Team-BHP > Road Safety


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29th June 2018, 15:41   #106
Distinguished - BHPian
 
saket77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ranchi
Posts: 3,887
Thanked: 8,111 Times
Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

All manufacturers run different set of algorithms for deployment of airbags, in case of that unfortunate event. Since Arvind posted the question referring to his Honda City, then I think it's relevant if I refer to my Civic's manual regarding deployment of airbags in case of belted/ unbelted passengers.

According to Honda, as per the owner's manual of Civic:

Name:  airbags.png
Views: 2104
Size:  122.0 KB

"Your front airbags are also dualthreshold airbags. Airbags with this feature have two deployment thresholds that depend on whether or not the occupant is wearing a seat belt.

If the occupant’s belt is not latched, the airbag will deploy at a slightly lower threshold, because the occupant would need extra protection.

If the occupant’s belt is latched, the airbag will inflate at a slightly higher
threshold, when the airbag would be needed to supplement the protection
provided by the seat belt."


This clearly says that in a Civic, airbags will be deployed at a lower severity threshold if the occupants are not wearing their seatbelts. Means, there is more chance of deployment of airbags if pax are unbelted. If all the passengers are belted, the airbags may not deploy at all, if the system feels so depending on the severity of impact/ sudden retardation.

I would suggest other car owners also refer to their manual to know what set of logics govern the airbag deployment in their particular car. Adding them to this thread would only give us more knowledge.
saket77 is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 29th August 2018, 14:28   #107
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 59
Thanked: 54 Times
Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

In my Honda City 1.5 S AT (Nov 2008)I have noticed that the airbag indicator light stays on since a week. Earlier too this was once noticed but this was set right at Honda service centre when I had given it for an airbag recall issue. At that time they said the front impact sensor wiring was cut (rats?). I am not sure where these sensors are located and the wiring route. Not even sure if it is the same problem. I have an ELM327 scanner but this does not indicate SRS(airbag) faults. I would like to buy a (minimum cost)scanner that can read and reset airbag fault codes. The OBD protocol for this model (displayed when using the ELM327 scanner) is ISO 15765-4 CAN (29bit, 500 kbaud). Any suggestions of a low cost scanner? I would like to know what the problem is before I approach any service centre and get ripped off.
nitnab is offline  
Old 1st September 2018, 10:20   #108
BHPian
 
sujithsidhardha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: KL-11 & KL-31
Posts: 92
Thanked: 126 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M35 View Post
BTW, is there any air bag ON-OFF switch on XUV ?
Not sure about a switch, but definitely there is a 15A fuse for Airbag, as per the owners manual.

Last edited by sujithsidhardha : 1st September 2018 at 10:48. Reason: typo
sujithsidhardha is offline  
Old 1st September 2018, 12:35   #109
BHPian
 
Waspune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Pune
Posts: 593
Thanked: 706 Times
Default

The front passenger airbag can be turned off in all the cars I guess; in case a kid is sitting there. But I don't think that the driver's airbag can be switched off. It's there for a reason and the assumption is that a small kid isn't driving.
Waspune is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 1st September 2018, 12:56   #110
Distinguished - BHPian
 
saket77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ranchi
Posts: 3,887
Thanked: 8,111 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waspune View Post
The front passenger airbag can be turned off in all the cars I guess; in case a kid is sitting there. But I don't think that the driver's airbag can be switched off. It's there for a reason and the assumption is that a small kid isn't driving.
No. Passenger air bag cannot be turned off in all cars except a select few which feature a passenger detection system. A passenger must weigh at least 25-30 kgs (as tuned by the manufacturer) for the SRS to comprehend that there is a passenger present on the co-pax seat. This feature saves airbag re-reinstatement costs in case of absent co-driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waspune View Post
But I don't think that the driver's airbag can be switched off. It's there for a reason and the assumption is that a small kid isn't driving.
Driver air bag cannot be switched off because if a car is being driven, there will always be a driver present & hence protection can't be turned off. Not supporting underage driving but nothing to do with your kid logic.

Regards,
Saket.
saket77 is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 2nd September 2018, 02:38   #111
BHPian
 
Waspune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Pune
Posts: 593
Thanked: 706 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
A passenger must weigh at least 25-30 kgs (as tuned by the manufacturer) for the SRS to comprehend that there is a passenger present on the co-pax seat. This feature saves airbag re-reinstatement costs in case of absent co-driver.
It's not about the costs associated with an airbag but because of safety concerns. If an infant (or a children below 13 years of age) is sitting in the passenger seat them the airbag would cause more harm rather than providing any safety. That is precisely the reason that there is a switch to de-activate the airbag.Please go through it :

https://www.cdc.gov/features/passengersafety/index.html

Airbags can kill young children if they are sitting in front seats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Driver air bag cannot be switched off because if a car is being driven, there will always be a driver present & hence protection can't be turned off. Not supporting underage driving but nothing to do with your kid logic.
I reiterate that there is an assumption that a kid ( below 13 years) isn't driving the car.


MODS : I know it's OT but I wanted to put forward an important point here. If you still feel the other way around them please delete it.

Last edited by Waspune : 2nd September 2018 at 02:39.
Waspune is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 2nd September 2018, 03:20   #112
Distinguished - BHPian
 
saket77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ranchi
Posts: 3,887
Thanked: 8,111 Times
Default Re: XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waspune View Post
It's not about the costs associated with an airbag but because of safety concerns. If an infant (or a children below 13 years of age) is sitting in the passenger seat them the airbag would cause more harm rather than providing any safety. That is precisely the reason that there is a switch to de-activate the airbag.Please go through it :

https://www.cdc.gov/features/passengersafety/index.html

Airbags can kill young children if they are sitting in front seats.


I reiterate that there is an assumption that a kid ( below 13 years) isn't driving the car.


MODS : I know it's OT but I wanted to put forward an important point here. If you still feel the other way around them please delete it.
Hi!
Children below a certain age should always be traveling in the rear seat in an appropriate child seat. Yes, death or serious injury can occur due to airbag deployment but again, ideally children should anyway not travel in the front seat. The link that you shared doesn't advocate that either. And again, most cars we have here don't have switches to turn any airbags off.

Regards.
saket77 is offline  
Old 16th September 2018, 18:04   #113
Team-BHP Support
 
Gannu_1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Madras
Posts: 5,842
Thanked: 13,351 Times
Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

Guys, with reference to the Polo GTI's accident in the Pics: Accidents in India thread where none of the airbags deployed:

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Sad to see a GTI in this state. Seen at the VW service center. No airbags were deployed as the sensors area seem intact, Cabin area too is intact.

Attachment 1796953

Attachment 1796954
A reader and avid VW retrofits expert Nikhil Patil drops in the following note:

The usual Polo/Vento/Rapids sold in India with 2 airbags (driver and co-driver), does not come with dedicated crash sensors ANYWHERE in the car. The lone crash sensor is built into the ACU (airbag control unit) as can be seen indicated in the image below:

Airbags: All you need to know!-89a95c1f5d8283786b47b3720c4734052000x138990w.jpg

The GTI comes with sensors on the front doors since it has side airbags. In the accident above, the doors are also intact which explains why none of the airbags deployed.

I too was under the impression that the Polo does come with airbag sensors on the front beam behind the bumper and on the diagonal members on the front doors. But that is definitely not the case.

I checked an old image I had clicked from my Polo's driver side door when I was installing the puddle lights and turns out the panel is missing the sensor. Only the mounting location and holes remain (highlighted in red below):

Airbags: All you need to know!-img_1836.jpg

Here's where the crash sensor for the side airbag would have been installed if the car ever came with these.

From the workshop manuals:

Name:  polomk51186.png
Views: 1690
Size:  132.4 KB

Thought I'd just mention it here. Just in case Polo/Vento/Rapid owners are under the impression that there are crash sensors in the front beam and doors.

Thanks for the input Nikhil! Appreciate it.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 19th September 2018 at 20:26.
Gannu_1 is offline   (10) Thanks
Old 16th September 2018, 18:52   #114
Senior - BHPian
 
Arjun Reddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,424
Thanked: 2,592 Times
Default Airbags: All you need to know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
No. Passenger air bag cannot be turned off in all cars except a select few which feature a passenger detection system. A passenger must weigh at least 25-30 kgs (as tuned by the manufacturer) for the SRS to comprehend that there is a passenger present on the co-pax seat. This feature saves airbag re-reinstatement costs in case of absent co-driver.

The passenger airbag can be turned off on the Punto. I am sure that the Punto does not have the passenger detection system.
Arjun Reddy is offline  
Old 21st September 2018, 14:21   #115
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vijayawada-AP
Posts: 283
Thanked: 120 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannu_1 View Post
..
The usual Polo/Vento/Rapids sold in India with 2 airbags (driver and co-driver), does not come with dedicated crash sensors ANYWHERE in the car. The lone crash sensor is built into the ACU (airbag control unit) as can be seen indicated in the image below..
Any idea how it is in Rapid Style variant which has 4 airbags, 2 front airbags (driver and passenger) and 2 side airbags (on the front seats), not the curtain airbags.

Also, I'm posting the link related to Micra XV CVT that happened in 2015 where both the airbags opened even though there is no frontal collision and speed is also less.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...ml#post4464071 (XUV500: Severe crash, but not a single airbag deployed (driver injured))

Any inputs in this regard are highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by vvrchandra : 21st September 2018 at 14:31.
vvrchandra is online now  
Old 14th March 2019, 11:53   #116
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 84
Thanked: 66 Times
Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

Thanks for the informative thread! Had a few doubts which I hope BHPians can clear:
1) What is the general lifespan of an airbag? Are the replacement costs expensive?
2) Please give some information on side and curtain airbags (replacement, service, doís and dontís etc).
3) Are there any cars in India affected by the Takata airbag recall (I didnít know where to ask this. @Mods, please take the appropriate action.)
balderash_12 is offline  
Old 14th March 2019, 12:47   #117
Distinguished - BHPian
 
saket77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ranchi
Posts: 3,887
Thanked: 8,111 Times
Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by balderash_12 View Post
Thanks for the informative thread! Had a few doubts which I hope BHPians can clear:
1) What is the general lifespan of an airbag? Are the replacement costs expensive?
2) Please give some information on side and curtain airbags (replacement, service, doís and dontís etc).
3) Are there any cars in India affected by the Takata airbag recall (I didnít know where to ask this. @Mods, please take the appropriate action.)

Hi,

Your answers point wise:

1. General Lifespan: Airbags don't need service as per a schedule. Unless deployed in an accident. The normal life of the unit is at least the service life of the car. Any issues, if crop, the SRS indicator will light up on the dash.

2. No replacement/ service required unless deployed or SRS warning lits up. Membes have also discussed side/ curtain airbags with much depth in this thread itself.

3. Lots of Indian cars were affected by the Takata airbags and many recalled the cars for replacement which was carried out free of cost. My Civic's airbag inflators were also replaced under this recall. There have been a lot of discussion on this issue on TBHP Itself. Check these links:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...inflators.html (Honda recalls 22,834 cars over faulty Takata airbag inflators)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...led-india.html (23,157 units of Toyota Corolla Altis recalled in India)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...-crisis-3.html (60 Million Car Bombs: Inside Takataís Airbag Crisis)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/road-...-impacted.html (Quality issue with Takata airbags. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, GM, BMW, Subaru impacted)
saket77 is offline  
Old 14th March 2019, 13:01   #118
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 84
Thanked: 66 Times
Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

Does that mean that the 2004 Forester is also affected? Where will they be replaced now when Chevrolet has left India??
balderash_12 is offline  
Old 26th August 2019, 12:15   #119
Distinguished - BHPian
 
volkman10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 15,854
Thanked: 35,239 Times
Default Re: Airbags: All you need to know!

Honda develops safer Front Airbags.
Name:  2.JPG
Views: 729
Size:  33.5 KB
Quote:
Where conventional airbags use only one inflating component, the new Honda unit relies on four: a large central chamber, two chambers inflating outwards off the side, and a 'sail panel' linking the two outboard sections.

Honda says the chambers work in concert to catch the driver's head and bring it into the centre of the airbag, almost like a baseball catcher's mitt, minimising the chances a passenger's head will slide off the 'bag or dramatically rotate in awkwardly-angled accidents.
Quote:
The new airbag design will start rolling out in Honda USA products from 2020 onwards. There's no word on when it might make the move into Honda's global vehicles.
Link
volkman10 is offline   (5) Thanks
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks