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Old 14th April 2022, 17:54   #136
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

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Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
Laughs in Polo!

I don't know if people actually move from brands like Skoda/VW to Maruti/Hyundai or are they mostly first time buyers.

I mean who would, lets say after test driving a Taigun/Kushaq, actually go for Creta. I'm genuinely curious to know how these decisions get taken, is it only money or something else.
Totally agree. I own a VW Polo since 11.5 years and a Rapid for almost 2 years now.
I'm in the market for a replacement of my Polo. Test-drove the Amaze, Kia Seltos, Kia Sonet, VW Taigun & Skoda Kushaq.

Despite the features offered in the Kia twins, both of them failed to impress me. Finally booked the Skoda Kushaq. It's really difficult to switch to any other brand after owning VAG cars.
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Old 14th April 2022, 18:04   #137
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

It's a big NO if your children are in it. Structure unstable: it can cut through flesh
Would you pay 20 lakh for a panoramic tin roof?
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Old 14th April 2022, 18:31   #138
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

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Originally Posted by nitkel View Post
Later build Polos and Ventos definitely feel lighter than the older ones! I have one, and I know the difference.
Sit in a Creta/Seltos and then hop into a Kushaq/Taigun. The VAG twins feel a segment lower. They might drive better, but if you're an enthusiast why even bother with a high GC CSUV? Rather buy a sedan like the Slavia/City instead!
I beg to differ. I sat in Seltos & Sonet over this weekend and immediately thereafter sat in a Taigun & Kushaq and felt world of a difference. Needless to say, immediately booked the Kushaq, despite somewhat lesser features as compared to the Kia twins.
The build quality is at another level in the VAG twins.
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Old 14th April 2022, 18:42   #139
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

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Originally Posted by ron178 View Post
Sorry I could confirm that the new City is not being tested

If carandbike was implying that there would be more results soon then it might be some other model then.
That's is sad. I was hoping for atleast one solid car in 15lac range. Also, do you think there would be more results soon? Wouldn't they publish all the results together if they had tested more cars?
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Old 14th April 2022, 18:50   #140
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

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Originally Posted by fine69 View Post
Laughs in Polo!

I don't know if people actually move from brands like Skoda/VW to Maruti/Hyundai or are they mostly first time buyers.

I mean who would, lets say after test driving a Taigun/Kushaq, actually go for Creta. I'm genuinely curious to know how these decisions get taken, is it only money or something else.
I know at least couple of relatives switched to S-cross 1.3 DDIS after their ownership of Vento and Rapid diesel. Their main concern was long term reliability, where there are parts like ABS sensor failed multiple times and also maintenance cost was getting higher. Both these cars has done 1Lakh plus kilometers. Now they are happier with ASS but still agree that Vento/Skoda were far better cars to Drive.
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Old 14th April 2022, 19:34   #141
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

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Originally Posted by ron178 View Post
Sorry I could confirm that the new City is not being tested

If carandbike was implying that there would be more results soon then it might be some other model then.
My hard guess is Kia Carens might be entering into 5 star club considering that it has six airbags as well as ESP and other safety features from base variant.

Or, Harrier/Safari twins would enter into this club.
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Old 14th April 2022, 19:35   #142
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

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Originally Posted by niranjanprabhu View Post
GNCAP still does not give us an understanding of how important "active" safety features like traction control, 4 disc brakes with ABS, hill assist, brake assist etc play a role in ensuring that the ultimate event of the car getting totaled does NOT happen. Hyundai and Kia are replete with active safety features.
The problem is: they also "have" frontal airbags. The tests show they provide less protection that their international counterparts. It makes it very difficult to trust the performance of the other equipment when they can't engineer for a test they know they might be selected for. Cost-cutting is not only in construction, a lot of it also happens in R&D investment.

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Originally Posted by niranjanprabhu View Post
4. It would have been also very helpful if GNCAP could have told us what the improvement in star ratings would be when a car has 6 airbags instead of 2.
Under the current protocols, squat. Doesn't mean they're not important, they're very important in otehr types of crashes (at least if they perform well), but they cannot compensate for bad frontal impact performance. An airbag isn't going to deploy and stop the Creta's pedals from being driven backwards ~20cm when the driver is slamming hard on the brakes.

But in a side impact with a tall car or a fixed object like a pole side head airbags can be a lifesaver, but only if they perform as intended. ESC, side impact and side head protection (pole) will be evaluated under the upcoming (July) protocols.

Normally the way NCAP tests work is after a few years of maintaining an assessment protocol everyone starts scoring four and five stars, it no longer becomes a meaningful comparison, then they update the protocols to push the industry forward.

That a single frontal offset crash can still be used as a meaningful comparison after almost nine years is very shameful and speaks very ill of the market situation. Five stars under this protocol is something that every manufacturer should have well exceeded ages ago. This protocol should have been obsolete. It looks like Global NCAP aren't happy with their own tests (they hadn't planned this far ahead for India):
Quote:
Although the overall star rating of these models might seem reasonable, the continued reluctance of manufacturers like Hyundai and Toyota to equip safety systems such as ESC and side body and head protection airbags as a basic requirement in India is disappointing.
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Originally Posted by sbm View Post
Wouldn't they publish all the results together if they had tested more cars?
Not really, for example all of the cars in this round were tested in 2021, before even the last round was published. That's how carandbike could cover all of them (he was visiting Germany for some awards or something). The i20 for example was tested before even the XUV700. The delays are probably because had a very busy Q4 2021 in Latin America because of logistics issues with the Sportage and Tucson and a lot of publications in December. If it helps, the reason I have got for them not testing the Honda New City is that there are other cars that are a greater priority.

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Originally Posted by car_guy1998 View Post
My hard guess is Kia Carens might be entering into 5 star club considering that it has six airbags as well as ESP and other safety features from base variant.
They don't currently count in the protocol. There have been many new launches from manufacturers who all seem likely so it's hard to guess right now. Also the '5 star' thing was also based on the assumption that it was a sponsored test for the City and why would they sponsor a test if it wasn't five stars. But since that's not true it opens the possibility of it being a less-than-five-star result, though I still reckon it's a sponsored test. There are a lot of possibilities: VW-Škoda, MG, Harrier/Safari, updated Nexon EV, Glanza, C3. They will probably be shipping Mexican-market T-Crosses and Virtuses from VW's India plant to ADAC for Latin NCAP anyway: maybe VW'll sponsor the Indian ones too to save on resources (shipping, sending engineers to the lab to witness the tests)? Hollis seemed to imply on Twitter they were looking forward to the Kushaq being tested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by car_guy1998 View Post
Or, Harrier/Safari twins would enter into this club.
GTO's source implied they would be tested later in the year so presumably under the new protocols.

Last edited by ron178 : 14th April 2022 at 19:57.
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Old 14th April 2022, 20:01   #143
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

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Originally Posted by sanyog26 View Post
I beg to differ. I sat in Seltos & Sonet over this weekend and immediately thereafter sat in a Taigun & Kushaq and felt world of a difference. Needless to say, immediately booked the Kushaq, despite somewhat lesser features as compared to the Kia twins.
The build quality is at another level in the VAG twins.
Well, not at all.
The overall quality which you can see and feel is great in the Koreans, the quality of materials, the space, the sheet metal thickness everything is well sorted and so is the engineering, the engines, even the ride and handling which the Euro cars owners used to shout from rooftops from has been extremely reasonably addressed, the panel gaps, the electronics and most of the components are well tested and validated and are reliable and they are better than the competitors in most areas and they even have the herd mentality and great aftersales service going for them. The Skoda/VW SUVs require atleast 2 posts worth of content to even begin to describe the giant screw ups they have engaged in.
The crash worthiness is something you can never feel, it is mostly from cost cutting in chassis level and might be in R&D too since Creta is not a global model like say Civic. This is purely greed on Hyundai's part and so is overpricing the Creta since launch, while over pricing is no crime, the safety performance kind of is and has raised many eyebrows, if this reduces their sales or forces them to improve by social media trolling or whatever, so be it. It worked on Maruti and we get a better Baleno now, maybe Hyundai will wake up too.
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Old 14th April 2022, 20:13   #144
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

Honestly, in a week where two entire seat belt strapped, air bags protected families of people I knew from work, died in highway accidents, one driving a top end crysta and another an XUV 500 (again top end) and another third, much worse accident of a cousin in a beat up old zen had him walk out with just scratches...im wondering if NCAP should allow brands to 'market' reliable safety as a selling point any more than hung chilli-lemons and dashboard idols.
Yes, since we drive amidst 0 star rated common sense and road conditions, a, 5 star definitely helps but should it make or break car purchases? Or should there be a star rating for driving skills without which one shouldn't even be allowed a wheel,, which I doubt democracy would allow to judge.
Only saying this to put out a counter point in favour of all those owning/looking to own their dream car. Let budgets, looks, colours, parking, ease of service etc still decide the buy rather than boiling it down to something that, like I have learnt this tragic week, is no more guarantee than hanging a rosary from the rearview.
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Old 14th April 2022, 20:15   #145
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

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Originally Posted by sanyog26 View Post
I beg to differ. I sat in Seltos & Sonet over this weekend and immediately thereafter sat in a Taigun & Kushaq and felt world of a difference. Needless to say, immediately booked the Kushaq, despite somewhat lesser features as compared to the Kia twins.
The build quality is at another level in the VAG twins.
I would agree. Happened same with me. Was head over heels in love with Seltos. Took test drive 5-6 times, then drove Kushaq. Definitely felt better built. Purchased Kushaq.

Still contemplate sometimes if I should have got sunroof in same price. Its not a easy call. But anything below 4 should be unacceptable. Creta is actually 2 star, having got 3 by margin of 0.01.
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Old 14th April 2022, 20:49   #146
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

People who had booked the creta before the crash test results came out already knew what they were getting themselves into- it's the Kia Seltos with changed bits here and there. Of course it would have almost same crash ratings- it's basically the same car.
Creta has many advantages- competent engines, gearbox combos, a lot of tech for the price, good FE and so on, hence why it sells in such large numbers. I don't think it's going to impact Creta's sales much; sure, there might be a dip in this month/ next month's numbers but majority of Indians(especially from tier 2/ tier 3 cities) do not care about safety still, which is evident from Maruti's numbers too.
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Old 14th April 2022, 20:50   #147
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

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Originally Posted by GKR9900 View Post
I don't think we should criticize Hyundai without being able to look through their lenses
Attachment 2295952
Now I understand why Hyundai does not mention weights of their cars in the brochure nor did they mention the weight of those projected African Elephants on their Creta! Great Photoshop effort though

Adding to this is their proclaimed UHSS Steel which was also marketed during Gen 1 Creta days. I thi they actually meant Ultra Highly Sensitive Steel than Ultra High Strength Steel
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Old 14th April 2022, 21:09   #148
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

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Originally Posted by ron178 View Post
An airbag isn't going to deploy and stop the Creta's pedals from being driven backwards ~20cm when the driver is slamming hard on the brakes.
I remember that probably bhpians @leoshashi @ron178 and yourself pointed out the use of breakaway pedals on some car models to avoid this very scenario. I have gathered from your posts that car manufacturers do internal crash testing to their car's crash worthiness. Is there any particular issue in using these break away pedals in cars suffering from footwell intrusion when the manufacturers know about the problem or does it costs more that a customer's legs in their opinion.
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Old 14th April 2022, 21:25   #149
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

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Originally Posted by AnAntinspired View Post
5 star definitely helps but should it make or break car purchases?
If the fact that you have the safest car of the segment helps you sleep at night, why not?

The same way, someone wants less maintenance, overly reliable car, to help them sleep at night. So, why not?

At the end of the day, buy the car that doesn't make you spend sleepless nights.

---

It is a shame that Hyundai skimped on some minor R&D costs of cars which sell more than 2 Lakh copies each. I guess with the same grade steel and probably thickness, it is possible to make a safer car.
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Old 14th April 2022, 22:12   #150
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Re: Hyundai Creta & i20 get 3-star GNCAP safety rating; Toyota Urban Cruiser gets 4

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Originally Posted by sbm View Post
I remember that probably bhpians @leoshashi @ron178 and yourself pointed out the use of breakaway pedals on some car models to avoid this very scenario.
Yes but I'm considering the possibility that when the engine intrudes so much pedal blockers might not be of use. For example the 1997 development notes of the test seem to imply that they planned to include (in the future) two separate criteria for pedal displacement and intrusion of the floorpan, but it was never implemented, instead they started taking the worst performing pedal instead of just the brake.
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Last edited by Axe77 : 15th April 2022 at 03:03. Reason: Minor language edit.
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