[Technocrat]

@akkiben: I agree with veyron1 you misinterpreted my post, the Pulsar definetly has more feel to it & it takes some time to get used to the ZMA brakes which initially feel like drums but once you do get comfy then the Pulsar brakes feel dangerous :(

[devarshi84]

I like the braking on pulsar 180 which is really excellent if used correctly. The bike just stops then and there.I have also done stoppies on this bike several times. But if the bike is not in a stable stance the rider may get to smell ground and blood.

but I think it is same with all th disc brakes.

[veyron1]

but once you do get comfy then the Pulsar brakes feel dangerous

YEA, i know exactly what you're saying... try squeezing the pulsar's lever a'la the zma, and the tarmac will be having a black grin smothered on it... but i feel this can be overcome by one thing; fitting broader front tyres... in fact, the new tvs victor edge with alloys, sports a 90/90 R-17 tyres for the front, so the new dtsi owners can try fitting those...

merve, any plans..?? if you do fit the tyre, give a feedback- i bet it'll be helpful to many 150 and 180 Dtsi V2 owners...

p.s- for those interested in the math, the regular 2.75 R17 has a width of 69.85 mm; the 90/90 has a width of, well, 90 mm... so the jump in grip should be quite significant, which should aid the braking and handling; and since the rims don't need to be changed, you can go in for an outright tyre replacement...

[aseem]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

But i am not going to pay 10-15K more for 5% performance advantage.

Unfortunately this mentality and mindset of Indian janta, has led to most manufacturers not bringing any bikes like RD350 to India. Most buyers feel that if I am getting less average + I am shelling out more money just for some performance advantage is not worth it. Thats why most manufacturers are not serious about their bigger bikes.

[member]

yup, thats why 99% of the pulsars u see on the roads are 150cc
sad state of affairs of indian biking

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by aseem

Unfortunately this mentality and mindset of Indian janta, has led to most manufacturers not bringing any bikes like RD350 to India. Most buyers feel that if I am getting less average + I am shelling out more money just for some performance advantage is not worth it. Thats why most manufacturers are not serious about their bigger bikes.

FIY i own a P180 DTSI V2 and that in no way is a inferior performer to the ZMA.

Give me one reason why i should buy the ZMA with the inflated price tag over the P180,its not that ZMA is a 250cc V-twin with 40bhp,it offers nothing over the p180 except for the bigger bike type looks(which looks like an half hearted attempt).if it was a real performace machine,HH should have definately pulled out more than 20bhp from the zma's motor,it should have a 100/90 front tyre and 120/100 rear tyre and full fairing if nothing else.that is when i will buy the ZMA over the current P180.

secondly the reason manufactures dont bring powerful bikes here is because they are not practical enough.you cannot ride on a cbr 600 to the railway station or to your work,sitting a pillion will require huge effort and maintanence will be equal to a M800.this is not what indians will appreciate.in india bikes are basic means of transport(with some fun element provided to youngsters with slight performance bikes like zma or p180).so use your logic before reaching a conclusion why sport bikes are not here yet.

[devarshi84]

Originally Posted by aseem

Unfortunately this mentality and mindset of Indian janta, has led to most manufacturers not bringing any bikes like RD350 to India. Most buyers feel that if I am getting less average + I am shelling out more money just for some performance advantage is not worth it. Thats why most manufacturers are not serious about their bigger bikes.

lets not forget that the motorcycle scene in India started with 250cc yezdis, 350cc enfields and 175cc rajdoots. Add to these the rd350, ligtning 535, yezdi 350, BMW 750 etc. WE could have had more powerful bikes but the Indian conditions dont really suit big bikes.

Bikes in India are more meant for commuting and negotiating heavy traffic. Bikes in Europe and N.America are more meant for passion. If legally Available I see the same amount of Superbikes selling in India as in U.S. which are again not high. why would some1 want to buy a superbike for driving in the city where they cannot fulfill their passion. where its even tough to negotiate traffic. where will you satisfy your passion? this is what the Aam Indian Janta thinks.

Nowadays N.America has started seeing hatchbacks in dealerships which were not present until now. they are following the pattern which India has of selling bulk of hatchbacks. same goes for 2-wheelers. A 150cc mid-range or a 200cc(pulsar/karizma) has enough pep to satisfy enthusiasts in streetlight GP's. And those who want more power have access to Superbikes. Dont think we should have a litre class superbike trying to negotiate heavy traffic and returning car like FE.

A yamaha R1 costs around 15K Canadian which comes to 5-6lacs. In India you pay 7-8lacs for the same. Isnt it same differencefor toyota camry and Honda Accord? people still buy them.

[veyron1]

i disagree to the logic that India isn't ready for supersport/street bikes. if bentley can launch their 312 kmph flying spur for 1.5 crores and sell 12 units+ P.A, why can't yamaha launch R1 for 9 lacs and sell 100 units P.A..?? i think it's pretty much feasible, when you consider the fact that these are premium bikes, and manufacturers can rake in the same amount of margin by selling a single SBK, as compared to selling 50 economisers.

get this- profit margin alone isn't the game here; it's market growth. sure, we weren't ready for SBK's in the 80's, but that didn't stop yamaha from bringing the RD in, and neither did the failure of the RD stop hero motors from bringing in the F650 funduro, which, by the way, could've been THE ultimate bike for India; a 180 kmph+ bike that could glide over potholes at 100 miles an hour, could have been just what the doctor ordered. but sadly, the market wasn't mature enough then.

the question as to whether the Indian public is ready for SBK's can be answered by a simple logic- how many SBK showrooms existed in mumbai 10 years ago? i bet you could count them on your fingers. today, there are at least 50 dealers in mumbai selling half-legal or illegal sbk's. monthly sales for mumbai alone would be at least 100 units (including used SBK's). now tell me, isn't it high time that suzuki or yamaha capitalised on the 21st century post-dhoom indian era...? now don't tell me there aren't proper roads for these beasts; people who can shell out car-money for a bike can surely fork out a few hundred rupees extra for shooting out to the highway; these bikes are LEISURE bikes, and NOT commuter machines; if suzuki launched the busa, do you think it would eat into the sales of zma's or 180's..? that's because a 180 or zma owner would probably buy a busa for his occasional ride, and keep his bajaj or HH for daily commuting.

the ONLY reason preventing significant sales of SBK's in India are duty structures and service hassles. i'm sure there are MANY guys right here on tbhp who would shell out for a R1 or gixxer RIGHT NOW, if their respective companies were to launch them in India officially, with decent after-sales backup. and the heart of the matter is this simple rule; you need 12 crores to buy the world's fastest car; you only need 12 lacs to buy the world's fastest bike- and that's a pretty satisfying argument. even bmw has plans to bring in their range of SBK's by 2009; but that's too far away- the market is young and mature now, and like they say, the early bird catches the worm...

one thing is for sure, though; the demand for performance machines are only going to rise henceforth; and the release of dhoom2 this summer might only add fuel to fire....

[devarshi84]

Originally Posted by veyron1

i disagree to the logic that India isn't ready for supersport/street bikes. if bentley can launch their 312 kmph flying spur for 1.5 crores and sell 12 units+ P.A, why can't yamaha launch R1 for 9 lacs and sell 100 units P.A..?? i think it's pretty much feasible, when you consider the fact that these are premium bikes, and manufacturers can rake in the same amount of margin by selling a single SBK, as compared to selling 50 economisers.

get this- profit margin alone isn't the game here; it's market growth. sure, we weren't ready for SBK's in the 80's, but that didn't stop yamaha from bringing the RD in, and neither did the failure of the RD stop hero motors from bringing in the F650 funduro, which, by the way, could've been THE ultimate bike for India; a 180 kmph+ bike that could glide over potholes at 100 miles an hour, could have been just what the doctor ordered. but sadly, the market wasn't mature enough then.

the question as to whether the Indian public is ready for SBK's can be answered by a simple logic- how many SBK showrooms existed in mumbai 10 years ago? i bet you could count them on your fingers. today, there are at least 50 dealers in mumbai selling half-legal or illegal sbk's. monthly sales for mumbai alone would be at least 100 units (including used SBK's). now tell me, isn't it high time that suzuki or yamaha capitalised on the 21st century post-dhoom indian era...? now don't tell me there aren't proper roads for these beasts; people who can shell out car-money for a bike can surely fork out a few hundred rupees extra for shooting out to the highway; these bikes are LEISURE bikes, and NOT commuter machines; if suzuki launched the busa, do you think it would eat into the sales of zma's or 180's..? that's because a 180 or zma owner would probably buy a busa for his occasional ride, and keep his bajaj or HH for daily commuting.

the ONLY reason preventing significant sales of SBK's in India are duty structures and service hassles. i'm sure there are MANY guys right here on tbhp who would shell out for a R1 or gixxer RIGHT NOW, if their respective companies were to launch them in India officially, with decent after-sales backup. and the heart of the matter is this simple rule; you need 12 crores to buy the world's fastest car; you only need 12 lacs to buy the world's fastest bike- and that's a pretty satisfying argument. even bmw has plans to bring in their range of SBK's by 2009; but that's too far away- the market is young and mature now, and like they say, the early bird catches the worm...

one thing is for sure, though; the demand for performance machines are only going to rise henceforth; and the release of dhoom2 this summer might only add fuel to fire....

you have asnwered your own question. how did the imported cars sales start in India. it was through half legal or illegal means. Look at it today. Beemers have entered India officially. Bentleys and maybachs are available. the day is not far when Motorcycle manufacturers bring in the litre class and 600cc burners on our roads officially.

[veyron1]

@devarshi84: in case you hadn't noticed, i wasn't ASKING the question; i was making a point. and yes, the bikes WILL come in, EVENTUALLY; but the whole 9 yards go for just this SAME reasoning- we don't want the bikes EVENTUALLY, when the public gets tired of waiting for them; bigger, meaner machines are the need of the hour, and i was simply quoting that the sooner they get here, the better....

[aseem]

Originally Posted by veyron1

@devarshi84: in case you hadn't noticed, i wasn't ASKING the question; i was making a point. and yes, the bikes WILL come in, EVENTUALLY; but the whole 9 yards go for just this SAME reasoning- we don't want the bikes EVENTUALLY, when the public gets tired of waiting for them; bigger, meaner machines are the need of the hour, and i was simply quoting that the sooner they get here, the better....

Exactly my point. 5 years later, I will turn in to an uncle with a pot belly and kids on my lap, my biking days would be gone... I need a bike now

[member]

Originally Posted by aseem

Exactly my point. 5 years later, I will turn in to an uncle with a pot belly and kids on my lap, my biking days would be gone... I need a bike now

not necessarly... if u have the biking keeda in u, it will remain forever

[devarshi84]

Originally Posted by member

not necessarly... if u have the biking keeda in u, it will remain forever

I know exactly what Aseem is hinting at. I agree with him.