[d3mon]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

Anyone dreaming of this 1.5L mill on a little heavier/safer Swift? Should be one hoot to drive. Instead of the sticker editions, Maruti should consider plonking this engine and launching as Swift RS!

I started dreaming for a second, but then remembered that the Figo 1.5D already exists

Jokes apart, I drove the Ciaz 1.5D recently and it was extremely impressive. Plenty of torque available from low down, free revving and superb NVH levels. This would be a lot of fun with a dieseltronic box, even if remaps are not available yet.

[bigron]

Also took a test drive of the 1.5D Ciaz . I think it picks up well from where the 1.3 is leaving.
Sure it could make more power and have more torque specially in the mid range but overall its an impressive engine. A workhorse if you may. The low NVH levels are a pleasant surprise.
If its any where as reliable as the older 1.3 we may have an engine that will find its way in a lot many cars.

[torquecurve]

Originally Posted by blackwasp

What you'll like:
......
GTO. Thanks to him for the expert observations![/i]
[

Great review, especially considering it is the first purely engine based review. While it is a great review, I do have a few observations.
1 - It would have been great to compare this engine with other 1.5's in the market instead of the cars comparison (Ciaz vs others). This will allow for a proper engine review as there are competent 1.5's that are not in the CS/Sedan segment otherwise.
2 - We are comparing this engine to the 1.3MJD - and not the real comparison. It is like comparing a Pentium to a Corei5. They are literally different architecture based.
3 - This review, and I request you to take this with a large helping of salt, is somewhat 'biased' and almost fanboyish towards Suzuki. Almost like applauding them for giving something that they should have done years ago as if they have done us a favor. Maybe this is just my feeling but I am putting it out there.

For me, the benchmark has been diesels' from the VW stable, followed by Tata, Ford, and Hyundai. The only reason for keeping Hyundai behind here is the extra 100cc or I would say it is the best operator of the lot. It would be great if we could do an Engine comparison (Keeping Gearboxes as a separate).

[Lambydude]

Originally Posted by torquecurve

3 - This review, and I request you to take this with a large helping of salt, is somewhat 'biased' and almost fanboyish towards Suzuki. Almost like applauding them for giving something that they should have done years ago as if they have done us a favor. Maybe this is just my feeling but I am putting it out there.
).

Couldn't agree more. Yes, i could also see a bit of "Maruti fanboyism" in many comments.
However, even though they are late by many years, they are still not on par with competition.

In my opinion, by limiting the power to 94 BHP, they are ensuring better fuel efficiency so that Ciaz becomes a taxi segment favourite

[SID2997]

94 bhp out of this landmark engine is a joke.It would only act as a people lugger in vehicles such as the Vitara Brezza.

[searacer932]

Originally Posted by torquecurve

2 - We are comparing this engine to the 1.3MJD - and not the real comparison. It is like comparing a Pentium to a Corei5. They are literally different architecture based.

Originally Posted by Lambydude

Couldn't agree more. Yes, i could also see a bit of "Maruti fanboyism" in many comments.

Agree with both of you. The review is quite good on its own. However the review seems more like a comparison of Suzuki's 1.5 DDiS with Fiat's 1.3 MJD. The reviewers seem to say that Suzuki's 1.5 DDiS is better than Fiat's 1.3 MJD and to be fair this conclusion was quite expected as Fiat's 1.3 MJD is an 1.5 decade old engine.

An apt comparison would have been with the other 1.5/1.6 engines in the market. How does this engine compare with respect to even the recent entrants such as TATA's 1.5 Revotorq & Mahindra's 1.5 diesel engine that's powering Marrazo and XUV3OO.

Alas, the review does not get into the depths of that subject at all.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by torquecurve

This review, and I request you to take this with a large helping of salt, is somewhat 'biased' and almost fanboyish towards Suzuki.

Originally Posted by Lambydude

Couldn't agree more. Yes, i could also see a bit of "Maruti fanboyism" in many comments.

Feedback noted guys. However, do note:

1. The engine left a great impression on us.

2. Whatever disadvantages to the motor are there, they have been clearly listed in the opening post.

3. Comparisons to the 1.3L are inevitable. Read my Innova Crysta review and see how many comparisons are there to the old Innova.

4. I can GUARANTEE not a single 1.5L diesel owner will disagree with any of our points.

5. One really cannot compare a product to 10 competitors in a review. However, we have compared it to the segment-best (Hyundai 1.6L) and categorically stated that the 1.6L is better in many areas (power, refinement).

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by GTO

4. I can GUARANTEE not a single 1.5L diesel owner will disagree with any of our points.

I can vouch for this. It was only co-incidental that I ended up driving the 1.5 liter Diesel mill equipped Ertiga and when I read the reviews here, I was glad to realise that it nearly matches every aspect that is mentioned by the official reviewer(s).

And yes, I would always compare the 1.5 with the 1.3 only because it is essentially a same (or little different) car with an all new Engine and what immediately comes to my mind is how is this any better than the 1.3 engine.

One of them was of course this which I couldn't help but mention because it matters a lot to talk about what gets better than the 1.3:

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Turbo Lag:

Well, there is no escape from it even with this engine. However, as a driver, the moment you start feeling about this lag and wait for those RPMs to just reach the Turbo zone as it is the case with the 1.3 MJD, there is this nice pull that makes you forget about it. Honestly, this is what I felt taking on at least 100+ plus speedbreakers on so many diversions as part of a highway that is undergoing 6 lane work. In short, there is Turbo Lag but the extent of it is controlled in a better manner compared to its predecessor 1.3L Engine.

I have no qualms to say this again that the 1.5 liter engine is indeed brilliant and refined and much more driveable. However, It still cannot be compared to Hyundai's 1.6 because it lacks that PUNCH factor and scores little lower when it comes to refinement levels against the Hyundai too but having said that, this 1.5 L engine is not the one you would dislike because it performs better than 1.3L and in a silent and more refined manner and having driven the Amaze and City Diesels, I would rate this above that.

[Reinhard]

What I'd like to see in upcoming reviews is a comparison of all similarly spec'ed engines. So come BS6, a detailed comparison between -
1. Suzuki 1.5 DDiS (If they ever manage to make it BS6 ready)
2. Tata 1.5 Revotorq
3. Honda 1.5 Earth Dreams
4. Upcoming Hyundai 1.5 CRDi (KIA already using it with Seltos)
5. Mahindra 1.5 CRDe - by the way, whats the "m-<Bird>" name for this one?
6. Ford 1.5 TDCi
7. Renault 1.5 K9K - This probably will get dropped as they are not yet able to make it BS6 ready!
And any more.

It would be interesting especially if we could somehow source the dyno-test figures and torque-power curve graphs. Would really show how these are designed, what are the USPs and who should pick which one. I know I'm asking for a bit too much. But on this forum must wishes get granted.

Originally Posted by torquecurve

For me, the benchmark has been diesels' from the VW stable, followed by Tata, Ford, and Hyundai. The only reason for keeping Hyundai behind here is the extra 100cc or I would say it is the best operator of the lot. It would be great if we could do an Engine comparison (Keeping Gearboxes as a separate).

And Mahindra! They surely make wonderful diesel engines for a wide spread of applications from people carriers (2.6CRDe/M2Di) to powerful SUVs (mHawk2.2). Afterwards they frequently waste those engines by making dynamically inferior cars is a different matter. (Even that is changing off late!). They have surely beaten the previous king of Indian diesels (Tata) squarely over last decade in diesel engine R&D.

I'm glad that the car makers are ready to invest in making the engines eco friendly with BS6 & are not simply dropping the diesels altogether. Try as they might, petrols can't have the low end torque & FE of a small turbo diesel at low rpms. I don't like the idea of making cars light weight to get better FE from petrol engines instead.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by torquecurve

3 - This review, and I request you to take this with a large helping of salt, is somewhat 'biased' and almost fanboyish towards Suzuki. Almost like applauding them for giving something that they should have done years ago as if they have done us a favor. Maybe this is just my feeling but I am putting it out there.

Understood. Even many Maruti fanboys couldn't believe that a "Diesel-starter" like Maruti could come up with an engine which is best suited for Indians in a way better than many long-term players like Tata, VW and M&M do. So the story of others is better untold.

The main reason for this unbelief is that the expectation was very low after the Celerio Diesel debacle, and the fact that the Celerio Diesel and this one are poles apart.

[GTO]

Guys, enough with the off-topic posts. Now let the thread get back to discussing the engine itself. Thank you.

[romeomidhun]

Another review which is almost inline with the Team-BHP review: https://www.autocarindia.com/car-rev...ad-test-413612

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

Another review which is almost inline with the Team-BHP review: https://www.autocarindia.com/car-rev...ad-test-413612

The 20-80 figure of 4.86 seconds in 3rd gear is insanely good in my view, almost like an automatic. Whats amazing is this effort having better NVH than Honda's 1.5 effort. A slightly detuned version of this engine should find its way into smaller cars and Brezza, S-Cross should have same or higher outputs. However, its a wonder why no Automatic transmission is on offer given the fact that that Suzuki now has access to Toyota's wider powertain portfolio. What can be additional cost of Dual Mass Flyweel replacement as compared to a single one ? Maruti even with the increased maintenance costs comes at near bottom of the pack for overall maintenance IMO. Cabbies opting for Ertiga 1.5 diesel will definitely complain for higher maintenance and obviously their base would be outgoing 1.3. Gearing in 6th is so tall in Ciaz, one has to be doing 90 kmph plus to have 1700 rpm plus. Good for expressways but not so good for single lane highways where repeated gearshifts are required. Maruti is famous for high gearing, be it Esteem MPFI, Baleno 1.6 or the Caiz 1.5 diesel, no doubt it helps fuel economy but the 6th cog for Ciaz could have been a bit lower.

[rakesh_r]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

What I'd like to see in upcoming reviews is a comparison of all similarly spec'ed engines. So come BS6, a detailed comparison between -
1. Suzuki 1.5 DDiS (If they ever manage to make it BS6 ready)
2. Tata 1.5 Revotorq
3. Honda 1.5 Earth Dreams
4. Upcoming Hyundai 1.5 CRDi (KIA already using it with Seltos)
5. Mahindra 1.5 CRDe - by the way, whats the "m-<Bird>" name for this one?
6. Ford 1.5 TDCi
7. Renault 1.5 K9K - This probably will get dropped as they are not yet able to make it BS6 ready!

Nice bunch for the comparison.The TDCi and K9K are old skool engines (read- reliable) and simple in construction (read-SOHC). Honda Earth dreams engine is a tractable and practical engine but sounds like a tractor. I haven't driven the new 1.5 DDiS but have heard the engine on Idle and must say, Maruti has really managed to keep the NVH under control, quiet commendable considering this is Suzuki's first in-house Diesel Engine. Sometimes I feel my SCross sounds like a tractor.
Hope the engine proves to be reliable on the long run.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by rakesh_r

Nice bunch for the comparison.The TDCi and K9K are old skool engines (read- reliable) and simple in construction (read-SOHC). Honda Earth dreams engine is a tractable and practical engine but sounds like a tractor. I haven't driven the new 1.5 DDiS but have heard the engine on Idle and must say, Maruti has really managed to keep the NVH under control, quiet commendable considering this is Suzuki's first in-house Diesel Engine. Sometimes I feel my SCross sounds like a tractor.
Hope the engine proves to be reliable on the long run.

Indeed - the 1.5 DDiS sure is a smooth mill. For the ears I think its this DDiS and the 1.5 TDCi that are currently the most musical. Their idle clatter is really soft and pleasant. The 1.3 MJD and 1.5 Earth Dreams actually sound as if some nut-bolts are lose inside the block and are being kicked around by the pistons!

I'm sure Suzuki has given top most priority to reliability in this engine. The conservative compression ratios are a hint towards that. Could have easily been a bit more aggressive with the compression ratios, turbo capacity to extract power and torque figures that are on par with contemporaries with same displacement. I guess they were not too convinved about higher compression ratios without a cast iron block (This engine uses an all aluminimum construction for light weight).

I wish this engine made it to the Brezza really soon. It could make the biggest difference to that car's manners in city. Its really cumbursome in city with the 1.3 MJD and if there is 1 weak link in this otherwise rock solid car package - its the city drivability.

Lets see!