Team-BHP - 4th-gen Honda City : Official Review
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Quote:

Originally Posted by deepakv (Post 3671099)
OMG! Same issue since i got my SV MT iVTec mfd in March 2015 - 3rd service is also done and issue persists but its nothing much so i havent reported it.

I have a May 2014 iVTEC MT and do not have this issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adarsh76 (Post 3674327)
I had a talk again to SA today. Went to the service center to replace my horns for the second time, again under warranty.

As per SA, faulty suspensions will be replaced within the warranty period of 40,000 kms provided there is no change to the standard car tyre size.

The replaced suspensions will get warranty of another 40,000 kms again provided there is no change to the standard car tyre size.

We can opt for other aftermarket suspensions without affecting the warranty of the other parts of the car.

Adarsh,

Don't mean to drag this sub-topic too much, but I still don't think it will be easy to prove it to Honda or the Dealer that the Suspensions should be replaced under warranty and that the damage was not done due to bad driving / handling of car or bad roads.

Can some experts comment on this please? How many cases have we had where the suspension has been replaced by the manufacturer / dealer under warranty?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejas08 (Post 3674370)
Adarsh,

Don't mean to drag this sub-topic too much, but I still don't think it will be easy to prove it to Honda or the Dealer that the Suspensions should be replaced under warranty and that the damage was not done due to bad driving / handling of car or bad roads.

Can some experts comment on this please? How many cases have we had where the suspension has been replaced by the manufacturer / dealer under warranty?

Tejas, SA told me that suspensions will be replaced under warranty even if it is due to bad conditions of roads. I did ask it specifically. Warranty won't be covered if the damage is due to accidents which can cause due to bad handling of the vehicle. In that case, insurance can be opted. But even for insurance, I'm not sure if it will be covered if the standard package of the car is changed. I would check that later today.

SA said there were some cars whose suspensions were replaced under warranty. I did not ask how many or the details of the owners. Having the good relationship with SA, I do not think he gave a false statement. However, would try to check with some people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adarsh76 (Post 3674462)
Tejas, SA told me that suspensions will be replaced under warranty even if it is due to bad conditions of roads. I did ask it specifically. Warranty won't be covered if the damage is due to accidents which can cause due to bad handling of the vehicle. In that case, insurance can be opted. But even for insurance, I'm not sure if it will be covered if the standard package of the car is changed. I would check that later today.

SA said there were some cars whose suspensions were replaced under warranty. I did not ask how many or the details of the owners. Having the good relationship with SA, I do not think he gave a false statement. However, would try to check with some people.

I wouldn't just rely on the SA saying that suspensions would be replaced under warranty even if it due to bad roads. We have far too many threads on the forums where the Manufacturer / Dealer blame it on the driving style or Roads or Weather etc. for not giving any replacement. SA saying this right now is one thing but honoring at the time of need if a different thing as at that point the SA does not have any say. It is the Servicing team who handles these cases. Please do check with the Service Advisor if the SA you mean is the Sales assistant. If SA means Service Advisor then I would be happy but still be cautious as verbal statements really have not grounds later on.

You must have seen the Honda Amaze Engine Seized Thread:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...a-service.html

There are so many BHPians who can clearly see that this is not a Driver's fault. It clearly seems to be a manufacturing defect. Both the Manufacturer and Dealer are blaming it on the Owner and asking the owner to shell out 2.7 Lac Rs. There are many such cases on the forums. Hence, I am skeptical about warranty replacements of Suspensions as suspensions is one of the most Damage-Prone things based on how the car is handled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejas08 (Post 3674481)
I wouldn't just rely on the SA saying that suspensions would be replaced under warranty even if it due to bad roads. We have far too many threads on the forums where the Manufacturer / Dealer blame it on the driving style or Roads or Weather etc. for not giving any replacement. SA saying this right now is one thing but honoring at the time of need if a different thing as at that point the SA does not have any say. It is the Servicing team who handles these cases. Please do check with the Service Advisor if the SA you mean is the Sales assistant. If SA means Service Advisor then I would be happy but still be cautious as verbal statements really have not grounds later on.

You must have seen the Honda Amaze Engine Seized Thread:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...a-service.html

There are so many BHPians who can clearly see that this is not a Driver's fault. It clearly seems to be a manufacturing defect. Both the Manufacturer and Dealer are blaming it on the Owner and asking the owner to shell out 2.7 Lac Rs. There are many such cases on the forums. Hence, I am skeptical about warranty replacements of Suspensions as suspensions is one of the most Damage-Prone things based on how the car is handled.

Not Sales Assistant :). I never take the words of Sales Assistant. Even before buying the car, I'd a word with Service Advisor even though Sales Assistant explained almost everything. It is the Service Advisor who told me about the suspensions.

As said, I will try to get some concrete proof on what the SA told. In addition, there are many 2nd gen City's running on upgraded tyres and upgraded suspensions (Koni).

I have read the Amaze engine issue. Let's wait what Honda says final about this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adarsh76 (Post 3674327)
I had a talk again to SA today. Went to the service center to replace my horns for the second time, again under warranty.

As per SA, faulty suspensions will be replaced within the warranty period of 40,000 kms provided there is no change to the standard car tyre size.

The replaced suspensions will get warranty of another 40,000 kms again provided there is no change to the standard car tyre size.

We can opt for other aftermarket suspensions without affecting the warranty of the other parts of the car.

Fancy talk! Ask him to give this in writing. Also, ask him what exactly does 'faulty suspension' mean as per Honda.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain (Post 3675145)
Fancy talk! Ask him to give this in writing. Also, ask him what exactly does 'faulty suspension' mean as per Honda.

:) I do not think anybody can give in writing. Yes did ask that yesterday evening. Faulty suspension means if there is any leakage or breakage in suspension and suspensions becoming hard. Unless and until these are not caused by accidents due to impacts and if the car is riding on standard size tyres, it will be replaced under warranty. Well, I guess this depends on the dealership. There are a few dealerships not just Honda's where this can be an issue.

SA was not discouraging me to up size tyres since I complained of grip levels at moderate to sharp turns in speeds above 50/60 km/h. But, was saying there were quite a few cars which had to change suspensions that had upsized tyres. Considering the roads in Kerala, I think what he said should be true.

I guess, people who are willing to forego the suspensions warranty and driving often at high speeds should upsize tyres for the City. If not, then stick to stock tyres.

Malaysian models of Honda City come with wider tyres but I am not sure they have beefed up suspension to support that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by outdoorlover (Post 3675899)
Malaysian models of Honda City come with wider tyres but I am not sure they have beefed up suspension to support that.

Adarsh76 / Outdoorlover

Lets go about this logically.

How much weight difference do you think is there between a 175/65 R15 & a 195/60 R15?

I could not find data to back myself up but going by my gut feeling / Professional experience related to other engineering things (We sometimes need to go with our previous experiences in my field), the difference in weights of the tyres will not be more than 5-6 Kg per tyre.

Now look at it from this point of view where the car is fully loaded (5 Persons with luggage). Do you think Honda has calculated the weight carrying capacity based on 60 Kg per person weight and say 100 Kg of luggage in boot or have they calculated based on 100 Kg per person weight and 250 KG of luggage in boot.

The point I am trying to express here is the weight difference between the 175/65 & 195/60 profile tyres is negligible to make any impact on the suspensions. Sorry for not being able to put this in a more clear manner. I am not fully able to express what I want to. stupid:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejas08 (Post 3675974)
Now look at it from this point of view where the car is fully loaded (5 Persons with luggage). Do you think Honda has calculated the weight carrying capacity based on 60 Kg per person weight and say 100 Kg of luggage in boot or have they calculated based on 100 Kg per person weight and 250 KG of luggage in boot:


What you are referring to is the sprung weight of the car, while tyres contribute to the unsprung weight- and therefore the effects on suspension behaviour is totally different. Unsprung weight is usually considered a lot worse than sprung weight in terms of suspension damages.

However, i do agree with you that it doesn't make a big difference in this particular scenario. A wider tyre on alloy wheels might even be lighter than the steel wheels on the lesser variants for which the suspension is already designed for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejas08 (Post 3675974)
Adarsh76 / Outdoorlover

I could not find data to back myself up but going by my gut feeling / Professional experience related to other engineering things (We sometimes need to go with our previous experiences in my field), the difference in weights of the tyres will not be more than 5-6 Kg per tyre.


Agree with you. It will not make any difference with a wider tyre and alloy wheels. But i dont think the difference will be 5kgs per tyre either. When width increases, you are obviously going to use a narrow side wall. It may not be 5kgs. Will be much much lesser than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejas08 (Post 3675974)
Adarsh76 / Outdoorlover

Lets go about this logically.

How much weight difference do you think is there between a 175/65 R15 & a 195/60 R15?

I could not find data to back myself up but going by my gut feeling / Professional experience related to other engineering things (We sometimes need to go with our previous experiences in my field), the difference in weights of the tyres will not be more than 5-6 Kg per tyre.

Now look at it from this point of view where the car is fully loaded (5 Persons with luggage). Do you think Honda has calculated the weight carrying capacity based on 60 Kg per person weight and say 100 Kg of luggage in boot or have they calculated based on 100 Kg per person weight and 250 KG of luggage in boot.

The point I am trying to express here is the weight difference between the 175/65 & 195/60 profile tyres is negligible to make any impact on the suspensions. Sorry for not being able to put this in a more clear manner. I am not fully able to express what I want to. stupid:

Thanks Tejas. Probably you are right. I am no expert, so when a Service Advisor says this with examples, people like me can get a bit confused. But, from my heart I want to really up size the tyres but at this point of time due to other reasons I am not willing to play with the warranty.

The Malaysian and other Non Indian models run on 185/55 R16 tyres and alloys. I did shoot a question to Honda whether I could use these tyres, but the reply was just a standard one. They were saying the stock tyres were tested under Indian conditions and proven so so so...

Quote:

Originally Posted by adarsh76 (Post 3676012)
Thanks Tejas. Probably you are right. I am no expert, so when a Service Advisor says this with examples, people like me can get a bit confused. But, from my heart I want to really up size the tyres but at this point of time due to other reasons I am not willing to play with the warranty.

The Malaysian and other Non Indian models run on 185/55 R16 tyres and alloys. I did shoot a question to Honda whether I could use these tyres, but the reply was just a standard one. They were saying the stock tyres were tested under Indian conditions and proven so so so...

Just read this article.

http://www.zigwheels.com/guide/four-...ng-tyres/8430/

The below statement is encouraging :)

Manufacturers do leave room in the wheel well for a calculated upsizing of tyres and wheels on their cars. This is done so that owners can upsize the tyre and wheel size to increase performance and or increase traction on different road conditions.

Mods: I tried to multiquote this. But did not work out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddikt (Post 3675985)
... But i dont think the difference will be 5kgs per tyre either. When width increases, you are obviously going to use a narrow side wall. It may not be 5kgs. Will be much much lesser than that.

In this particular case tyre width is almost the same. The tyre side wall width difference between 175/65/15 and 190/60/15 would be just 0.25 mm which is negligible.
The weight difference after upsizing should minor and should be offset by the lighter weight of the alloys.

Also its better to go for Silica based tyres while upsizing, these tend to have about 25% less rolling resistance compared to factory fitted conventional tyres. Lower rolling resistance tranlates to higher fuel efficiency and would offset any significant fuel efficiency reduction after upsizing to 195/50/15

I remember the SA telling that in addition to suspension warranty, upsizing the tyre/rim would also void the power steering warranty.
If Honda/other manufacturers claim that upsizing can affect suspension , handling, braking etc, there must be some truth in what they are claiming. But the effects will be negligible if the upgrade is from 175/65 to 195/60.

I'll definitely consider upsizing to 196/60 after the 4 year warranty period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by for_cars1 (Post 3676100)
I'll definitely consider upsizing to 196/60 after the 4 year warranty period.

Appreciate your patience :thumbs up

I went straight to the Tyre Garage from the Showroom and upgraded to 195/60R15. Have completed 18,500 kms so far and no issues...

Before I did this, I called all three Honda Dealers in Bangalore and finally one guy in Whitefield Honda said there wont be any issues - so went ahead. Both Dakshin and Magnum Service Centers fully discouraged making any form of tyre upgrade.


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