[carrot_eater]

Originally Posted by cpbopanna

So my simple recommendation, buy the original Mahindra soft-top for the old Thar, and before installing, stick a layer of rexine (stretched across the entire top edges) using Fevicol SR. Unless there is a deluge, there is very little likelihood of water seeping through either the material or the stitches!

Good Suggestion - Do you know anybody in Bangalore who where you get this done - Then I could my use my existing Top itself.

Thank you
Ranjeet Singh

[cpbopanna]

Originally Posted by carrot_eater

Good Suggestion - Do you know anybody in Bangalore who where you get this done - Then I could my use my existing Top itself.

Thank you
Ranjeet Singh

There are many people on JC Road.
However, let me identify someone reliable and revert!

[tomraven99]

Originally Posted by SpeedyS

Have you got the new dashboard installed? If yes, please share the pictures. It will be interesting to see how it fits. Also, as stated by someone in this thread, did it require too many changes to the internal wiring?

The new Dash has been partially installed on my Thar. Not at all complicated provided you have a good mechanic and electrician.

The good news.

1}Have managed to find out the pin inputs on the new cluster. The cluster wiring connector is a single 32 pin one instead of the three separate connectors on the old one. These pins can be connected with small computer motherboard connectors and can be joined onto the old harness. So you don't need to change any of the old wiring
Haven't installed the cluster yet but the cluster microprocessor booted perfectly with an external 12v supply. All gauges and LEDS are working

2}The Dash fits on the existing frame after few small modifications. The existing side L-shaped clamps can be used with new dash. Of course new holes may have to be drilled and clamps may have to be fabricated.Nothing complicated. Apply some deadening sheets and its rattle free.

3}Its cheap{About 13k for the dash+cluster and about 2k for the Bolero steering wheel}Was quoted 1 lakh by a center in coimbatore.

The bad news.

1}The steering column,the indicator stalks are misaligned with the new dashboard. A small cut is needed on the new dash to get it aligned else you may have to replace the entire column.

2}The AC vents are different and incompatible with the old one. The front panel of the blower assembly has to be removed/cut to fit the new dash. Some jugaad might be need on the front panel to divert air into the new dash vents.

Will update with the complete pictures later

[shankar.balan]

There are two Thar CRde's in HSR Layout for sale in the local dealer place.
One is a 2014 model for which the man wants 7.25 lacs and the other is a 2015 model for which he wants 8 lacs.

I sat about in both of them and twiddled them about a bit.
Im used to the old standard 2112 CC engined MM540 (1987 model) and 2594 cc engined MM550DP (1994, 1996,1999 Models).

When considering the situation from memory I remember the old 540 had a straight gear lever positioned similar to this Thar. But its 4WD lever with H and L etc was right next to it and could be seen quite easily whilst driving.

The 550DP's had a sort of slightly bent gear lever which actually was much much more ergonomic and comfortable while shifting gears at reasonable speeds in the hills, changing up or down was a breeze. Its 4WD lever also was very well placed and each slot was visible from the driving position.

This new Thar Crde on the other hand - the gear lever is ramrod straight - not as ergonomic as my old 550. Most certainly this is true.

Next, the blessed 4WD lever is to the right and slightly behind the gear lever which means the blighted thing is located kind of under the dashboard fascia which means that it is not immediately accessible and one has to kind of "peer" below and really squint to see what slot one wants to put it in, whether 4H or 2H or 4L or whatever. Extremely inconveniently placed.

The funny thing is that in the old MM's there was absolutely no "shift on the fly". One had to be at a standstill if one wanted to shift to 4WD.
These new vehicles say that they are "Borg Warner" manual shift on the fly type. But the positioning of the lever is such that one absolutely has to come to a standstill in order to locate the slot into which one wants to put the 4WD lever!

Very very poor design indeed in my opinion. Most inconvenient!
Of course, I am fully aware that as with all proper 4WD systems it is a good practice to come to a standstill, press the clutch fully, engage whichever slot required of the 4WD and then move ahead in low gear etc. But the positioning in the Thar basically makes it very inconvenient to "test" their "shift on the fly"...

And having not sat in a Thar since the day it was launched, I was most terribly shocked with the insides and the fit and finish and feel and so on.

The blighted machine feels EXACTLY like the 30 year old MM540 and 20 year old MM550's!!
Absolutely NO changes for the better in terms of quality, fit, finish, ergonomics, feel, etc!

And therefore, it leads me to ask, what the hell took these M&M boys so blightedly long to plonk the DI engine and/ or the Crde engine into this vehicle? It is a damnably crude piece of work as a vehicle and 30 years down the line the blighted machine costs 8-10 lacs for the hardtop! And it has absolutely NOTHING in it, in terms of safety kit! Not even ABS!! Bah!

Our 1987 MM cost Rs 1.1 lacs in the Nilgiris - On Road.
The 1996-1999 550 cost about 2.25 lacs in Coorg/ Chikmagalur - On Road.

I am completely stunned that essentially the same vehicle as what we had in the old days, now costs close to 8 times as much or 4 times as much!!

I think while the vehicle looks lovely and is quite torquey and functional and all that, these M&M boys really need to sit up and take notice of consumer feedback especially in terms of quality, fit, finish, finesse and feel and safety and so on etc!

Im truly disappointed that the Indian consumer is consistently being taken for a good long bumpy ride by the manufacturers, even those of such repute as M&M!!!

Really, I just can't get over this at all!

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I am fully aware that as with all proper 4WD systems it is a good practice to come to a standstill, press the clutch fully, engage whichever slot required of the 4WD and then move ahead in low gear etc. But the positioning in the Thar basically makes it very inconvenient to "test" their "shift on the fly"...

Why should one have to stop to go from 2H to 4H? The Gypsy with essentially the same hardware does this easily in motion with the clutch pressed. It is a good idea to not be doing more than 40 kmph or so at the time, but given that one would not want to engage 4H except when on or close to hitting poor surfaces, that would not be an issue.

The move from 4H to 2H is a different matter and needs the car to be stopped if you want the drive train to survive. Does Thar claim to be able to safely do this change in motion? I would be very surprised if it did.

Except for the petrol engine and no A/C, I think a new Gypsy of 20 year old design vintage is still a better car than a new Thar. For what it contains the build quality is very good. Not that it contains a lot!

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Why should one have to stop to go from 2H to 4H? The Gypsy with essentially the same hardware does this easily in motion with the clutch pressed. It is a good idea to not be doing more than 40 kmph or so at the time, but given that one would not want to engage 4H except when on or close to hitting poor surfaces, that would not be an issue.

The move from 4H to 2H is a different matter and needs the car to be stopped if you want the drive train to survive. Does Thar claim to be able to safely do this change in motion? I would be very surprised if it did.

Except for the petrol engine and no A/C, I think a new Gypsy of 20 year old design vintage is still a better car than a new Thar. For what it contains the build quality is very good. Not that it contains a lot!

Refer to their Owners Manual Link

http://www.mahindrathar.com/pdf/thar...ers-manual.pdf
Section 10.6 onwards.


Yes, you can shift from 2H to 4H at any speed between 0-30kmph.

Saying that, when the Shifter Lever is sitting almost under the dashboard, to be able to see what you are shifting into, you will need to bend and peer at it so that you're sure of what you are doing.

When you do bend and peer your eyes will be off the road for those few seconds and this is most definitely NOT a good idea when travelling at say 20-30kmph in conditions which require you to shift from 2H to 4H...

The Thar Soft Top leaks quite a bit - yesterday was a slightly drizzly day and the parked Soft Top Thars that I saw had small leaky issues here and there. Even our 30 years ago MM540 Soft top used to leak.

The Hardtop vehicles that we had in the '90's were slightly better.

Basically, the much vaunted new Thar Crde is just the same as the vehicle of 30 years ago - they haven't even garnished it with a bit of finesse....except of course that the engine per se is different as is the Borg Warner Shift on the Fly 4WD system.

Else, the same niggles and flaws of 30 years ago continue to exist in this avatar also, which is really the reason for my ranting...

[Sawyer]

Maybe they really want you to NOT make the change while moving!

The last two words in the quoted sentence below from the manual are flat out wrong.

Quote:
4H: All four wheels are driven at 1:1 speed ratio. This mode provides additional traction and maximum pulling power for loose, slippery road surfaces such as ice, snow, gravel, sand and dry pavement.
Unquote

Use 4WH or L on dry pavement for some time and the driveline WILL get damaged. Unless there exists slippery dry pavement somewhere in this world, I have yet to see it.

[AAD]

Slightly off topic but this is precisely the reason that I opted for Fortuner (of course its a completely different price bracket) with Permanent 4 wheel drive capability due to the presence of Center differential. The new fortuner does not have this feature.

On wet slippery monsoon drenched highways, having permanent 4 wheel traction is a great confidence booster. The point I am making is that one needs 4 wheel traction even in normal driving situations such as what we face during monsoons on our highways.

Guess, true purists demanding off road capability are dwindling in number around the world and hence the absence of hard core features that define a true blue off roader in most newer models of 4x4 vehicles

Just my 2 bit

Cheers

Anuj

[himanshugoswami]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Maybe they really want you to NOT make the change while moving!

The last two words in the quoted sentence below from the manual are flat out wrong.


Use 4WH or L on dry pavement for some time and the driveline WILL get damaged. Unless there exists slippery dry pavement somewhere in this world, I have yet to see it.

maybe they meant dryingpavement

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by AAD

Permanent 4 wheel drive capability due to the presence of Center differential. The new fortuner does not have this feature.

On wet slippery monsoon drenched highways, having permanent 4 wheel traction is a great confidence booster.

I very much doubt that the new Fortuner does not have a center diff - what leads you to think so?

As to the value of all time 4WD, I think the Audi Quattro was the first road going car to establish the value of the feature on slippery paved roads, caused by rain or snow. The Mitsubishi Super Select II transmission installed in the Pajero from twenty or so years ago, goes one better than Fortuner, by offering this as an option; the use of 2WD is also available on that when the roads are dry, with the benefit of better fuel economy in that mode. The twenty year old Pajero equipped with that is in many ways a better car than even today's Fortuner, but Toyota is just a better company from which to buy an expensive car.

The Thar/Gypsy aren't meant to be driven at speeds over 100 kmph on slippery pavement, if one values one's life.

[AAD]

Hi Sawyer,

I am being lazy in not reproducing the part in the autocar review of the new fortuner where it clearly says that it misses out in this important piece of equipment.

Pajero drivetrain is arguably the best in the business. No question about it. As a product too, despite owning the Fortuner, Pajero rides and handles way better than the current gen fortuner.

You are right about the Audi quattro full time all wheel drive and alongwith Subaru, they perhaps remain among the select few to offer full time - not selectable or electronically controlled - all wheel drive.

I owned a Gypsy too way back for 6 yeArs and drove over 100k kms. I used the 4 wheel drive high feature regularly on wet highways with absolutely no detrimental effect to the drivetrain.

Sorry for hijacking the Thar thread to discuss other vehicles but I wanted to highlight the need for four wheel traction even in normal day to day situations such as driving on Mumbai Pune expressway during monsoon

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by AAD

I used the 4 wheel drive high feature regularly on wet highways with absolutely no detrimental effect to the drivetrain.

That is surprising; the only reason why the drive train isn't damaged in 4WD mode on non centre diff cars is when the tyres are able to relieve the driveline strain by easily breaking traction with the road surface as they do in slush/snow/loose gravel. I can't see that happening on a wet highway in a similar way - and it would be interesting to hear of any Thar driver if they are able to use the Thar 4H in a similar way.

As to the Fortuner, I am willing to bet that what you read about a missing centre differential was in the context of the 2WD version; I cannot see how they would drop this in the 4WD version which was also the only version when it was first launched. How could you drive a 4WD version if it does not have the centre differential?! - given that it does not have the 2WD option that cars like Thar/Gypsy have.

[AAD]

Please click on the link below to understand tue 4x4 features in the New Fortuner.

The reason my Gypsy never showed the effect of driving in 4x4H on highways is because most of the driving on highways is relatively straight so not much difference in the relative turning radius between front and rear axles.

Trust this helps.

Cheers

[AAD]

Oops, forgot to attach the link. Here it is.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4038393

[a_nan]

Hi sawyer,
Comparison with the gypsy is important since there is nothing else to compare with, but, other than the build quality, the thar betters the gypsy in every way. The highway dynamics are in comparable, power is way more, the IFS makes it a decent handler and the presence it has is also better than the gypsy.
Shifting between 2 and 4 high is just a flick of the lever and one doesn't look down for that, though I must say that it's preferred to stop and do so because it doesn't engage on the move very well. And shifting between high and low ratio anyway needs you to stop completely and use both hands to slot the low ratio.
What AAD says is quite interesting, I have never dared to put 4H on Tarmac, always been wary of tyre wear and fuel consumption. Should try it next time.
I am happy with the auto locking hubs and the 4WD system on the whole, makes it very convenient compared to the MM540 /550.
The biggest issue with the thar unfortunately is the mahindra ASS itself. If you go to your local mechanic, and have patience & time, you should be fine.