[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by coldice4u

As the market has slowly moved towards petrol, it becomes apparent that TATA does not have a competent petrol engine in its stable. The 1.2 petrol in ZEST is not efficient, no matter how you put it. May be its the weight of the cars, but its FE is atrocious in B2B traffic. And in the segment where the Tigor/Tiago twins are playing in, low fuel efficiency will just kill the cars, just look what happened to the Palio. And once a car is declared fuel a guzzler by the junta, you cannot recover from it.

Absolutely true. I'm really disappointed that TML with its global technology centers cannot make a simple 1.2L 4Cyl power unit. Absolutely everyone is making it - with identical output numbers. If nothing is doable just copy one for Christ's sake!

For ages TML did NOT go the 3 Cyl way & kept on making 4 Cyl engines. I liked that. Maybe it was simply because of lack of expertise perhaps, but whatever.

Going the 3Cyl way in a make-or-break product entry was certainly a big gamble. All others in the segment are offering refinement. No matter what you do, a 3Cyl mill can't match that of a 4 Cyl engine. Is this gamble worth it?

Whats shocking is, there doesn't seem to be any plan for a 1.2 4Cyl engine other than the inefficient one in Zest at all.
So in the most competitive & volume selling engine category - there is practically no real challenge from TML at all. A walkover of sorts!

Maybe they'll make a 1.5 for the Nexon Petrol, but I have not heard anything much about it. And that becomes a premium engine. It cannot be & should not be put in any entry level cars also. Takes away the premium quotient of your top of the line product.

[Palio_2005]

I don't understand this issue of 3 cyl and 4 cyl and why is the world crying themselves hoarse about it. Even the Polo started with 3 cylinder ones!!! Heck they still offer the petrol in a 3 cylinder pot... As long as the car is smooth and doesn't sound too hoarse, I really don't understand the issue here...

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by Palio_2005

I don't understand this issue of 3 cyl and 4 cyl and why is the world crying themselves hoarse about it. Even the Polo started with 3 cylinder ones!!! Heck they still offer the petrol in a 3 cylinder pot... As long as the car is smooth and doesn't sound too hoarse, I really don't understand the issue here...

There's no issue there. At least not in the eyes of a common man who will contribute to 99% of the car's sales. I would even challenge people to try out the cars blind folded and make out whether its 3 pot or 4. I bet most of us (including me) can't make out.

If I were Tata, I wouldn't give so much importance to the complaints made here about the engine and lack of power. Like being said on the other thread, what this forum voted as car of the year are hardly best sellers.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Palio_2005

I don't understand this issue of 3 cyl and 4 cyl and why is the world crying themselves hoarse about it. Even the Polo started with 3 cylinder ones!!! Heck they still offer the petrol in a 3 cylinder pot... As long as the car is smooth and doesn't sound too hoarse, I really don't understand the issue here...

Believe you are talking of the TSI motor. Even Ford Ecoboost, Maruti Boosterjet, K10 series are all three cylinder engines. And people don't complain because it makes up for the refinement in parameters like power and torque.

And when the reviews say poor - you see its often comments like "There is a distinct three cylinder thrum at idle" etc.

Not like "At mid-level rpms, a very throaty sound filters through - it's almost diesel-like!" and "Even at idle, you can feel vibrations on the seat, steering wheel, pedals and gear lever." etc written for Tigor and Tiago reviews.

Issue here is that the Tigor engine offers nothing. It is mediocre all around, and then extremely poor in refinement. Their own three cylinder diesel version outperforms the petrol in terms of refinement and that is quite something!

Performance is mediocre with no highway performance to speak of above 100, and only redeeming factor being driveability.

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

I would even challenge people to try out the cars blind folded and make out whether its 3 pot or 4.

A better game would be to put people in the Tiago / Tigor petrol blindfolded and ask them to make out if it's a petrol or diesel.

[AkMar]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Believe you are talking of the TSI motor. Even Ford Ecoboost, Maruti Boosterjet, K10 series are all three cylinder engines. And people don't complain because it makes up for the refinement in parameters like power and torque.

I think he is talking of the regular variants of Polo which get 1.2 L 3 cylinder engine. TSI is a 4 cylinder motor.

[keeprevving]

Going by today's 3 cly engine NVH standards, TML has to bring down the clutter in Tigor and Tiago as well. It is seriously disappointing, at least to me. Another area where TML needs to work on is petrol engine's mileage in B2B traffic. Someone rightly said, once your engines are termed gas-guzzlers, it is difficult to change the perception.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by Palio_2005

I don't understand this issue of 3 cyl and 4 cyl and why is the world crying themselves hoarse about it. Even the Polo started with 3 cylinder ones!!! Heck they still offer the petrol in a 3 cylinder pot... As long as the car is smooth and doesn't sound too hoarse, I really don't understand the issue here...

Exactly - and trust me, the POLO 1.2 NA Petrol with 3 pots, sounds almost like a nano at idle & exactly like nano when revved to get moving from a signal. Replace the nano with Force Minodor pick-up for the original 1.2L 3 pot diesel Polo. I'm exaggerating of course - but when one pays a premium price for a VW - the product quality has to justify the premium.

They didn't sell this car in big numbers if you check. VW can afford it. They can then launch a 1.5 TDI / 1.2 TSI to cover the market share gap.

TML has no cards left to draw! This is their ace. And I really wish very well for TML. I pray that the Tigor sells a lot. I love the car for everything else.

Whats dangerous then is, the moment this car sells in big volumes, the other players will start replacing 4 cyl with 3...Thats my worst nightmare coming true

In addition to the engines, the biggest problem is - Consistently over last 20 years TML is launching products that never exactly fit 1:1 in the established segments. They always fall in the "neither here - nore there" no man's land. Check the official new car reviews here on TBHP also. In the comparison table, hardly will you find a TML car that makes sense.

Now here we have a Tigor that will get compared with the established CS segment cars - all with extremely competent engines. The price difference will be ignored...And the people who take a test ride - will come out saying "okay this was not fun to drive off the blocks...". There is absolutely no doubt about that.

What is the target customer base? The young generation? For them the car must be fun. Thats one of the primary USPs of the i10 & Swift still selling big volumes. Peppy engines, slick gearboxes. If the Harman ICE was going to do it all, MSIL won't ever be the #1 car maker in the country.

[uthra]

We have a Tigor. My husband drives it. In bumper-2-bumper traffic everyday. Been around 1800km so far. He is not a racing enthusiast but sure can, like anyone else, differentiate between a good, decent and mediocre drive. Coming from a Chevrolet UVA, the driving off the blocks feels just a teeny bit lethargic. But then it's all good. Driving across the NCR, we have overtaken even the likes of Polo and Figo, and definitely Grand10s and even a few i20s. I am not saying it's a great car but these are the options in the same price bracket and, driving smartly, Tigor is not exactly the laggard it is being made out to be. We are yet to hit the highways, though, and will get to know that performance later. All in all, it feels a good, solid car. Having gone through this entire thread, I am unable to understand the repeated battering of weak engine. And I drive a swift petrol, considered pretty peppy, and I have driven the Tigor as well now, and it definitely is not a whiner as claimed by many people.

[Nissan1180]

Originally Posted by uthra

And I drive a swift petrol, considered pretty peppy, and I have driven the Tigor as well now, and it definitely is not a whiner as claimed by many people.

Well said! While the power could have been better, I felt that it is good enough for what it is meant for. People have no issues driving the Toyota Etios that has a 69 BhP diesel, so the Tigor is definitely better. It feels very premium inside, and leagues ahead of what the old generation Dzire had to offer.
How many of us do drag races any way?
Even on the highway, it is just that the driver may have to downshift in extreme situations, but that is true for most cars in the segment.
The Tigor is a very good value proposition and I hope the market accepts it well.

[uthra]

Originally Posted by Nissan1180

It feels very premium inside, and leagues ahead of what the old generation Dzire had to offer. How many of us do drag races any way?

Exactly. Not just drag racing, unless it is someone who goes on long drives on highways every weekend or so, and loves to rev it up all the way, how many actually redline their cars? In any case, going above 100kph is not considered either legal or safe. And Tigor goes beyond that nicely. Even Swift I have to downshift occasionally while climbing the numerous flyovers in Delhi when driving with the AC on. Tigor does the same job in the same gear as Swift. And it feels so much more premium inside. Definitely better than the previous gen Dzire or the Xcent. And the build feels so much better.

In Swift, as in the Santro or any MSIL car, simply parked on one side I feel the car wobbling and shuddering every time a bus or a truck or even a mini-truck passes. it's that flimsy. And the NVH past 60kph isnt exactly something that gives you confidence.

Somehow, despite all the proclamations of "I really want TML to do well" I feel that TATA cars are held up and measured against a different yardstick than some of the other makes.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by uthra

We have a Tigor. My husband drives it. In bumper-2-bumper traffic everyday. Been around 1800km so far.

Coming from a Chevrolet UVA, the driving off the blocks feels just a teeny bit lethargic.

We are yet to hit the highways, though, and will get to know that performance later.

Would love to hear your feedback once the car covers some good trips on the highway. Bumper to bumper can hardly stress any engine, and infact - good driveability (city conditions) is one of the positives of the engine. Both petrol and diesel variants.

Originally Posted by Nissan1180

People have no issues driving the Toyota Etios that has a 69 BhP diesel, so the Tigor is definitely better.

Ahem! Comparing one number alone doesn't show the full picture. Compare with all the below figures of the Tigor diesel below, since you have taken Etios diesel figures in comparison.

Power to weight
Etios - 68 Bhp / ton
Tigor - 63 Bhp / ton

Torque to weight
Etios - 169 Nm/ ton
Tigor - 127 Nm/ ton.

The last two figures, along with the additional cylinder and displacement make all the difference if we compare between these two.

[RavenAvi]

Birdies are chirping that 2 Tigor AMTs have rolled out of the production lines so far, and both are possibly lined up for testing purposes.

This can only mean that the AMT version(s) of the Tigor are quite some time away from an actual launch.

If we are lucky, they might come in by end-2017, else a 2018 launch seems more likely.

[PraNeel]

There are some views which point out that we shouldn't bash Tigor for weak engine, as most of the time is spent in city and we don't do drag races. Going by that logic then Ciaz shouldn't be bashed for it's engines. Both the engines are good for day to day commute. Same for other cars like Punto.
IMO a weakness is weakness and there are no two points about it. Some people may find it OK and their choice and preferences are respected, but it is the sales numbers which depict the success or failure of a car. The monthly sales numbers will confirm that shortly.

[petrolhead_chn]

The OTR price of Tigor XZ(o) post GST is 7,13,000/- (Pre GST prices were 7,47,000/-).
The prices are for petrol cars in Chennai and include additional warranty, mats and AMC. The top end at this price sounds just great. The XT now comes at 6,27,000/- while it was 6,59,000/-

[skyrocket003]

Originally Posted by petrolhead_chn

The OTR price of Tigor XZ(o) post GST is 7,13,000/- (Pre GST prices were 7,47,000/-).
The prices are for petrol cars in Chennai and include additional warranty, mats and AMC. The top end at this price sounds just great. The XT now comes at 6,27,000/- while it was 6,59,000/-

Those are really sweet prices and honestly, I would have really considered a petrol XT for my ride. Why I cannot get it now is for 2 major reasons:

1. Already got a car in Dec-16. (was really having trouble managing on public transport from Delhi to Noida everyday)
2. Even if the Tigor was available at this price in Dec, I am pretty sure wifey would disapprove it only for the brand Tata. She insisted we get nothing less than a Polo and I settled only for that.