[hserus]

Cows milk has yellowish fat, buffalo milk has white fat, so you can tell for yourself. What you get is generally buffalo milk for the simple reason that buffaloes generally yield much more milk per capita than a cow does. And buffalo milk is just as nutritious as cow's milk.

The state milk marketing federations don't make a distinction between cow and buffalo milk when selling it, which is quite correct of them.

Doesn't make a difference, people don't absorb the behavioral qualities of cows (gentleness??) or buffaloes (stupidity??) by drinking their milk.

Originally Posted by rajeev k

I had been using The Kerala Co-operative Milk Marketing Federation's "Milma" milk but of late (since 2 to 3 years) shifted to Karnataka Milk Federation's "Nandini' brand.

I have been hearing that many branded cow's milk are also blended with buffalo milk.

Is it true?

[joe1980]

Originally Posted by hserus

as well as "nationalist" whatsapp forwards promoting desi cows. That's all, nothing more and with zero relationship to truth.

For this very purpose, the protests that are currently happening is worth it. What is wrong in promoting desi cows? We have indigenous breed, why not protect it and why not promote it? I do not know the scientific value behind A1 and A2 milk, but coming from a family of farmers, I can confirm that the milk that we got from cows with a hump in the back was less fatty than the ones that we got from non-hump cows!

[hserus]

Do you use milk cattle for bull fighting?

That less fatty milk means less yield of butter, ghee etc so such cow breeds are improved by cross breeding with higher yield breeds both desi such as murrah buffalo with local buffalo as well as foreign breeds such as Holstein (which also produces so called a2) and jersey.

There are reasons to protect and enhance local breeds mostly related to genetic diversity but milk being more nutritious is not a scientifically accurate or valid reason

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by hserus

The state milk marketing federations don't make a distinction between cow and buffalo milk when selling it, which is quite correct of them.

One small exception. Karnataka Milk Federation(KMF) sells buffalo milk are a separate retail product.
When I was in Bellary in 2002, I saw this for the first time (it was brown packet at that time IIRC). The difference is that it has higher fat content.
Later in 2015, Due to huge demand from migrant population from northern part of Karnataka in Bangalore, KMF Bangalore also started to sell that in a few outlets.

https://www.kmfnandini.coop/know-your-milk

[hserus]

So yes buffalo milk is higher fat and higher SNF than any other kind of milk, so the yield of ghee and butter will be much higher as well. And more quantity of milk is available after toning and standardization.

[ashokrajagopal]

Originally Posted by joe1980

For this very purpose, the protests that are currently happening is worth it. What is wrong in promoting desi cows? We have indigenous breed, why not protect it and why not promote it? I do not know the scientific value behind A1 and A2 milk, but coming from a family of farmers, I can confirm that the milk that we got from cows with a hump in the back was less fatty than the ones that we got from non-hump cows!

The farmers brought in the foreign breeds because the desi ones were not commercially viable. So, yes, you can protect and promote desi breeds, but certainly if you are doing it as livelihood, it may not sound like good economics.

Originally Posted by hserus

Doesn't make a difference, people don't absorb the behavioral qualities of cows (gentleness??) or buffaloes (stupidity??) by drinking their milk.

I have run close to nervous breakdown trying to explain to somebody from a farming background that drinking buffalo milk will not make you lazy. His reasoning: Tried honking when a buffalo is blocking your road ? They wont even move, they are lazy.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by ashokrajagopal

I have run close to nervous breakdown trying to explain to somebody from a farming background that drinking buffalo milk will not make you lazy. His reasoning: Tried honking when a buffalo is blocking your road ? They wont even move, they are lazy.

True story from my high school days in the early / mid 90s. We used to live in a very small north Karnataka town at that time (one with a KV so no issues with education thank god). A typical small town that had lots of stray cattle, buffaloes, donkeys etc roaming around the streets.

Being tamilians, we used to play carnatic music a lot, on cassette tape. Normal carnatic music would leave the animals unmoved, but whenever we played a MS Subbulakshmi tape (suprabhatam, bhaja govindam etc), I swear to God, donkeys and buffaloes passing by our house would just stop in their tracks and stand there till the song finished and the tape was shut off.

The only other time I've seen a buffalo stand that still with its eyes closed in enjoyment was when there was a sudden rain shower on a hot afternoon .. it'd just stand there enjoying the cool rain pouring down its back.

So moral of the story - please don't underrate buffaloes. They are intelligent animals, but just don't care about you and your hurry to get somewhere.

[sgiitk]

@hserus; You have taken the Mickey out of the joke of an argument. I am yet to see a Gandhian arguing in favour of Goat's milk here. As far as I am concerned almost all the milk I get (milkman, Amul, whatever) is a mixture of Buffalo and Cow. We consider ourselves lucky if it does no contain urea, etc., esp from the milkman. I think the Nandini milk in Karnataka has a higher Cow content (slightly pale). at one time we used to get butter from Vijaya (undivided Andhra) which claimed to be Cow, but by and large we have given the distinction a go by.

What I do know is that Mozzarella cheese is supposed to pure water buffalo.

[rkg]

Traditionally Indian agriculture was animal power driven. Hence due to the requirements, our fore fathers have bred different cattle for different needs. Thus Indian Cattle breeds can be classified as
1. Milch cattle ( grown only for milk): Sahiwal, Gir, Red Sindhi
2. Draught Purpose ( for work only in agriculture and transportation): Amritmahal, Kangayam, Hallikar, Khillari etc etc
3. Dual Purpose: ( both for milk and draught): Ongloe, Kankrej, Tharparkar, Hariana etc

Kangayam was a work animal.

In general average milk yield of Indian Cattle is less. There was acute shortage of milk in 1960's. So as an urgent measure, crossbreeding with exotic cattle breeds was undertaken to exploit Heterosis and increase milk production.

Another myth: exotic cattle breeds are bred for beef and hence their milk has A1. This is totally wrong. exotic cattle are reared either for Milk ( HF, Jersey, Brown Swiss) or Beef ( Angus, Hereford, shorthorn etc). No dual purpose animals.

A1 and A2 refers to two fractions of milk protein Casein.
Milk do not contain any enzymes to digest milk proteins. It is we, Humans who had these enzymes which digest milk protein/fat/lactose/Pulses/cereals/oils/fruits etc
Basic building blocks of all proteins ( plant/animal) are same 20 amino acids. Once we ingest any protein, it is broken down in to individual amino acids by various proteolytic enzymes in our body.

Thats the reason snake poison in small quantities does not cause serious harm when ingested compared to snake bite, where same quantity is often fatal.

Another example is Pencillin reaction. It happens only when injected but not if it is ingested.

Brazil has imported Ongole cattle and developed their own version of meat animal and called it as Brahman cattle. This is not from Gir.

Regarding Cow milk or buffalo milk. Just check the pack of milk/milk products to see where it is packed. Gujarat os mostly buffalo tract. SO most of Amul milk is Buffalo.
Nandini in bangalore mostly comes from Kolar, which is HF croses belt, hence it is cow milk
Cow milk will be slightly yellowish ( due to precursors of Vitamin A in the form of carotenoids) where as buffalo milk has preformed vitamin A as it is, hence it is whitish.

Buffalo milk also has more calcium compared to cow.

In general Cow milk fat % is around 3-4, where as buffalo it is 6-8.
In India, Buffalo contribute almost 50% of total milk production, crossbreds contribute around 35% and 15% by indigenous cows and Goats

[hserus]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I think the Mandini milk in Karnataka has a higher Cow content (slightly pale). at one time we used to get butter from Vijaya (undivided Andhra) which claimed to be Cow, but by and large we have given the distinction a go by.

What I do know is that Mozzarella cheese is supposed to pure water buffalo.

Ha ha. Most of the nandini milk I get from the local milkmen had a nauseating taste of milk powder being mixed into the milk possibly due to local adulteration.

And yes sir, Mozzarella is made from pure water buffalo milk, as are some turkish / middle eastern cheeses such as Domyati and Feta. Softer white cheeses as compared to cow or sheep milk cheese that is yellow.

Originally Posted by rkg

Traditionally Indian agriculture was animal power driven. Hence due to the requirements, our fore fathers have bred different cattle for different needs. Thus Indian Cattle breeds can be classified as

Thanks for the data. Yes - the breeds are distinct for different purposes. Brahminy bulls - the ones with the hump - have been imported into Brazil for a long long time.

[wrongturn]

Originally Posted by hserus

Seriously, please don't waste your hard earned money on this .. it is about as much hot air as all those fancy additives are for fuel in your petrol tank.

@hserus, on Brazil, please refer to this link,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyr_cattle

If you think there is no difference at all other than one being pasteurized. Then I don't want to discuss this any further with you anymore as it doesn't matter.

Even if you ignore the A1/A2 issue, the sheer amount of adulteration of milk and milk products is enough for me to stay away from them.

To the people who really want to know the actual difference you have to try it to believe it. I know it will be a tremendous task now as getting pure milk is kind of a next to impossible.

People saying drinking milk of other species is unnatural for humans, you must have educated our ancestors thousands of years ago, now it's too late to preach that. We have evolved quite well by the way. Maybe well should stop eating plants as well by your theory as we are different then plants at the cellular level yo begin with. Heard about molecular breakdown anybody? Edible and inedible foods?

Buffalo milk will make you lazy as it has high content of fat compared to cow milk which has high protein content, but that doesn't happen instantly if you took it that way, eventually it will. I don't even want to bring the camel milk into equation as many would not even know that it exists and humans consume it, in many parts of the world.

I have to ask this question, do you actually believe in ayurveda or is that baseless for you too?

I have done my share of research on the topic, and I own a Gyr cow and have seen very good results, I don't need any scientific research to tell me that I am doing it wrong.

I am a Biotechnology graduate, I know what I am doing and saying, maybe you should not dismiss my statement without actually considering or evaluating it thoroughly. This isn't a virtual thing we are talking about, it's as real as it gets. You might have read it some where but I have actually done it and experienced it. Atleast I know what I am talking about.

[hserus]

Great. Do you have any peer reviewed papers available on whether A1 milk is harmful compared to A2? I have done enough of a search and seen a few papers, and most of them have been rebutted quite heavily upon peer review.

I will absolutely agree with you that getting access to pure and unadulterated milk is always a good thing, compared to all the contaminants that can get into milk during the distribution and sale cycle, right from the milkman to the person who delivers milk packets at your home.

[ashokrajagopal]

Originally Posted by wrongturn

@hserus, on Brazil, please refer to this link,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyr_cattle


Even if you ignore the A1/A2 issue, the sheer amount of adulteration of milk and milk products is enough for me to stay away from them.
.
.
.
Buffalo milk will make you lazy as it has high content of fat compared to cow milk which has high protein content, but that doesn't happen instantly if you took it that way, eventually it will. I don't even want to bring the camel milk into equation as many would not even know that it exists and humans consume it, in many parts of the world.

a) Adulteration is not privy to the Milk Marketing cooperative societies. Your local milkman can very easily adulterate. Even the quality of water that he uses can make it more dangerous than any marketed packet milk. For people who cannot actually own a cow(or buffalo) in their backyard, a packet of milk is much better than a local milkman unless you know the guy personally.

b) The least amount of fat I think ( no researcher, just read somewhere) is in donkey's milk. But we do not raise donkeys for milk. ( In many parts of India they drink it too). The kind of milk you drink is completely dependent on the kind of milk that is available. I am questioning your statement completely. Dietary fat does not make you "fat" and "lazy". Dietary fat is required for an active and healthy life. Of course, if you binge on anything, it is toxic. 1 glass of pure buffalo milk gives the same fat as 1.2 or so glass of pure cow milk. There is no laziness correlation. And the protein content of buffalo milk is equal to cow milk.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by hserus

True story from my high school days in the early / mid 90s. We used to live in a very small north Karnataka town at that time (one with a KV so no issues with education thank god). A typical small town that had lots of stray cattle, buffaloes, donkeys etc roaming around the streets.

Being tamilians, we used to play carnatic music a lot, on cassette tape. Normal carnatic music would leave the animals unmoved, but whenever we played a MS Subbulakshmi tape (suprabhatam, bhaja govindam etc), I swear to God, donkeys and buffaloes passing by our house would just stop in their tracks and stand there till the song finished and the tape was shut off.

The only other time I've seen a buffalo stand that still with its eyes closed in enjoyment was when there was a sudden rain shower on a hot afternoon .. it'd just stand there enjoying the cool rain pouring down its back.

So moral of the story - please don't underrate buffaloes. They are intelligent animals, but just don't care about you and your hurry to get somewhere.

Wonderful. I will remember your buffaloes enjoying MSS and enjoying the rain . I wonder if the streets of your childhood small town are still quiet enough for such things to happen!

Thank you, too, for your down-to-earth coverage of this topic. With food science (or should that be food "science"?) things can change by the day. Today's news is that burnt toast can (ok, actually... could, maybe, possibly, no link proved in humans) give us cancer. Tomorrow's may be that we should only drink the milk of black and white cows, not brown. People take fads and embroider them into dogma. Down-to-earth info sorely needed!

[hserus]

Originally Posted by ashokrajagopal

1 glass of pure buffalo milk gives the same fat as 1.2 or so glass of pure cow milk. There is no laziness correlation. And the protein content of buffalo milk is equal to cow milk.

And one glass of toned and pasteurized buffalo milk vs one glass of toned and pasteurized cows milk, with the same SNF etc metrics?

Exact same fat content, exact same nutrition. If you feel lazy after drinking milk, I would suggest adding strong filter coffee decoction to it and it will wake you right up

Originally Posted by ashokrajagopal

The least amount of fat I think ( no researcher, just read somewhere) is in donkey's milk.

Only thing I know about donkey milk is that the legendary beauty Cleopatra allegedly used to bathe in it so there might be a market for this in beauty parlours

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Wonderful. I will remember your buffaloes enjoying MSS and enjoying the rain . I wonder if the streets of your childhood small town are still quiet enough for such things to happen!

Thank you, too, for your down-to-earth coverage of this topic. With food science (or should that be food "science"?) things can change by the day. Today's news is that burnt toast can (ok, actually... could, maybe, possibly, no link proved in humans) give us cancer. Tomorrow's may be that we should only drink the milk of black and white cows, not brown. People take fads and embroider them into dogma. Down-to-earth info sorely needed!

When starches or meat become brown, or coffee is roasted, or burnt after too much browning, that is what is called the Maillard Reaction. That reaction is what you owe the lovely smell of a grilled kebab or a perfectly done toast to - and it is what blackens and chars bread, potatoes or meat when it goes out of control due to too much heat over a prolonged period of time.

At extremely high temperatures - when the meat or starch blackens, a carcinogen called Acrylamide is formed. And that is the origin of the "red meat causes cancer" thing more than anything else. If your red meat is well charred steaks, or your starchy food is roasted potatoes, you do have a cancer risk out there. If you eat it in very large quantities, over years, of course - and well before the cancer risk there's cholesterol and blood pressure to contend with.

That small town (Bidar, Karnataka) hasn't changed as much - it has become as crowded as a chennai suburb of course, but there's still no shortage of cattle and such roaming the alleyways of the city. Much like the Chennai suburbs of course, I can't drive past West Tambaram without watching for stray cattle relaxing with a quick snack of the grass growing on the median.