Fiat Grande Punto : Test Drive & Review

JVH · 5th August 2009, 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

the swift petes box on the punto will do harm. even speaking raw truth, the petes boxes which do rail pressure modulation will do harm on any vehicle.

The statement is vague. Clarification and facts please!

VahanPujari · 5th August 2009, 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabloo

You caught the wrong stick. The correct response to post is below.

Thanks for clarifying.
Typically one posts his response below the quoted post & hence thought so earlier.

arethusa · 5th August 2009, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbhiJ

Great review GTO.

Was waiting to hear you point of view.

Now only if I can gather enough trust in Tata/Fiat service to sign the cheque...

================================================== ======
I have been a fiat palio owner for seven ears n now own a linea....trust me, a visit to the service centre had me pleasantly surprised! Though nothing to write home about, it is leagues ahead of the original fiat service and any day acceptable to be a fiat owner.

diabloo · 5th August 2009, 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

Thanks for clarifying.
Typically one posts his response below the quoted post & hence thought so earlier.

Thanks for pointing out the incovenience - I will follow this convention henceforth.

sunishsamuel · 5th August 2009, 15:54

After reading the review here, suggested dad to pick punto emotion pack which he promptly did. He is extremely happy with the performance and last week i got a chance to drive it.

Likes

- It looks cute, like a smiling cute mouse or a bunny from the front.
- moves superb, release the clutch and car takes off. Throttle response is amazing.
- The quality is great, no squeaks and rattle after 2k kms.
- Mileage seems to be the attractive factor for my family, and seems it gives decent mileage (around 16.5kmpl in city with ac) did not test much.
- The car speakers are awesome, nice clarity (my bro tells its some 6 speakers inbuilt ?)
- ride is too good with four medium size people.
- General quality is good atleast for now.
- Rides well even at 40kmph at 5th gear.

Dislikes

- hate the driving posture, may be because i have a safari and used to it. I can't see anything outside about the bonnet, it scares me.
- With four heavy weights in the car, the car seems to have a problem when covering small pot holes and bumps, looks the tyre touches the body and makes a light thud sound ? Or is that something else ?

harry10 · 5th August 2009, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar

I guess your decision is almost done. I just did not want you to be disappointed after getting a Punto

Yeah .. and do test drive the i20 crdi.

Just a word of caution about Pete though : even if you Pete a new car, I guess it would be wise to not share that information publicly or on any of the TBHP forums. (for that matter any internet forum) You never know someone from Fiat might be reading it, and god forbid, if there is any problem with your new car, they might cancel the warranty (even if the problem has got nothing to with Pete)

Look forward to seeing your Electric Blue Punto MJD E+

Really appreciate the concern.
99% i am not disappointed by my decison as i do a thorough research and then test the product myself so i am hoping this also turns out to be a bright idea.
Also Punto is fine for my needs.

I do agree with you regarding the Pete's thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpzen

It will definitely make the engine even noisier.
Hopefully, it should revive the dead 1st and 2nd gear.

I'll take your word for that KP as i know you have pete's in your getz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

the swift petes box on the punto will do harm. even speaking raw truth, the petes boxes which do rail pressure modulation will do harm on any vehicle.

I don't think it will be swift's petes box which will be there for punto.
It should be a different one made for punto itself.
Any more info on this?

GTO · 5th August 2009, 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by JVH

The statement is vague. Clarification and facts please!

Related thread. Tons of information in there.

~~VinZ~~ · 5th August 2009, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry10

Really appreciate the concern.
99% i am not disappointed by my decison as i do a thorough research and then test the product myself so i am hoping this also turns out to be a bright idea.
Also Punto is fine for my needs.

Looks like you are going with petes or are you already?

I am waiting for some feedback on the petes in pinto

harry10 · 5th August 2009, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~~VinZ~~

Looks like you are going with petes or are you already?

I am waiting for some feedback on the petes in pinto

I haven't even booked it yet

@GTO- thanks for the link!

.anshuman · 5th August 2009, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar

Just a word of caution about Pete though : even if you Pete a new car, I guess it would be wise to not share that information publicly or on any of the TBHP forums. (for that matter any internet forum) You never know someone from Fiat might be reading it, and god forbid, if there is any problem with your new car, they might cancel the warranty (even if the problem has got nothing to with Pete)

:

I dont think fiat has enough time to track every car,they would rather concentrate on selling cars.

Thomas8700 · 5th August 2009, 20:48

@harry10

as per vinz post . the box was for swift hence the statement.

ok since this is the sole thread for the punto .

i will be specific as to why the box is not a good idea.

the punto is tuned for mileage and also the turbo is also tuned in such a manner.

first up a disclaimer.

i am not interested in promoting any brands. and in no way i am affiliated with anything or anyone.

how i know about this is from batch mates who are working in this specific industry.

the box for the swift works on the principle of altering the rail pressure map through a bypass route which consists of another small ecu. which has the altered rail pressure map.( it emulates the required signals well enough that the original ECU can never make out the rail pressure signal has been changed. it still remains within specified voltage ranges. )

the map is the rpm/rail pressure map.

i.e for a specific rpm this much rail pressure should be maintained.( based on rail pressure, injections are taken care by the ECU with other inputs) say the upper limit is 1300bar and lower limit is 800bar ( these are approximations) the normal settings.

the box alters the map such that lower limit to higher limit transition is more faster and linear at same time. hence the result is even at lower rpms the rail operates in a higher pressure. hence leading to increased injections which in turn causes the lower end torque to increase and hence increase the drivability at higher gears.

mileage is improved since due to availability of better low end, people drive in higher gears most of the time hence the mileage increases. in most cases the car will be drivable in city and even inclines in higher gears 4th and even 5th!!

and yes the injection of more diesel in the lower rpms essentially leads to power/torque increase( the details on how and the limitations are very complex and not necessary to be mentioned here. )

the normal setting on the box will in most probability wont be exceeding the said limit on rail pressure maybe 50-100bar extra and that too probably in the extremer rev end 4k + rpm. operation in these ranges in indian or euroepean driving conditions is very less. since essentially the drivers never redline diesels that much compared to petrol heads like me. ( i am a diesel head too. but i like the rev free nature of petrol too)

the swift tuning is already agressive in nature and the box just aids more better. but punto tuning is not aggresive simply put the map is having a very linear transistion and fast in no way. but the swift box will make pressure build up very rapid ( double effect since in swift the rail pressure build up will be real fast in the 2k-3k rpm and the box will make it 1.5k - 4 k faster. this if applied to the punto rail which is already slow to build up rail pressure, will do more harm. what is needed is a BOX SPECIFIC TO PUNTO in real sense and not just another rebadged swift box!! )

in the swift the turbo will be able to cope up with the rail pressure build up to an extent even then without aftermarket filters, the swift will smoke heavily and also oil will be used up real fast. those who follow a religious 5k kms service and have better air filters installed wont have to put up with the smoke.

in the punto, the turbo in most probability wont be able to make up for the rapid rail pressure buildup. leading to extra heavy smoking and yes coupled with the 15k kms service schedule. things will be too late!. not to forget the punto has a fgt it needs more time to fully open up. but in a car like linea or verna, vgt opens more faster.

a verna with petes would be deadly. at stage 1 or 2 with a bigger intercooler and HKS filter + synthetic oil package is nothing short of a

best thing would be to get a box which is custom tuned say from RD guys heard that they have custom tuning. but going by the shorter gearing i realy dont think the punto suffers in drivability.

and yes the swift injectors are hard coded. decoupling them is close to impossible and hence rail pressure modulation. instead of injection modulation( safer and definitely more reliable!!) as in an elantra.

now the stage 1,2 settings these settings will definitely go to max pressure limit being exceeded by 100-250 bars. even 300 bars or more in case of UI engines. skoda!
and yes only these two settings will give noticable increase in top end.

but yes serious smoking will be there as in the car behind you will become black in colour!!

so why the punto is not specifically suited for a box.
for one after going through certain posts in owner ship threads, one picture was showing an engine mount nut being loose.!!

Fiat guys wont have been that strict in looking at if everything is fixed properly. the rail components, feed lines etc would not be designed with hard pressure build up. if a feed line to an injector goes bust or blows off. all hell will be let loose! expect some spectacular works. lol.

dont bother with stage 1 and stage 2 settings. the punto rail wont be at all suited for such pressure build up. heck i dont even know if the rail is from the original german manufacturer. ( even then design constructions are there. a box designed for swift with swift specific rail, pump, turbo etc. will never be able to be perfectly suited to punto everything is not same and so is the tuning ?)

the advantage of psi tuning boxes is that there claims are more or less true since its dyno checked. and also emission norms meeting ones. but a swift box designed for E3 will never match E4 of punto!.

then coming to linea well the indian linea is not 90ps and also the turbo tuning might be different to an extent no idea. but since it s VGT it should cope up. ( here also i have serious doubts whether rail components are all the same as in the european engine or cost conscious compromised components).

they hyundai engines verna and getz run like dreams coz they are imported engines. and the box is specifically tuned for the said purpose.
also hyundai has themselves said that they tuned VGT for the top end for the verna and getz. hence all power junkies can rejoice with the boxes.

hope this helps guys who are looking at punto/linea tuning boxes. from a pure technical point of view. DONT BOTHER! ( the fiat engineers will know it instantly if a box has been used as the oil will be dark black sooner than usual and smoking will be apparently more.!

dont ever do the foolishness of installing a box without running in.
atleast first oil change. there will be metal chunks in the initial oil putting the rail and engine under heavy load will never be a good idea!!

happy motoring.

NutsNBolts · 5th August 2009, 21:24

Thanks thomas, that was a truly informative post. Guess it is better to wait till a specific box for Punto/Linea is announced.

amoghchaphalkar · 5th August 2009, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by .anshuman

I dont think fiat has enough time to track every car,they would rather concentrate on selling cars.

I guess I did not make myself clear.

My concern was ... news spread rapidly over internet forums and we never know who is reading what. So no point taking undue risk (especially if we are paying 5k for extended warranty)

I did not mean to say that Fiat tracks each and every Punto related thread on TBHP (if they do .. thats great .. they dont have to spend money on getting customer feedback

)

There would of course be no issues if Fiat approves Pete

~~VinZ~~ · 5th August 2009, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by NutsNBolts

Thanks thomas, that was a truly informative post. Guess it is better to wait till a specific box for Punto/Linea is announced.

I second that. it would be way better if we wait for the specific tuning box for "grande punto 1.3 multijet". i was searching through to find out if there are any in the rest of the world and i think i found couple of the tuning boxes specific for 1.3 multijet 75PS/190Nm (indian version is 76PS/197Nm)

Grande Punto Diesel Tuning Chip | Grande Punto MultiJet Chip | Diesel Tuning Chip For Fiat Grande Punto MultiJet

Diesel Tuning Box for Fiat Grande Punto 1.3 Multijet 75 PS-BHP / 190 Nm / 16V / DPF by CHIP Express™

Both the site says that it will increase the power + FE (sounds surprising)

Hopefully pete's bring up with a tuning box or any other brand. I am waiting for a specific tuning box for sure.

aks_karthik · 5th August 2009, 22:24

Thomas,
It's very interesting.I too have the same doubt.
I sent a mail to Petes.in and as per their mail,the tuning box is specially tuned for Linea.
But i donno how much testing has done so far in Linea.

can we send mail to FIAT itself for improving power using some tunning box?

5th August 2009, 15:54	#875
sunishsamuel BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: TVM, BLR, HYD Posts: 656 Thanked: 1,112 Times	After reading the review here, suggested dad to pick punto emotion pack which he promptly did. He is extremely happy with the performance and last week i got a chance to drive it. Likes - It looks cute, like a smiling cute mouse or a bunny from the front. - moves superb, release the clutch and car takes off. Throttle response is amazing. - The quality is great, no squeaks and rattle after 2k kms. - Mileage seems to be the attractive factor for my family, and seems it gives decent mileage (around 16.5kmpl in city with ac) did not test much. - The car speakers are awesome, nice clarity (my bro tells its some 6 speakers inbuilt ?) - ride is too good with four medium size people. - General quality is good atleast for now. - Rides well even at 40kmph at 5th gear. Dislikes - hate the driving posture, may be because i have a safari and used to it. I can't see anything outside about the bonnet, it scares me. - With four heavy weights in the car, the car seems to have a problem when covering small pot holes and bumps, looks the tyre touches the body and makes a light thud sound ? Or is that something else ?
	() Thanks

5th August 2009, 20:48	#881
Thomas8700 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: back in gods own country :) Posts: 118 Thanked: 0 Times	@harry10 as per vinz post . the box was for swift hence the statement. ok since this is the sole thread for the punto . i will be specific as to why the box is not a good idea. the punto is tuned for mileage and also the turbo is also tuned in such a manner. first up a disclaimer. i am not interested in promoting any brands. and in no way i am affiliated with anything or anyone. how i know about this is from batch mates who are working in this specific industry. the box for the swift works on the principle of altering the rail pressure map through a bypass route which consists of another small ecu. which has the altered rail pressure map.( it emulates the required signals well enough that the original ECU can never make out the rail pressure signal has been changed. it still remains within specified voltage ranges. ) the map is the rpm/rail pressure map. i.e for a specific rpm this much rail pressure should be maintained.( based on rail pressure, injections are taken care by the ECU with other inputs) say the upper limit is 1300bar and lower limit is 800bar ( these are approximations) the normal settings. the box alters the map such that lower limit to higher limit transition is more faster and linear at same time. hence the result is even at lower rpms the rail operates in a higher pressure. hence leading to increased injections which in turn causes the lower end torque to increase and hence increase the drivability at higher gears. mileage is improved since due to availability of better low end, people drive in higher gears most of the time hence the mileage increases. in most cases the car will be drivable in city and even inclines in higher gears 4th and even 5th!! and yes the injection of more diesel in the lower rpms essentially leads to power/torque increase( the details on how and the limitations are very complex and not necessary to be mentioned here. ) the normal setting on the box will in most probability wont be exceeding the said limit on rail pressure maybe 50-100bar extra and that too probably in the extremer rev end 4k + rpm. operation in these ranges in indian or euroepean driving conditions is very less. since essentially the drivers never redline diesels that much compared to petrol heads like me. ( i am a diesel head too. but i like the rev free nature of petrol too) the swift tuning is already agressive in nature and the box just aids more better. but punto tuning is not aggresive simply put the map is having a very linear transistion and fast in no way. but the swift box will make pressure build up very rapid ( double effect since in swift the rail pressure build up will be real fast in the 2k-3k rpm and the box will make it 1.5k - 4 k faster. this if applied to the punto rail which is already slow to build up rail pressure, will do more harm. what is needed is a BOX SPECIFIC TO PUNTO in real sense and not just another rebadged swift box!! ) in the swift the turbo will be able to cope up with the rail pressure build up to an extent even then without aftermarket filters, the swift will smoke heavily and also oil will be used up real fast. those who follow a religious 5k kms service and have better air filters installed wont have to put up with the smoke. in the punto, the turbo in most probability wont be able to make up for the rapid rail pressure buildup. leading to extra heavy smoking and yes coupled with the 15k kms service schedule. things will be too late!. not to forget the punto has a fgt it needs more time to fully open up. but in a car like linea or verna, vgt opens more faster. a verna with petes would be deadly. at stage 1 or 2 with a bigger intercooler and HKS filter + synthetic oil package is nothing short of a best thing would be to get a box which is custom tuned say from RD guys heard that they have custom tuning. but going by the shorter gearing i realy dont think the punto suffers in drivability. and yes the swift injectors are hard coded. decoupling them is close to impossible and hence rail pressure modulation. instead of injection modulation( safer and definitely more reliable!!) as in an elantra. now the stage 1,2 settings these settings will definitely go to max pressure limit being exceeded by 100-250 bars. even 300 bars or more in case of UI engines. skoda! and yes only these two settings will give noticable increase in top end. but yes serious smoking will be there as in the car behind you will become black in colour!! so why the punto is not specifically suited for a box. for one after going through certain posts in owner ship threads, one picture was showing an engine mount nut being loose.!! Fiat guys wont have been that strict in looking at if everything is fixed properly. the rail components, feed lines etc would not be designed with hard pressure build up. if a feed line to an injector goes bust or blows off. all hell will be let loose! expect some spectacular works. lol. dont bother with stage 1 and stage 2 settings. the punto rail wont be at all suited for such pressure build up. heck i dont even know if the rail is from the original german manufacturer. ( even then design constructions are there. a box designed for swift with swift specific rail, pump, turbo etc. will never be able to be perfectly suited to punto everything is not same and so is the tuning ?) the advantage of psi tuning boxes is that there claims are more or less true since its dyno checked. and also emission norms meeting ones. but a swift box designed for E3 will never match E4 of punto!. then coming to linea well the indian linea is not 90ps and also the turbo tuning might be different to an extent no idea. but since it s VGT it should cope up. ( here also i have serious doubts whether rail components are all the same as in the european engine or cost conscious compromised components). they hyundai engines verna and getz run like dreams coz they are imported engines. and the box is specifically tuned for the said purpose. also hyundai has themselves said that they tuned VGT for the top end for the verna and getz. hence all power junkies can rejoice with the boxes. hope this helps guys who are looking at punto/linea tuning boxes. from a pure technical point of view. DONT BOTHER! ( the fiat engineers will know it instantly if a box has been used as the oil will be dark black sooner than usual and smoking will be apparently more.! dont ever do the foolishness of installing a box without running in. atleast first oil change. there will be metal chunks in the initial oil putting the rail and engine under heavy load will never be a good idea!! happy motoring.
	() Thanks

5th August 2009, 21:24	#882
NutsNBolts BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Jammu Posts: 817 Thanked: 41 Times View My Garage	Thanks thomas, that was a truly informative post. Guess it is better to wait till a specific box for Punto/Linea is announced.
	() Thanks

5th August 2009, 22:24	#885
aks_karthik Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,947 Thanked: 341 Times View My Garage	Thomas, It's very interesting.I too have the same doubt. I sent a mail to Petes.in and as per their mail,the tuning box is specially tuned for Linea. But i donno how much testing has done so far in Linea. can we send mail to FIAT itself for improving power using some tunning box?
	() Thanks