[SS-Traveller]

This is a tragic incident indeed, and the discussions have repeatedly pointed out the cause of the accident to be a suspected front suspension collapse due allegedly to manufacturing / engineering defect.

However, IMO, the intrusion of the 'thrie beam' crash barrier into the cabin, amputating the owner's right leg, is the most shocking outcome of the crash. Crash barriers are supposed to (be designed to) deflect vehicles, not allow them to be impaled when a crash occurs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_YMXGfHo-A&t=155s

In this case, it did. The responsibility for the injury then lies not only with the manufacturer of the vehicle, but with the highway engineers and contractors who installed those barriers, and ultimately with NHAI & MoRTH.

No one appears to be pointing this out.

[Turbanator]

I rechecked the old thread; we had back-and-forth discussions about the setup. I still cannot understand why this tie rod is the only support connecting the top of the shocker assembly. Here are pictures from the thread and Autocar.

If any member who owns one can physically check and post here, it will be easier. Also, the Autocar image looks like a 2-W variant. Is there any difference between 4x4 and 2 W?


https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post5610733 (Mahindra Scorpio-N suspension | Upper wishbone joint failure)

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...st-know-424937

[himanshugoswami]

Official response by Mahindra

https://auto.mahindra.com/-/media/pr...a48e1b29b09a60

Whether one agrees with them or no, the fact that the company has chosen to come out with an official statement is commendable- shows they are at least listening.

[Pythonista]

https://auto.mahindra.com/-/media/pr...a48e1b29b09a60

Something feels fishy here...this contradicts the owners testimony:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QVmgeB...ature=youtu.be

Mahindra claims that the car was overspeeding, while the owner says that he was maintaining an 80-100 kmph speed (not overspeed?).

Also, how is it possible for the car to just burn on its own when being towed when the battery was disconnected?

[MT_Hyderabad]

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

official response by Mahindra

https://auto.mahindra.com/-/media/pr...a48e1b29b09a60

Whether one agrees with them or no, the fact that the company has chosen to come out with an official statement is commendable- shows they are at least listening.

My take on the response from Mahindra.

1. The vehicle speed cycle does not mean that the car was at 120 km/h at the time of impact. If I am driving on an expressway, the car meets elevation and depression and even if I am maintaining 100 km/h, there are times that the speed crosses 110 km/hr easily. What we wanted to know was the speed at the time of accident.

2. Looking at the aftermath, I can safely assume that the car was not doing more than 100 km/hr at the time of impact. The damage would have been a lot more if the car collided at 120 km/hr.

3. The expectation from Mahindra was that they inspect the actual site. The car moved distances after the accident and investigating from just this video is not complete. What distant marks will be visible from this video is debatable.

4. What I would have done: Measured the distance from the ground of the intact guard rails and the distance from the ground of the entry point of the guard rail, this would have made it clear that the car had a wheel at the time of impact not.

5. Customer's response awaited. It appears that he is already in touch with Mahindra. Viewpoint of the customer could have been included, 1 month is not a short time.

6. The cause of the accident as per Mahindra is 'missing' in this response. Reference to a vague statement on speed is insufficient. Was the driver distracted, did he suffer a tyre burst, an animal on road? What was it?

[Venkatesh]

Mahindra official statement regarding the recent Scorpio-N incident.

We wish to address the concerns raised in a recent YouTube video with unverified claims about a Scorpio-N incident. We extend our deepest sympathies to the affected family, and are committed to aiding the injured passenger’s recovery. Full statement:

[ex-innova-guy]

While I appreciate that they have released the statement, this just justifies that the connected car server data is surely a boon as well as a bane. Will this connected car data be released to the victim or an average Joe?

[lawdgawd]

The official statement says 105-122 kmph over the driving cycle, not at the point of the accident. That proves nothing - neither the victim's view nor the company's.

Dealership's proximity - This proves nothing either. It is absolutely possible to burn a vehicle elsewhere - using a vehicle! Does not prove the victim's view or the company's.

Guard rail penetration - that is not the issue here. Did the wheel break free due to a manufacturing defect is the question. Guard rails etc are a different issue which is important.

That takes us to Integrity of ball joint and wheel. This is the part for which now we have the view of the company. There is no reason for us to trust it or not trust it. We do not know enough.

Is there an independent, trustworthy body that looks into the actual cause of the accident? It is their absence (or their perceived absence) that causes speculation on such cases. And the social presence of Anand Mahindra which does not engage with these cases worsens it (again, that proves nothing) but that explains the agitation of people.

[venkyhere]

When the 'statement' is trying to bamboozle the reader with some numbers showing K.E is proportional to v^2 , and uses words like "driving cycle" instead of clearly mentioning the speed at the time of impact ; yet doesn't mention the word 'fire' in it, even though the vehicle burnt some 7 hours after the incident ; but is careful to mention the word 'investigation' but depends on that youtuber's video footage to claim that there are no scratch marks on the road -- it clearly shows a PR team that is hard at work. Why are they not attaching a picture of the 'intact' balljoint which has been established from their 'investigation' ? that would've cleared all doubts once and for all.

To me, this statement is nothing but M&M mocking the intellect and common sense of whoever is reading this.

[Turbanator]

The connected car server data indicates a speed range
of 105-122 km/h during the driving cycle. Operating at a speed of 120 km/h, the vehicle
accumulates a notable 1350 kJ (kilojoules) of energy—more than double the 617 kJ
recorded at a speed of 80 km/h

What does Mahindra want to convey here? Are there cars built to handle speeds up to 80 Km/hr? Have they mentioned such kJ energy pointers in the operating manual warning users to stick to 80 Kmph?

When their speed range server data shows 105-120 km/h, who has given them this liberty to pick and blame the customer for driving at 120 Km/h at the time of the accident and also showing some kJ numbers?

Regarding the marks, some are caused by the rear tyre burst, but I cannot see anything on the driver's side. There is no focus, or maybe I am missing, unable to see the full video of this gory incident.

The extensive penetration of steel guards into the car can be attributed to extremely high speeds.

How can a speed of 105-120 be termed as extremely high speed on the highway, which is designed for 100-120 Kmph?

[LIQUID~THOUGHTS]

Originally Posted by Venkatesh

Mahindra official statement regarding the recent Scorpio-N incident.



Attachment 2551192

It seems that Mahindra's investigation relies solely on widely circulated YouTube footage, rather than deploying their own engineering team to the accident site for a comprehensive examination. I recently traveled on the Samruddhi Mahamarg and noticed that despite being a 300 km stretch from Ghoti to Mehkar, the expressway's development is incomplete, lacking speed cameras on the entire route. Installing surveillance cameras at these critical spots could serve as vital evidence in unfortunate incidents. Considering the common occurrence of vehicles speeding at speeds higher than 120 km/h on this highway, which was designed primarily with cement roads, it appears unsafe. Perhaps the road should ideally accommodate speeds not exceeding 100 km/h to mitigate risks, especially given recent tire burst incidents. During peak hours, temperatures escalate to 45-50 degrees Celsius within the speed limits, further elevating the potential for tire bursts. I urge fellow Bhpians planning to traverse this expressway to cover the majority of its stretch before peak afternoon times for safety precautions.

[master uio]

Ref. M&M's Statement:

I am no vehicle expert nor a detractor of M&M. I learnt driving on a 3 Speed MM (CJ 640 DP) and an Indian Army CJ 3B with an F307 engine and currently love and own two MM550's (Indian Army Stock Condition) Not trying to compare the new generation Scorpio-N with the tried and tested older Jeep designs here. Having canceled my Scorpio-N Z8L 4 XPLOR booking with a with a heavy heart trying to reason with what went wrong with the Scorpio-N in what should have been a routine usage for a modern SUV. The robustness expected from an SUV is clearly missing in the Scorpio-N. (Zero Points, M&M)

1) A Vehicle of this category is expected to handle the said speeds relatively safely However I have come across an Innova which had both front wheels (Post hitting a tree travel 100 to 200 feet away) The Bride and Groom lay unconscious having fallen outside the vehicle. Cause was the driver falling asleep. Here with the Scorpio-N, we are alleging that the wheels came off pre-collision and caused the collision itself based on the Owners narration (Zero Points, M&M)

2) No Vehicle is immune to a dangerously implemented guard rail penetrating into the shell at some speed, discounting that the failure of the suspension led the Scorpio-N into the illdesigned guard rail (Point M&M)

3) Looking for skid marks in a youtube video without physically analysing the crash site (Zero Points, M&M)

4) Legacy is respected and revered by us customers - thats what made the customer turn to M&M for his Scorpio-N purchase. Legacy is routinely tested by the New, Young and Wiser Indian. Nobody is a blind fan anymore (Zero Points, M&M)

5) A Double Wishbone Suspension is extremely complex and a smaller component failing upsets the entire setup quickly. Also very expensive to execute (Honda Accord discontinued D.W. Suspension and resorted to the McPherson due to costs and lesser complexity and maint. Mastered by Mercedes-Benz, Honda and quite a few others. M&M has Zero experience in this and is putting one on a vehicle for the first time on the XUV 700 & Scorpio-N. The vendors and designers of the Front suspension in this case need to determine earnestly if there is a design defect or a manufacturing defect. There have been multiple instances of the front wheel coming off on the Scorpio-N (Have read about atleast 3 to 4 prior instances to this accident within team-bhp and elsewhere on the net) Closer pictures of the Front suspension welds and connections seem crude relative to global manufacturers. There seems to be clearly an inherent weakness in the front suspension as it has let go of the wheel on multiple occassions (Zero Points, M&M)

6) M&M acknowledged the accident/incident and provided an empathatic? but not engineering investigation based response (Zero Points, M&M)

Sorely disappointed that a major Indian automotive players performance on the global stage will be affected.

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by master uio

5)M&M has Zero experience in this and is putting one on a vehicle for the first time on the XUV 700 & Scorpio-N.

XUV700 and Scorpio N aren't the first vehicles from Mahindra to get to front double wishbone suspension. Marazzo was first car from Mahindra to get front double wishbone suspension. Marazzo also got aluminum suspension components along with the car being front wheel drive and having body on frame construction. Does the Scorpio N/XUV700 also have aluminum suspension components ?

We can only anticipate from the video that wheel came off as some incidents regarding front suspension issues are already reported. If its design failure I doubt if this can happen on a smooth highway, may be manufacturing defect.

Lack of proper investigation seems on the horizon with nothing conclusive coming up and this might be forgotten pretty soon.

[master uio]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

XUV700 and Scorpio N aren't the first vehicles from Mahindra to get to front double wishbone suspension. Marazzo was first car from Mahindra to get front double wishbone suspension. Marazzo also got aluminum suspension components along with the car being front wheel drive and having body on frame construction. Does the Scorpio N/XUV700 also have aluminum suspension components ?

We can only anticipate from the video that wheel came off as some incidents regarding front suspension issues are already reported. If its design failure I doubt if this can happen on a smooth highway, may be manufacturing defect.

Lack of proper investigation seems on the horizon with nothing conclusive coming up and this might be forgotten pretty soon.

Stand corrected. Yes, the Marazzo was a great product. Had test driven at the showroom and a friend's upon launch. Nevertheless it was a much lighter and forgiving application in it than the Scorpio-N.
Double Wisbone components on modern cars typically tend to be forged in aluminum - there in lies concerns on shearing off due to brittleness, improper loads offset onto the stressed joints
I hope that the defects are analyzed and corrected and we all can continue to enjoy the Scorpio-N at its price point. One great thing I noticed is that the Diesel Scorpio-N engine performs way smoother than my Petrol 2018 and 2023 VW Tiguan AWD'S in the USA

[giri1.8]

First they advertise their car's high-speed stability extensively, now they blame the customer for doing sane speed on the highway! Does this mean it's dangerous to drive the new Scorpio N above 100km/hr?

Most disgusting part about this is revealing customer's personal data collected using connected car tech, did they get the customer's consent before doing this?