[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

I saw someone saying he has checked the other guys garage, "found" out that he owns a particular car of a particular mfr & hence that other guy was biased.

I think you got me wrong there. I did not mean that there is anything wrong in checking any tbhp-ian's tbhp-garage. Just that an easier way to find out where his loyalties lie is to read up a few of his posts. Sorry for the confusion.

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

yes other SX4 owners hv the same right to voice their opinion. Dont you feel they shd hv just voiced their opinion & stopped there rather than addressing (or shall we say "judging") the other member individually, calling him "Maruti Baiter", "SX4 Baiter" etc).

Look up Amit's first post on this thread, which was started by drashkum to get pointers in his confusion about SX4 or Linea. Amit's post if you read it, is not about 'his' SX4, but SX4 in general - as in 'SX4 is dead till 2500rpm", "SX4 NVH is zero", SX4 ride is awful" etc. And do you see anything about the Linea there, other than a reference to it having Blue&Me ? No. So, what do you think this would look like to a SX4 owner ? SX4 baiting, I would think.

I am not saying his opinion about the SX4 is wrong or he is lying. But others could have a different opinion, right ? And in such case, they would think he is junking the car.

Originally Posted by xPK

if "people look for far more things than mileage and A.S.S", can all the SX4 owners, tell me the reasons why they chosen SX4 over fiesta (petrol)?

I know this is OT here, and I also know that you are not really doing this for increasing knowledge, but since you asked, here go the reasons. When the SX4 was released, I don't think the Fiesta had the safety features that the former had ie. dual airbags + ABS. Later they added driver airbag and then dual airbags in Fiesta. Isn't safety features a reason enough ? I am sure many people like Amit (and me - we got a Swift-Zxi just for the airbags and ABS) give lots of importance to the presence of these features. Other interesting stuff could be the steering mounted audio controls which Fiesta does not have or the high G.C. that helps it fly over humps.

Ofcourse Fiesta also has its strong points where the SX4 would fail, but then no car is perfect and you pick the one that meets most of your requirements.

Originally Posted by xPK

Personally if I have to choose a car between SX4 and Fiesta, I would go for SX4, especially for A.S.S.

Boss, as it stands today, for a Maruti vehicle, A.S.S is a given - no one really thinks about it. So, if they bring out a new car, what the consumer does is to evaluate/check-out the car. He does not start thinking that "Oh, Maruti has great A.S.S, so let me just go and buy their new offering". On the contrary, if one were thinking of buying a Fiat, A.S.S would figure high up on the agenda (since A.S.S. history is bad for Fiat here), because even though you know its a good car and like it lots, service/spares is something no car owner can do without.

[joy_swift]

SupremeBaleno - Couldnt agree more....Absolutely spot-on..

A feature you missed the SX4 has which the Fiesta doesnt have is Automatic Climate Control and 16" alloys ..

Also,good that you pointed out that Maruti showed the way with the safety features(ABS,EBD,Airbags) to all car manufacturers and that includes highly respected HONDA....

Amit's post gives the impression even an Alto is better than the SX4 to which the other owners vehemently objected...Fair enough!!!

[xPK]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Boss, as it stands today, for a Maruti vehicle, A.S.S is a given - no one really thinks about it. So, if they bring out a new car, what the consumer does is to evaluate/check-out the car. He does not start thinking that "Oh, Maruti has great A.S.S, so let me just go and buy their new offering". On the contrary, if one were thinking of buying a Fiat, A.S.S would figure high up on the agenda (since A.S.S. history is bad for Fiat here), because even though you know its a good car and like it lots, service/spares is something no car owner can do without.

Boss, you are just missing the point what I'm trying to make. I never said people buy cars just if A.S.S. is good. What I'm saying is A.S.S. plays the big role in choosing the car. I'm saying, A.S.S. is the biggest advantage for going with Maruti.

And as I can see, you seem to agree that "A.S.S." is important (one of the top listed priorities). That was my other point, but joy_swift doesn't seem to agree that.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

but since you asked, here go the reasons. When the SX4 was released, I don't think the Fiesta had the safety features that the former had ie. dual airbags + ABS. Later they added driver airbag and then dual airbags in Fiesta. Isn't safety features a reason enough ? I am sure many people like Amit (and me - we got a Swift-Zxi just for the airbags and ABS) give lots of importance to the presence of these features. Other interesting stuff could be the steering mounted audio controls which Fiesta does not have or the high G.C. that helps it fly over humps.

Yup completely agree. SX4 definitely scored some big ones on Airbags + ABS (ofcourse when they were not offered in Fiesta). And also some points on G.C and steering mounted controls.

Originally Posted by joy_swift

A feature you missed the SX4 has which the Fiesta doesnt have is Automatic Climate Control and 16" alloys..

No hesitation on agreement.

As SB mentions A.S.S. is important (hope it's not my assumption), it would be great if joy_swift could tell me how many of following are true,
ABS is important than A.S.S.
Airbags are important than A.S.S.
GC is important than A.S.S.
ACC is important than A.S.S.
Alloys are important than A.S.S.
(don't compare everything collectively against A.S.S. because nobody buys a car just for A.S.S., rather nobody buys a car if only one of the expectation is met.)

Again, please note I'm not saying maruti's have only A.S.S.

[supremeBaleno]

@xPK, what is your whole point ? You are comparing features of the car like ABS, airbags etc with A.S.S., which does not sound logical to me. A.S.S. is one of the many factors in car purchase. Maybe as per you, that is the biggest attraction in a Maruti, but that need not be the case for everyone else.

Hyundai has a pretty decent A.S.S. and comparable with Maruti - so it is not like people lack options and are tied to only Maruti on A.S.S factor. Instead of the Baleno, I could have got an Accent at almost same price and almost similar A.S.S. - so if I still chose Baleno, there should be something about the car that attracted me.

Maybe you would know this by Dec 2009 when you make your car purchase, after evaluating all factors. Till then all this discussion is just hypothetical.

[grvanand]

Originally Posted by joy_swift

Also,good that you pointed out that Maruti showed the way with the safety features(ABS,EBD,Airbags) to all car manufacturers and that includes highly respected HONDA....

Amit's post gives the impression even an Alto is better than the SX4 to which the other owners vehemently objected...Fair enough!!!

Totally O.T. here, just because Maruti brought out a car some time back with features such as airbag, abs, etc, do not earn any brownie points on this day. For all that matter, its was FIAT to bring out these features in the affordable car segment to carry these very features, its all there in my Palio 1.6 GTX SP. Today, in the mid size car segment, there is no doubt about the fact that Linea is the most VFM product, it carries lot more additional features which have been time and again discussed in this forum.

Also, Amit's post doesn't give such an impression to me, he never compared SX4 with Alto, his benchmark as I see is the Palio 1.6, he is not a distinguised bhpian for nothing, I agree with most of his views in this topic here.

As I understand here, the topic is about which car is more VFM of the two, so Linea is my option.

[joy_swift]

Originally Posted by xPK

ABS is important than A.S.S.
Airbags are important than A.S.S.
GC is important than A.S.S.
ACC is important than A.S.S.
Alloys are important than A.S.S.

Truly hilarious...Cant stop laughing...Pretty illogical comparisons...

I agree with SB that A.S.S of many manufacturers is decent like Maruti,Hyundai,even Ford to an extent....So that cant be the sole determining factor in buying a car...

Also the example of the Baleno vs the Accent proved the point...Nice one..

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Look up Amit's first post on this thread, which was started by drashkum to get pointers in his confusion about SX4 or Linea. Amit's post if you read it, is not about 'his' SX4, but SX4 in general - as in 'SX4 is dead till 2500rpm", "SX4 NVH is zero", SX4 ride is awful" etc. And do you see anything about the Linea there, other than a reference to it having Blue&Me ? No. So, what do you think this would look like to a SX4 owner ? SX4 baiting, I would think.

I am not saying his opinion about the SX4 is wrong or he is lying. But others could have a different opinion, right ? And in such case, they would think he is junking the car.

When the SX4 was released, I don't think the Fiesta had the safety features that the former had ie. dual airbags + ABS. Later they added driver airbag and then dual airbags in Fiesta. Isn't safety features a reason enough ? I am sure many people like Amit (and me - we got a Swift-Zxi just for the airbags and ABS) give lots of importance to the presence of these features.

When the SX4 was released, I don't think the Fiesta had the safety features that the former had ie. dual airbags + ABS. Later they added driver airbag and then dual airbags in Fiesta. Isn't safety features a reason enough ? I am sure many people like Amit (and me - we got a Swift-Zxi just for the airbags and ABS) give lots of importance to the presence of these features. Other interesting stuff could be the steering mounted audio controls which Fiesta does not have or the high G.C. that helps it fly over humps.

SB - to a certain degree I agree with you. However, in the last line of his post Amit has mentioned that if he has a chance to (re)buy a sedan, he would go for ANHC which in later post he changed to Fiesta S (Linea is not featuring there, you see).

Secondly, if an individual has 2 cars - 1 car is exceeding his expectation & the other Car which is even costlier is not performing to his expectations, why can't he say that car is bad. that's his view. And for us consumers, a car or a mfr is as good as the product/ piece we're using. If my Ford Ikon fails to perform to my expectations, to me, Ford Ikon as a car & Ford as a company has failed me (i.e. for me, Ford Ikon as a car is as good as the piece I'm using). How does it matter to me if others are happy about it. My point is - can't amit have his bad views about SX4 & others have their very good views about SX4? Threadstarted & readers will take what they want. That's what I did when I was making my decision.

Agree with you on features SX4 brought for the 1st time in C Seg. I mentioned it in my 1st post on this very thread (didn't remember till grvanand mentioned here that Palio was actually the 1st car to bring them here)

Agreed with your 3rd point also. That's what precisely I did in last 1.5 months. I ran a search on t-bhp on "fiat service issues", & studied those extensively as I believe when I'm making a decision, 1st I must give importance to the owners who had bad experiences then I can move on to owners with good experiences

Originally Posted by grvanand

Totally O.T. here, just because Maruti brought out a car some time back with features such as airbag, abs, etc, do not earn any brownie points on this day. For all that matter, its was FIAT to bring out these features in the affordable car segment to carry these very features, its all there in my Palio 1.6 GTX SP. Today, in the mid size car segment, there is no doubt about the fact that Linea is the most VFM product, it carries lot more additional features which have been time and again discussed in this forum.

Also, Amit's post doesn't give such an impression to me, he never compared SX4 with Alto, his benchmark as I see is the Palio 1.6, he is not a distinguised bhpian for nothing, I agree with most of his views in this topic here.

As I understand here, the topic is about which car is more VFM of the two, so Linea is my option.

grvanand - agree with you. to me, amit's post were alright. He has even acknowledged others saying given a choice he would buy ANHC (Honda) or a Fiesta (Ford). This defies statements suggesting that he is fiat fanboy & Maruti baiter. To me, his views on both were his experiences with both the cars he has

[vnabhi]

A small correction, guys---the Fiesta did have ABS much before SX4 was released. It did not have the airbags though at that point of time.
Thanks to feature-rich SX4, most manufacturers had to follow suit. Unfortunately, though SX4 has many novel features, there are complaints galore about the quality of those frills--like lousy-sounding ICE, cheap buttons for the power windows that are not even back-lit, non-functioning of audio controls on steeing if one changes the head unit,etc.
I don't want to continue this war, but I feel it was good of Amit to bring out pros and cons of his SX4, so that a potential customer is better informed than going by the blind belief that any car from the Maruti stable has got to be great.

[joy_swift]

Vnabhi - Agreed SX4 has issues with some areas but so does every other car. Fiesta stereo sound quality is poor,rear seats cramped,no climate control. Basically looks a segment lower than the SX4.

As many had mentioned repeatedly,from Amit's post it was clear that SX4 has actually any positives because the positives were all mentioned in a different thread. Thats why it caused lots of confusion.

[supremeBaleno]

@vnabhi, guess i was wrong about the Fiesta ABS thing.

Originally Posted by grvanand

just because Maruti brought out a car some time back with features such as airbag, abs, etc, do not earn any brownie points on this day. For all that matter, its was FIAT to bring out these features in the affordable car segment to carry these very features

No one denies that Fiat was way ahead of its time when it gave these features in its hatch. But by your own argument, if what MSIL did 2 years ago itself is no big deal, what is the point in bringing in something Fiat did 10 years ago ?

Originally Posted by grvanand

Today, in the mid size car segment, there is no doubt about the fact that Linea is the most VFM product, it carries lot more additional features which have been time and again discussed in this forum.

I don't think VFM is about just features and anyway what is VFM varies from person to person. For you, the Linea is VFM, while for someone else, it might be some other car.

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

in the last line of his post Amit has mentioned that if he has a chance to (re)buy a sedan, he would go for ANHC which in later post he changed to Fiesta S (Linea is not featuring there, you see).

See the thing is this thread is not about what Amit thinks in hindsight about his purchase decision - for that he has his SX4 LTR thread. Neither is this about the ANHC or Fiesta. Or even the Palio which people find it necessary to drag into each and every thread.

This thread is about the SX4 and the Linea. Instead of comparing SX4 with his Palio, he could have compared it with Linea. But then, since the Linea is nowhere near the SX4 on performance, it is convenient to bring in the Palio to make up for the lack of performance.

Anyway this will get nowhere till drashkum takes a TD of both cars and posts his opinion - after all he is the one shelling out the dough.

@drashkum, instead of waiting for Fiat and MSIL dealers to sync their TD timings and come over to your place, I would suggest you just drive to both showrooms, do a TD and get it over with.

[vnabhi]

Originally Posted by joy_swift

Vnabhi - Agreed SX4 has issues with some areas but so does every other car. Fiesta stereo sound quality is poor,rear seats cramped,no climate control. Basically looks a segment lower than the SX4.

As many had mentioned repeatedly,from Amit's post it was clear that SX4 has actually any positives because the positives were all mentioned in a different thread. Thats why it caused lots of confusion.

There you go, another war is starting. I refrain from commenting, though I find most of your observations erroneous.
Let us stick to the thread title.

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by vnabhi

There you go, another war is starting. I refrain from commenting, though I find most of your observations erroneous.
Let us stick to the thread title.

Well said, vnabhi

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

See the thing is this thread is not about what Amit thinks in hindsight about his purchase decision - for that he has his SX4 LTR thread.

Yes, lets go back to the thread title

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

This thread is about the SX4 and the Linea. Instead of comparing SX4 with his Palio, he could have compared it with Linea. But then, since the Linea is nowhere near the SX4 on performance, it is convenient to bring in the Palio to make up for the lack of performance.

Sharing my TD experience this month - I've TD'ed SX4 & Linea both twice each. I felt SX4 was heavy, sluggish with slightly difficult maneuvering. Also the smoothness of drive was a question mark. Hence, for me, SX4 lacked performance (performance as per my requirement & my defination, others may have diff requirement). Linea on the other hand, though stated underpowered by many, I did not feel lack of power & found it alright, again as per my requirements.
It was a difficult decision - While I had earlier decided for SX4, I had to really force my head to listen to my heart. Couldn't ignore those imp Ride Qualities when I spend 3-4 hours daily in my car in Mumbai traffic. In worst come worst scenario, I told myself that its ok to compromise 6-10 bad days a year (when you visit service station) than to feel unhappy for rest 355-360 days. Of course, these are my individual views/ thoughts & since It's I who was going to pay some 8L rupees for the car, I gave it more weigthage

[joy_swift]

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

Sharing my TD experience this month - I've TD'ed SX4 & Linea both twice each. I felt SX4 was heavy, sluggish with slightly difficult maneuvering. Also the smoothness of drive was a question mark. Hence, for me, SX4 lacked performance (performance as per my requirement & my defination, others may have diff requirement). Linea on the other hand, though stated underpowered by many, I did not feel lack of power & found it alright, again as per my requirements.
It was a difficult decision - While I had earlier decided for SX4, I had to really force my head to listen to my heart. Couldn't ignore those imp Ride Qualities when I spend 3-4 hours daily in my car in Mumbai traffic. In worst come worst scenario, I told myself that its ok to compromise 6-10 bad days a year (when you visit service station) than to feel unhappy for rest 355-360 days. Of course, these are my individual views/ thoughts & since It's I who was going to pay some 8L rupees for the car, I gave it more weigthage

Thats well said and have to agree with that....Linea is the car for you...

I also did a TD of both the cars and the Linea stuggled to get to 100(atleast 3-4 secs slower than the SX4) which matters to me a lot....Linea with a 1.2 TPetrol would have ideal...Now with the small engine,its really an underperformer from my perspective....And that killed it....So have decided to go for the SX4

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team : Please take the time to use proper punctuation as per Team-BHP rules. Avoid...typing...like...this. Thanks.

[mail4loys]

The main reason for me to buy SX4 was :

1) The safety features it provided
2) It ground clearance

I did a test drive of Linea and comparatively i didnt feel SX4 sluggish but rather the other way round (purely my point of view). I would only say that SX4 is not that cheap car which can be discounted easily! Please test drive both and select your best fit.

[drashkum]

i had the vehicle brought to my doorstep by someother dealer ( concord) yesterday thought i couldnt get hold of the sx4. but had some valuble impressions printed in my brain though. the dealer brought a minimal grey petrol emotion pack model after a lot of hussle finding the correct path to my house.

was waiting at the doorstep to see how the car looks when some one else drives ( though i personally dont like the looks too much , which my wife raves about). to my surprise the car looked decent and resonalbly good seeing it from distance and there were indeed a bevy of onlookers giving curious and admiring looks ( admiration guaranteed!!! came into my mind).

i had the vehicle brought to my doorstep by someother dealer ( concord) yesterday thought i couldnt get hold of the sx4. but had some valuble impressions printed in my brain though. the dealer brought a minimal grey petrol emotion pack model after a lot of hussle finding the correct path to my house.

was waiting at the doorstep to see how the car looks when some one else drives ( though i personally dont like the looks too much , which my wife raves about). to my surprise the car looked decent and resonalbly good seeing it from distance and there were indeed a bevy of onlookers giving curious and admiring looks ( admiration guaranteed!!! came into my mind).

then the executive came apologising for taking long time for finding the way.

had my mom/dad/uncle/aunt to have a look at the car. my dad/ mom/ uncle liked the looks but not my aunt.

dad liked the chrome finishing and the boot (looks small but i heared the exec. say it 500 ltrs. big for the small looks). had a good boot lamp. it has a remote boot lid opening facility which sx4 does not have, assisted by hydraulic opener. though i found it a tad tough when closing the boot unlike sx4 which closed at the touch of my finger.

inspection of
the doors: PRETTY SOLID FEEL. just like verna!!. heavy. built my confidence of solidity. had side impact beams. had a chrome plated handle which opened with ease. one thing i noted is that the inside of the handles were painted unlike other cars ( dont know whats its use though!!). inside had a neat finish with dual tone beige and black finish with inside gripping handles for all passengers. had a child lock for rear passenger door ith keyless remote central door locking. only con is that all the doors didnt close with a a touch one has to use some force to close the doors which closed with a loud thud!!!. asked the executive why is this!!. he said its a european norm that all doors close with thud with some force as doors have to be solid ( team - bhp is this true??). dad retorted saying in premier padmini too which he owned he faced the same thing.

the bonnet: opened the bonnet with the knob inside. had to fish out the knob inside the bonnet ( how id love to have the knob just like fiesta which jutts out of the grill for opening the bonnet). bonnet looked spacious and neatly alligned. couldnt see much detail as i dont know anything much about engines and stuff. ( what the mind does not know eyes do not see). was told that linea had FPS( fire prevention system which cuts off the fuel supply to engine as intantly in case of accident) which i dont want to happen.
again the closure of the bonnet is with a thud. god help!! cant fiat do some refinement about closure of boot/doors/bonnet.

one pro for linea: the fuel lid was on the right side of the car unlike others which i owned. a true conveinence which fuelling.

INTERIORS
were a tad dirty. was told that car has been on test drive since morning so dirty. had a dual tone interiors which looked receptive.
the steering and gear knob was leather wrapped. the steering had a groove for the thumb for firm holding which felt good.

the odometer and disply looked old fashioned white in colour with multiple lights ( looked like old 70's dash but thats just my opinion). had a orangish multi information display. the central console too looked a bit plain and classic and old fashioned to me with stereo console and ACC. HAD AIRBAGS WRITTEN ON STEERING AND CO DRIVERS WHICH MADE ME FEEL SECURE. there was a drivers arm rest 3 point adjustable with a glove box a welcome relief ( sx4 didnt have a arm rest which i believe is a comfort on highways) as i have a spectacle storage place. the dash board glove box was sort of ok but hit my knee when i sat on co driver seat and opened it. i would have wanted it to be more spacious like verna but found it to be tiny. no a/c connection to the glove box. how i would have liked it just like i20 or fabia. nothing like sipping a chilled beer while riding on a hot summer afternoon!!!
it had a microsoft console with USB CONNECTIVITY. great feature to plug in my ipod . BUT WHAT A SILLY PLACE TO HOUSE IT . CANT THEY KEEP IT IN CENTRE CONSOLE. the glove box is already cramped now its all more crampy. i wouldny have known it housed the usb unless the executive told me.
the front end upto windsheild looked big giving all the more big look to the car. in verna i will not be even able to keep a cd pouch on the front dash as it would fall of time and again. but linea looked like it can keep. it.

the leg room is good. but my wife used to sit cross legged on the seat in verna but she said she wasnt comfortable to sit like that in linea due to want of space. the breadth o the seat was small compared to verna. thank god she is not going to make the seat dirty again!!.

the sore point the seats were hard!! very hard!! truely uncomfortable!!. i have to do something about the seats .

ad the usual electrically adjustable power orvm ( BUT WAS TOLD THAT ITS A HEATED ONE. ONCE THE REAR DEFOGGER IS ON IT ALSO DEMYSTIFIES THE MIRROR WOW!!. SEEMS THE REAR DEMISTIFIER IS ALSO A TIMED ONE).

ALL THE WINDOWS ARE POWERED AND ONE TOUCH DOWN FROM NOT ONLY DRIVERS CONSOLE BUT FROM PASSENGERS CONSOLE AS WELL
ONLY DRIVERS WINDOW IS AUTO UP AS WELL. windows as per the manual is tinted but i couldnt find any tint there

sore point: the back windows goes only half down . was told that its a trademark of fiat!! i remeber premier padmini also had some thing. but never mind i never open my windows when the a/c is on.

sore point: the driver seat slider is too low one has to bend down to really pull it. and the hight adjusted knob looks too flimsy as if one pull would make it come off to my hand

tried to pull back my seat farthest back and went to rear seat.. to my surprise the rear legroom was also good
SEATING POSITION WAS COMFORTABLE. my mom retorted saying 5 people can travel comfortably in this. unlike the rear hump in sx4.

a welcome sign was a rear a/c vent in the middle and a duct for a/c under driver seat for a/c as well for feet for rear passengers.

my mom will never complain the lack of a/c for some time .

a plus point: it had a rear sun curtain which can be useful in india conditions and also helps in effective cooling of a/c

the cupholder when let down exposed the steel plate inside the seat . gosh why cant a mnc like fiat cover these things up

stereo:
is a blaupunkt. sounds great especially the mids!!. has 4 speakers and 4 tweeters on doors pretty convincing!!

one more plus pioint especially for women fiolks is that it has a vanity mirror on driver and co driver side and each vanity mirror has a lamp too.

. various other small things were titlable steering/ dead footrest as in verna and other blah blah which other cars have.

one feature which the executive told me was follow me head lights!! . if u switch on follow me and when u go home in the dark, even after switching off the engine and shutting off the headlight , it glows for 30 seconds and then shuts off automatically to guide the passengers from parking to home!!. this not much of a use for me but for some others this would be a blessing i suppose.

contd.....( due to lack of time i am posting this ill continue the rest tonight)