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Old 31st January 2014, 20:39   #46
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

One of the driving factors abroad, other than regulatory, is insurance rates. If and when vehicle insurance is detariffed in India, things will change.

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Old 31st January 2014, 20:44   #47
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

While I like the whole initiative, I can't wonder where the NCAP got the idea and the funding for this. I wouldn't be surprised if soon, a competing small car manufacturer/new entrant launches a small car with airbags standard, and safety as its USP.
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Old 31st January 2014, 20:47   #48
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Not entirely sure the govt. is to be blamed here. Sure the govt. can do a lot, but IMO the problem lies 95% with the consumer and 5% with the govt.

- Did the govt. say cars in India should be fuel efficient at the expense of safety?
- Did the govt. say more diesel cars should be produced?
- Or was it the consumer that demanded cars should be progressively, Euro II, III and IV etc compliant?

Say by some miracle, all car buyers realize the importance of safetly overnight and start shunning cars without ABS and airbags, what would happen? No car maker will be able to have variants with safety as a differentiator, thats what. And in this case would it matter what the govt. has to say??

Unless of course the govt. mandates that cars MUST be sold WITHOUT safety features...

Lets take my own example here. I currently drive a 2008 Alto which has no safety features to speak of (unless you want to consider working brakes a safety feature ) and my upgrade is surely going to have at least two airbags and ABS.
But I can tell you how infinitely safer I felt when I moved from my bike to the Alto. I had protection from weather, was safe from skids, had better visibility at night, knew I'd reach home in one piece even if I drove into an open manhole, did not smell of diesel fumes when I walked into office, etc etc. But if the Alto had been made (mandatorily) available with ABS and two airbags back in 2008, I guess it would have been at least 30 - 40% more expensive - given that it's a low price car to start with. Due to affordability reasons, someone like me would have had to put off the car buying decision by another year or two - thereby exposing myself to greater danger on a two wheeler.

My point is that govt. can and should only do so much. It is really up to the buyers to decide what to buy. Car makers will surely listen - just as they're doing now and making fuel efficient cars sans safety.

That brings up another question. If the govt. mandates safety features on cars, what should it do about two and three wheelers? Totally ban them?

Making safety features mandatory in cars by law will surely not result in immediate reduction in road accident related injuries/deaths.
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Old 31st January 2014, 20:57   #49
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Er.. I can't understand why we jump the gun in blaming the Government, the manufacturers, the general populace and all the what-all and what-nots!! It isn't as if the manufacturer or the Government is holding a gun to the head of the consumer and forcing them to choose an unsafe car. It is the consumer's choice at the end of the day, why not wish him well and leave it at that? One can be trusted with running/choosing governments, running organizations, maintaining a family etc., but when choosing a car he/she is suddenly incapable of knowing what's good and what's bad and needs the Government/manufacturer to treat him/her like a helpless infant?

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Old 31st January 2014, 21:01   #50
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

The Figo and Polo perform just as expected, but the i10 really is a surprise wasn't the car advertised as a made in India for the world automobile by Shahrukh Khan himself? It certainly falls in a price bracket where I expect some structural safety, I would like to see a further investigation into the differences in the i10 sold here and the ones sold globally.

I can't say I'm surprised about the Alto or the Nano since they are anyway in a price bracket where we honestly cannot expect much in terms of quality or safety. I fear that the Datsun Go will perform similarly by the looks of it.

Absolutely disgusted by the head of MS r&d department's response not only does the man display his awareness (and lack of shame) of the car's faults, he even has the cheek to use terms like "we have been fine tuning the regulations". The guy shows himself to be uneducated in that he brings in several unstructured points which show no articulation skills and seem to, in his head, serve the purpose of dodging the need to respond with a certain degree of shame, and claim that changes will be made. Simply scary to think that such an under-informed person is heading a major company's research and development department.

Source of Mr. IV Rao's (head of R&D Maruti Suzuki India) statements were pulled from:

Sorry about the language that I resorted to in the last paragraph but I was truly shocked by this response from someone representing a major automobile manufacturer in India (I myself tend to be a little partial since I own a Suzuki product, but this was unacceptable and sheer unethical). I really tried my best to tone things down simply couldn't do better. Mods: feel free to edit.

Last edited by IshaanIan : 31st January 2014 at 21:18.
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Old 31st January 2014, 21:06   #51
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Mod Note : There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the forum experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use spell-checkers.

Last edited by GTO : 1st February 2014 at 16:15.
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Old 31st January 2014, 21:16   #52
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

People on the roads here do not value their own life, I was in Hyderabad last weekend and I was surprised to see people just walk across main roads ignoring the traffic. Here in Pune people on two wheelers will wriggle through any gap the find, the moment they see a traffic jam they will just start using the wrong side of the road driving straight at on coming traffic expecting the traffic to move out for them ( this happens every morning when you travel from Magarpatta to Kharadi). Once people start valuing their own life they will demand for things they use to be safe and then these manufacturers will start providing them. Till then we are a country with plenty of people and it does not matter if a few die.

Last edited by GTO : 1st February 2014 at 16:17. Reason: Typos
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Old 31st January 2014, 21:17   #53
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Originally Posted by prashanthyr View Post
I am all for Airbags and ABS to be made mandatory. However, i feel other essential equipment should be made mandatory as well - namely - left side ORVM, rear defogger, rear wash / wipe (Hatchbacks).

Also, enforcement. I know of at least 2 people (educated, city bred, well travelled), one of whom wont use the left ORVM (the excuse is bikers will break it!) and the second one's kids are always standing in front with their hands on the Air bag console. I can only pray for their safety as multiple attempts to make them see reason have failed.
can't agree more.. I remember at least a few years back when I was in market to buy a car, Left Side ORVM was not available on the base models of entry level cars... I was like *** ... in mass production it does not cost more than 50 bucks..

Originally Posted by naveenroy View Post
On a lighter note, I am glad someone hasn't said that this is all some sort of conspiracy to malign India in the eyes of the world etc.

But seriously, the manufacturers are to blame - yes. But what about the government. When will we give up on populist policies and bring some discipline especially when lives are concerned?
Our government (and we) wake up to the reality too late.. same fate with the seat belts. unless it was made mandatory, no manufacturer bothered to provide these.

This is high time we have ABS and Airbags made mandatory from the base variants.. the economies of scale will surely bring the price down to half from the current differential.. At least it is more important than steering mounted audio controls and 6 speaker audio system.
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Old 31st January 2014, 21:27   #54
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

News of Indian cars safety make global news!

Ever wanted to go to India, take in the sights and sounds down there? Avoid the cars at all costs! Everybody knows the traffic is complete mayhem, but today we've going to tell you why the cars are deathtraps as well.
This just goes to show why Europe or America isn't ready to buy these airbag-less killing machines and why the Tata Nano never made it into Europe. Also, the safety cells and basically nonexistent and cabin deformation is in some cases right to where the front seats star. None of these cars would ever withstand the more sever rollover or small overlap tests conducted in Europe and America.
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Old 31st January 2014, 21:44   #55
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

It indeed is high time the government steps in and mandates safety in all variants sold and makes it compulsory to implement all rules strictly (No bribes).

Till these happen nothing can be done other than crying over these cars.

I feel these cars will fail as they are built on 1 single platform!

Fuel Efficiency

More sheet metal thickness and rigidity will add more weight which looses on FE which is THE MOST major concern for the public in India. How many top-end cars are seen in India vis-a-vis the mid and low-end variants that are sold for the cheap price and FE minded customers.

The "Accident Pictures in India" should be circulated in media regularly for people to understand the need of these safety features and make them realize the importance. Till the change comes in from the people along with our Government nothing can be done.

I was discouraged by my colleagues and friends when I was in search of a good helmet for my bike. All were suggesting the normal ones (300-500 bucks) and eventually when I settled for an 3.5K LS2 helmet I was mocked saying, 40 kmph speed doesn't need such an helmet! I just couldn't understand what can be told to such people other than me doing mentally.

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Old 31st January 2014, 21:55   #56
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Well, this was the point which I made when the Alto K10 safety results were making waves, for all the wrong reasons. Considering that all entry level hatches battle it out in a fiercely competitively market means that its unlikely that any of the models would be streets ahead in terms of build quality - one of the prime determinants of safety.

What has been a real eye opener without being entirely surprising is how the Polo has fared. How its Airbag equipped variant has fared is inconsequential; the fact that it has multiple variants at the entry level w/o airbags and hence earning the dubious ducks drives the point home, if they can get away with it, the Germans with their so called premium build quality are just as likely to sneak dodgy products past the door, the Japanese and Koreans have implicitly or unwittingly owned up that this is all they can deliver at bargain basement prices, what about the hallowed Europeans?

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the questions of safety is not that binary in India and I absolutely agree. Its a question of degree of safety. Even a Nano is safer than a completely open 2 wheeler. Hundreds of thousands buy into this relative 'safety' because the Nanos and the Altos afford them that opportunity. If a car which retails at ~3 lakhs can offer the kind of safety that would pass muster at the NCAP tests then its for the govt to crack the whip and hold the manufactures accountable, if not then well, thats the reality staring an emergent middle class in the face in a 3rd world nation. Just because some of us can afford premium hatches with airbags and 'tank like build quality' should not write off Nano and Alto owners as people whose choice of vehicles left them with an additional 50k in the bank; some of them could barely scratch together the meager down payment
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Old 31st January 2014, 22:01   #57
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Like the ARAI fuel rating has to be displayed, a similar way to express the safety rating should be taken. Instead of giving subsidies on shorter vehicles, or vehicles with a certain height (so stupid), give subsidies for cars with safety features such as airbags and ABS. This way, the prices will remain same, but with the addition of a life saver. It's really shocking to see how the Verna's top model's 6 Airbags were replaced for DRLS and LEDS!. But then again, prevention is better than cure. In my city, the roads are as good as many developed countries, but the average speeds are less than even half. God, people don't know how to drive in a lane or give an indicator or even give way, it's really just a disgrace. In UK getting a license is a very difficult task, that is reflected in their very low fatality rate. Harder tests might help but then like South Africa, people will just bribe the officials. So, the moral of the story is that corruption is the root of all the problems in any country and it need to be uprooted.
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Old 31st January 2014, 22:01   #58
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

I think something is amiss. Given that we're made aware of risks, usually we Indians are rather prudent. Infact we're the "Little extra for safety-sake" kindof guys.

(Afterthought : Or are we still, "When my day comes, I'll go" kindof people? Hopefully atleast majority of the educated lot aren't!)

AFAIK, till date, no car-maker has aggressively highlighted the EuroNCAP rating / crash test scores in their advertisements in India. Whether print or otherwise, I doubt auto-makers have ever made any effort to tell us about the importance of these ratings. I don't think they've even any shortage of advertising talent to find ways to sell us 'safety'. Auto-makers have always only been keen to claim mileage figures.

Case in point : The guy I bought my Linea from, guessed that a car is as safe as its bonnets' length! Yet, the same guy was SO careful of the mileage, that he'd kept a detailed handwritten "Mileage Booklet" which he diligently updated every single fill-up(!) from Jun 2009 to Sept 2013. This is the kindof guy who can probably earn a years fuel costs in a day!

So I guess maybe thats about how much common man, being unaware, cares to know about car safety!

Also, when it comes to safety devices, I think it maybe issues like non-deployment of Airbags or improper functioning of electronic safety features that scares auto-makers. Because, incase of failure, the customers can sue them. Thats probably an obligation they want to avoid - and the best way to do that is to never provide the safety feature in the first place!

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 31st January 2014 at 22:12. Reason: ...indian car maker = car maker in india...
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Old 31st January 2014, 22:17   #59
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

Originally Posted by AbhiJ View Post
All cars I have purchased in the last 5 years have always had a bare minimum of 2 airbags and ABS. My friends call me stupid but I value my life.
+1 for you AbhiJ.

This is one of the reason I said that even the New Honda City 2014's E & S variants are not at all VFM with the passenger side Airbag omitted by Honda.

Why such a degradation in Safety Features when the previous generation had Minimum 2 Airbags and ABS as standard feature across all variants?

I think it is foolish to expect that the manufacturers will themselves focus on the safety of its consumers, because they seem to be only interested in money making. Honda just proved that by going a step backwards in terms of Safety.

MSIL does not even bother to provide Air-bags in the L or V Variants.
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Old 31st January 2014, 22:24   #60
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

There is an element of hypocrisy here. We are the same people who pronounce a car a hit or a flop based on Rs. 50,000 over or under. In that scenario can we really blame carmakers for doing in Rome as the Romans do? It's no secret that the top variants of these cars with the safety kit sell the least.

On the other hand, we can blame the government for setting lax standards for safety and emissions, which makes the air in our cities the worst in the world. After all people didn't start using seat belts until the government made them mandatory - it plays a critical role in educating people.

The Nano seems to fare the worst in these tests but to be fair it was never designed for this. The rationale was a cheap four-wheeler that encourages people to upgrade from a two-wheeler, which I think is tremendously more unsafe. Imagine what would happen to the dummy if a scooter was tested in the same manner. Is the Nano better than that?
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