[vamsi.kona]

Originally Posted by buzzy_boy

Wait, are you saying that the head constable, in my circle, who demanded a bribe to file a FIR is actually under-paid?

I think, based on what I have seen in my state only, that the salaries of government employees did improve drastically over the last decade or more. While they obviously cannot match a high paying IT job, even in private sector not many jobs match high paying IT jobs. So that shouldn't be an issue.

With regards your quote, can there be a limit for greed? . Keeping that aspect aside, police jobs, especially in an overpopulated and under staffed nation like us, are very stressful. Both for the corrupt and honest officers alike. The corrupt just try to get higher compensation

[Stribog]

Originally Posted by buzzy_boy

Wait, are you saying that the head constable, in my circle, who demanded a bribe to file a FIR is actually under-paid?

A Head constable makes around 40k a month in a city like Mumbai or Madras. Do you seriously think that's a good salary for this role?

Originally Posted by GoBabyGo

Hello - As per my reading in various economic forums, 64% of GST is collected from Poor, Lower Middle Class, Middle Class & Upper Middle Class. Contribution of Rich in GST is much lower than of rest of the class. I will be happy to correct myself, if I am wrong.

Hey GoBabyGo,

GST is a consumption tax. By its very nature it will be distributed alongside the income distribution of any country. Let me give you an auto themed example.

India sells

A) 13 million 2 wheelers every year. That's let's assume the lower middle and middle middle.

B) Of the 300,000 cars it sells on average the the B segment is around 1,20,000. C segment is around 1,70,000 iirc. The D segment is around 5,000 and premium is 700-800.

See the skew? It's clear that in total terms Bikes and B Segments generate most GST. That's the poorer, middle class. The richest (the premium owners) obviously spend upwards of 1cr per unit but the cumulative tax value is low.

[buzzy_boy]

Originally Posted by Stribog

A Head constable makes around 40k a month in a city like Mumbai or Madras. Do you seriously think that's a good salary for this role?

A BE grad who designs circuits for a startup earns 15K per month. A private sector employee doesn't have "guaranteed income till retirement" - which is a huge benefit (just ask the loan sales-people).

My point is compensation should be determined by the demand and supply. I'm certain that literally thousands of equally qualified youngsters would be willing to work for much less salary- if it comes with the guaranteed income rider.

Nit: If Bombay= Mumbai, then Madras should've been Chennai!

[GoBabyGo]

Originally Posted by Stribog

A Head constable makes around 40k a month in a city like Mumbai or Madras. Do you seriously think that's a good salary for this role?



Hey GoBabyGo,

GST is a consumption tax. By its very nature it will be distributed alongside the income distribution of any country. Let me give you an auto themed example.

India sells

A) 13 million 2 wheelers every year. That's let's assume the lower middle and middle middle.

B) Of the 300,000 cars it sells on average the the B segment is around 1,20,000. C segment is around 1,70,000 iirc. The D segment is around 5,000 and premium is 700-800.

See the skew? It's clear that in total terms Bikes and B Segments generate most GST. That's the poorer, middle class. The richest (the premium owners) obviously spend upwards of 1cr per unit but the cumulative tax value is low.

Hi Stribog - Your comments are absolutely correct. It is just that I feel majority of expensive cars, SUVs etc. are owned by companies / owners of business (company car policy or owned by owners of company) and in most cases they get some sort of benefits GST input credit or some other way.

[ValarMorghulis]

Originally Posted by GoBabyGo

Hi Stribog - Your comments are absolutely correct. It is just that I feel majority of expensive cars, SUVs etc. are owned by companies / owners of business (company car policy or owned by owners of company) and in most cases they get some sort of benefits GST input credit or some other way.

When it comes to financial numbers, facts triumph feelings

[RaghuVis]

We might be the only country where we cheer for higher tax collection!

[chinkara]

Originally Posted by vamsi.kona

This image also suggests increase in New GSTIN and Migration to GST on a consistent basis.

Great data, and thanks for the digging I was too lazy to do. Only 1 caveat, the new GSTIN data may not be that representative. In our company we have opened new GSTINs as we have opened new offices. Simple - you pay rent and maintenance, there is GSTIN input in that. Utilities refuse to take, say, an address in Delhi for a Haryana bill. So simply to get credit, you create a GSTIN in Haryana.
Other small businesses can share their data, but we now have 6 GSTINs for essentially the same business we were managing with 3 during COVID.

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

We might be the only country where we cheer for higher tax collection!

That is fine. Everyone acknowledges we need more revenue for infrastructure and "levelling up". As long as it is done without overburdening, it is ok. Non-GST sales are inherently inequitable as a part of the treasury loss goes to protection rackets. So the more that shrinks, the better it is for overall economic health.

[vamsi.kona]

Originally Posted by chinkara

In our company we have opened new GSTINs as we have opened new offices.

If I deduce that for every GSTIN returns are filed seperately, would that be correct?. If so the number of returns filed also may not be an appropriate measure.

Lastly, do all the GSTIN's within an organisation have any unique string or such thing linking them together or are they completely different and random?.

[Everlearner]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

We might be the only country where we cheer for higher tax collection!

It depends on how the higher tax collection came through.

More tax from same number of people should NOT be cheered!

Same tax from more number of people can be cheered!

[DigitalOne]

Originally Posted by vamsi.kona

If I deduce that for every GSTIN returns are filed seperately, would that be correct?. If so the number of returns filed also may not be an appropriate measure.

Lastly, do all the GSTIN's within an organisation have any unique string or such thing linking them together or are they completely different and random?.

The first two digits of the GSTIN are the state code. The next ten characters are the PAN of the company. The last 3 characters are some classification codes and check digits used by the GST Network.

If a company is operating out of 8 states as an example, they will have 8 GSTIN registrations with the 10 PAN characters (from 3 to 12) common. Each GSTIN has to file returns separately.

The number of GSTINs or number of returns filed is still a good indicator for growth. It either means more companies are filing returns or some companies are expanding into newer states.

[Stribog]

Originally Posted by buzzy_boy

A BE grad who designs circuits for a startup earns 15K per month. A private sector employee doesn't have "guaranteed income till retirement" - which is a huge benefit (just ask the loan sales-people).

My point is compensation should be determined by the demand and supply. I'm certain that literally thousands of equally qualified youngsters would be willing to work for much less salary- if it comes with the guaranteed income rider.

Nit: If Bombay= Mumbai, then Madras should've been Chennai!

Hey BB, I don't think this is a fair comparison. A head constable has been in the force for 10-15 years, controls 5-10 policemen, has to do everything from Bandobast to homicide investigations, faces violence and in certain parts of the country a definite threat to life and limb.

To attract a better quality of people, salaries need to be upped.

Fair, Bombay and Madras or Mumbai and Chennai are the correct usages.

Originally Posted by GoBabyGo

Hi Stribog - Your comments are absolutely correct. It is just that I feel majority of expensive cars, SUVs etc. are owned by companies / owners of business (company car policy or owned by owners of company) and in most cases they get some sort of benefits GST input credit or some other way.

Sirji company or private owner, GST in a car is baked in. You get rebates in your IT. GST is indirect taxes. IT is direct.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by GoBabyGo

Hi Stribog - Your comments are absolutely correct. It is just that I feel majority of expensive cars, SUVs etc. are owned by companies / owners of business (company car policy or owned by owners of company) and in most cases they get some sort of benefits GST input credit or some other way.

This is a misunderstanding even some business people have. You will get input tax credit only if the item under question is an input cost to your business transaction. If a businessman buys a car for his everyday use in company name, the GST on that cannot be considered for ITC. If the company buys yellow board vehicles for doing business, like taxis or transport trucks, then ITC is available. Buying white plate cars in business name won't avail ITC. You can save on depreciation, since it is on asset list, that's about it.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Monthly GST revenues more than ₹1.4 lakh crore for 12 months in a row, with ₹1.6 lakh crore crossed for the 2nd time since inception of GST

Continuing on from my previous post which stirred a few up a bit I notice, the GST collections in April came in at Rs 187,035 crores up 12% year on year over April 2022. The economy is growing at say 6%, maybe 5.5%, certainly not the 7% the FM hopes or prays it grows at. So at least for April this seems a GDP growth + Inflation figure. Now that our tax collection seems to be growing healthy on a sustained basis, though still too early to call it a permanent shift, what we need is efficiency & effectiveness on the spend side of things. We also need simplicity and lower arrogance on the tax man's behaviour and interface with the paying public. Right now we abound in the feudal attitudes of the landlord's draconian tax man versus the hapless serf. Sadly, the political class and the bureaucratic class refuse to recognize this as an area that needs reform. We have another generation worth of work. Having dealt with them for a lifetime I fervently believe that the solution lies in increased user friendly digitization and reduced interface with the tax worthy married to simpler rules and lower need for interpretation. I genuinely don't believe their attitudes or culture can change. The puffery is too dear to them. It is a part of the spoils. The assumptions that all tax payers beyond a certain level are crooks is also too deep rooted. I hope I see this in my life time.

Originally Posted by GoBabyGo

Hello - As per my reading in various economic forums, 64% of GST is collected from Poor, Lower Middle Class, Middle Class & Upper Middle Class. Contribution of Rich in GST is much lower than of rest of the class. I will be happy to correct myself, if I am wrong.

Others have already addressed this well. GST by definition is on consumption. It is directly proportional to what you spend. By and large a person earning Rs 10 lakhs a month will spend more than a person earning say Rs 50,000 a month. Agree? But yes, you have a point in that as the number of lower middle class are several times greater than the number of rich class the total INR collected might be higher from the lower middle than the rich. The rich then pay indirect tax in other forms on the big items they buy like the securities tax, the stamping duty on real estate purchases or tax on forex remittances all of which don't count under GST.

[chinkara]

Originally Posted by vamsi.kona

If I deduce that for every GSTIN returns are filed seperately, would that be correct?. If so the number of returns filed also may not be an appropriate measure.

Lastly, do all the GSTIN's within an organisation have any unique string or such thing linking them together or are they completely different and random?.

A. Yes. We now split receipts across offices to get full GST credit

B. No. The strings are state specific.

[GoBabyGo]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Continuing on from my previous post which stirred a few up a bit I notice, the GST collections in April came in at Rs 187,035 crores up 12% year on year over April 2022. The economy is growing at say 6%, maybe 5.5%, certainly not the 7% the FM hopes or prays it grows at. So at least for April this seems a GDP growth + Inflation figure. Now that our tax collection seems to be growing healthy on a sustained basis, though still too early to call it a permanent shift, what we need is efficiency & effectiveness on the spend side of things. We also need simplicity and lower arrogance on the tax man's behaviour and interface with the paying public. Right now we abound in the feudal attitudes of the landlord's draconian tax man versus the hapless serf. Sadly, the political class and the bureaucratic class refuse to recognize this as an area that needs reform. We have another generation worth of work. Having dealt with them for a lifetime I fervently believe that the solution lies in increased user friendly digitization and reduced interface with the tax worthy married to simpler rules and lower need for interpretation. I genuinely don't believe their attitudes or culture can change. The puffery is too dear to them. It is a part of the spoils. The assumptions that all tax payers beyond a certain level are crooks is also too deep rooted. I hope I see this in my life time.



Others have already addressed this well. GST by definition is on consumption. It is directly proportional to what you spend. By and large a person earning Rs 10 lakhs a month will spend more than a person earning say Rs 50,000 a month. Agree? But yes, you have a point in that as the number of lower middle class are several times greater than the number of rich class the total INR collected might be higher from the lower middle than the rich. The rich then pay indirect tax in other forms on the big items they buy like the securities tax, the stamping duty on real estate purchases or tax on forex remittances all of which don't count under GST.

Hello, I would like to stand corrected on GST refund to companies / businesses. My apologies.

As per my understanding India has very high populations of poor to upper middle class. It may be 132 cr. out of 142 cr. population we have. If we assume 4 members per family than 33 cr. poor to middle class families and 2.5 cr families of Rich to Very Rich class.

Only problem I see with higher GST collection vs price of commodities since last 2/3 years that 33 cr. families are paying price beyond their easy to afford / buying capabilities as majority of items they buy are essential to live which definitely impact their saving for the future.

I may be wrong on above, but as of now I am really worried being a slightly above middle class myself and I know why I give the above statement.