[qaqa]

I am against hardwood furniture.

Hardwood trees take decades to grow. Every hardwood furniture piece requires that some old growth tree somewhere in the world had to be chopped off for my personal luxury. Very few hardwood trees come from sustainable plantations simply because it's a decades long enterprise for which there is no appetite. Most trees are cut in forests whether legally or otherwise. These are trees which cannot be replaced in our lifetimes. Trees that played an important role in some forest's ecology. Even deadwood has a role in forest ecology.

Softwood on the other hand can and is often grown sustainably on managed plantations. These trees are fast growing and hence financially viable. Most IKEA and similar furniture is made from softwood whether processed or not.

Also i think longevity in furniture is overrated. Styles change, our requirements change etc. We will probably be better served with new furniture which better suits our requirements at reasonable intervals.

I have used plenty of engineered wood and softwood furniture that has lasted decades when cared for, as well as poorly put together plywood and blockboard contraptions which give way at the slightest force. It is not necessary that poor quality is the exclusive domain of softwood furniture.

As regards finishing, no local carpenter can give you the finish which a factory made piece can. Maybe it's just my experience, but most locally made plywood / blockboard pieces have poor fit and finish and end up using much more material with little to show for it.

Don't mistake me, I'm all for supporting the local craftsmen. However if they don't have the skills, equipment or means to match factory finished output I would need to discriminate. It's similar to how most of us will never accept a local repainting job on our cars and demand a factory finish.

Sorry for the long rant.

[AJITHAAA]

Carpentry is a precious trade which is fast vanishing from our country, especially the hardwood carpentry. Now most of the existing carpenters are plywood jockeys and basically go with one skill fits all attitude. The hard wood carpenters are more or less non existent in the cities and we can rarely find a skilled one in traditional green hubs like costal Karnataka, Kerala and interior Tamil Nadu(places I know). Carpentry as a trade is not promoted any more as it is viewed as an inferior trade and those offering the training have not advanced the techniques with time.
Dignity of labor is something we do not value when it comes to traditional trades like carpentry, Iron works, Cobblery, etc. hence newer generations would not like to take up any of these skills.

[Sebring]

Another point I'd like to add is that in Bangalore/Mysuru carpenters sell stuff claiming it (Furniture) is teak wood, but normally it isn't. End consumer wouldn't know what wood is used

Originally Posted by qaqa

I am against hardwood furniture

[Zignor]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

Truth is pretty much everything at Ikea is particle board, MDF. Sawdust, glue, and color paper. Designs from Sweden, built where they can find cheap labor, to last a short while, hoping they return again, soon to replace with another ikea product.

It's not just IKEA, even furniture from PepperFry, HomeStudio and basically any big retailer uses particle board and I absolutely can't stand how structurally weak they are. While I do like the concept of building your own furniture from IKEA, somehow the quality of the wood turns me away. Hardwood is the way to go for me but then again, it can ridiculously expensive and understandably so.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

+1 and +1 again. We need to support the local carpenter, the local kirana shop, the local eatery, the local book shop and such others each of which is being utterly demolished by the likes of Amazon, IKEA, Zomato etc. Mind you the business model of at least Amazon and Zomato/Swiggy like Uber/Ola is painfully exploitative of the small self employed vendor, driver, delivery man.

I resonate with this particular part. Small industries, shops, book stores, etc need to keep going at a profit. Putting them out of business is bad at multiple levels, not to mention online vendors will have complete monopoly over everything. And worse, we lose the chance at human interaction. If the lockdown taught me something, it was that without human interactions, we just exist.

[qaqa]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Another point I'd like to add is that in Bangalore/Mysuru carpenters sell stuff claiming it (Furniture) is teak wood, but normally it isn't. End consumer wouldn't know what wood is used

Well, I don't think the trade is particularly known for honesty, whether in Bangalore-Mysore or anywhere else in the country! I once knew a local furniture dealer who seemed to have every brand of plywood in stock. Turns out, the smart guy was merely affixing the brand name of choice onto unbranded (and possibly untaxed) plywood

In some sense, it is probably good that there are customers who fall for their tricks. If everyone who thought they wanted it actually pushed for genuine teak, I dont think we would have much teak trees left in our forests! I'm happy that low grade wood is passed off as high quality teak thus ensuring that consumer appetites are met while hopefully some old growth trees were preserved.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by qaqa

I am against hardwood furniture.

Right, also factor in the quality of wood, our extreme climates (here in the North it can be Plus 50 and 0 in less than 7 months) and the diminishing quality of carpentry.

In the past, I was a big fan of hard teak wood, going all the way to timber auctions to choose my fav type of CPT (Central Province teak wood) and how I will get the large trees instead of getting cut lengths locally so that the grains are all matched

But now, I don’t even feel like seeing a tree being cut especially the big grown Teak ones.

Ikea does produce some very good and durable furniture, or at least that’s what I have experienced here in Canada. 99% of our furniture is from IKEA and in the past 8-10 Years, I can’t think of a single thing that has broken. Whereas whatever MDF types I have bought locally (china origin-non-Ikea) have lasted only for a few years as they go bad even if no one is touching them.

Regarding local carpenters going off the job, I think it’s wrong. Ikea does source locally, as high as 20% currently and this will surely go up as local sourcing was mandatory for them before they were given the go-ahead to set up single-brand sales outlets.

https://www.ikea.com/in/en/campaigns...ia-pub4647380b

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by coolvenk

What about solid softwood e.g pinewood, which is not particle board?

Sure, solid softwood works great as well. You can sand this wood, refinish with varnish, change the look with a stain, and make it last forever. I am a fan of hardwood, and the character it has. But, I cant afford hardwood all the time. I buy prime pine, imported from New Zealand. They have consistent character, and is pretty solid for all furniture needs.

If one can buy softwood furniture at these retailers within your budget, thats great. I am not a fan of particle board furniture, when you have wear and tear - kids at home. Sure, you end up buying a newer design after few years, but think of the amount of junk you have created. The particle board furniture goes straight to landfill, you cant do much with it. My son broke his bed, while he dived on it to catch a football. He broke his study desk, throwing the same football. Then, I built his bed frame from Douglas fir, (softwood, framing lumber) it stayed solid till he moved out to college. Now, I am going to break his bed down and build an outdoor table for the garden.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Regarding local carpenters going off the job, I think it’s wrong.

What Ikea employs are laborers, they are hardly carpenters. The furniture they sell does not involve carpentry. They are pieces mass manufactured by machines, according to spec. This is the reason they can sell it at these prices, and still make a profit.

Like I said, I used to be a customer of Ikea for a decade. Because it looked great, and was affordable, my entire house (and that of my friends) were all Ikea stuff. In fact, as newly married couple, we used to go to Ikea with other friends and their spouses, and shop our heart's content. So, I totally understand there is a market for this.

My point, is that if you can think longer term, and care about longevity of what you buy, you should consider furniture that is built better. In the US, there are other retailers who sell products that are built better. $150 Ikea bed compared to $3K bed at Ethan Allen. Even then, it is softwood, stained with different colors. I have modified, or fixed Ethan Allen beds for friends, only to see the shoddy quality wood, glued together. Yes, the factory finish is great, for which they are able to demand a premium.

[Guite]

This debate on IKEA vs local carpenters is very interesting. It is a sentiment that resonates with me. I have never bought IKEA yet, primarily because it is not available in my area yet. On the other hand I have engaged a local carpenter for my self designed furnitures. My experience shows that chalta hai attitude is prevalent everywhere. He doesn't care for finish quality, alignment of panels, etc. Maybe I am unlucky in my choice of carpenter. Anyway my experience has not been good, so I am reluctant to go that route again.

[Dry Ice]

Ikea knows their target audience very well. The screenshot below is for a particular product but it holds true for most of their offerings. Not surprising, given their incredible success.

They also offer furniture made of untreated solid wood (pine), which can be modified suitably as per your liking. In car speak, the key is to not pick the base model if you want to use it for a long time. Get yourself at least the mid variant and it will serve you well. Same thing as expressed in this thread (How a more expensive car can work out cheaper (if you hold onto it for longer)).

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

What Ikea employs are laborers, they are hardly carpenters. The furniture they sell does not involve carpentry.

Well, most of the guys who used to specialise are diminishing and not just due to Ikea but because of preference of ready to assemble or otherwise. Like, we have stopped using wooden door & window frames as UPVC (normal or aluminium) works better, is faster to get and saves hassles of dealing with multiple people.

My point, is that if you can think longer term, and care about longevity of what you buy, you should consider furniture that is built better. In the US, there are other retailers who sell products that are built better. $150 Ikea bed compared to $3K bed at Ethan Allen. Even then, it is softwood, stained with different colors. I have modified, or fixed Ethan Allen beds for friends, only to see the shoddy quality wood, glued together.

Exactly, if even after spending 3K one has to go somewhere to fix the bed, why bother at the first place?

And Ikea does sell some good designs, my son got this 4 Years ago and it still looks great

https://www.ikea.com/ca/en/p/bjoerks...oey-s59285973/

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Exactly, if even after spending 3K one has to go somewhere to fix the bed, why bother at the first place?

You read this wrong. I modified an Ethan Allan bed frame that had railings and looked old/dated. It was a 20 year old bed frame. I trimmed the footboard railing, and added a pine board to cover it. Stained and polished it to make it look like a platform bed. It also made it easier to tuck the comforter. All this is possible because its wood.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

You read this wrong.

Maybe I don’t understand when you say this.

I have modified, or fixed Ethan Allen beds for friends, only to see the shoddy quality wood, glued together.

Anyway, let’s come back to the topic. If IKEA furniture helps a lot of people (labourers in your parlance) and also make customers happy, better we discuss about Ikea here

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Anyway, let’s come back to the topic. If IKEA furniture helps a lot of people (labourers in your parlance) and also make customers happy, better we discuss about Ikea here

I am just drawing attention to the different material choices available at Ikea, and further up the chain to places like Ethan Allan, and then stuff made from known wood (complete wooden boards)

1. Particle board/MDF
2. Plywood
3. Edge glued, wood boards
4. Sandwiched soft wooden boards (no joins visible)
5. Complete soft wood boards
6. Hardwood exotic woods

You get 1, 2, and 3 at Ikea. As long as people know what they are buying, all is well.

[akshaysehgal]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Regarding local carpenters going off the job, I think it’s wrong. Ikea does source locally, as high as 20% currently and this will surely go up as local sourcing was mandatory for them before they were given the go-ahead to set up single-brand sales outlets.

https://www.ikea.com/in/en/campaigns...ia-pub4647380b

I can confirm this, weirdly enough. There was a famous furniture/ceramic market called Banjara market in Sector 56 Gurgaon where you can find some amazing stuff for dirt cheap prices.

I stay in Sector 56 so I regularly used to visit the market and one fine day I randomly came across some beautiful wooden cutting boards for the kitchen. More interestingly they had a very original-looking Ikea tag on them! I used a barcode scanner to check and found they were actually authentic! Even found the same item being sold for 4 times the price at Ikea. Immediately pick up a couple, both seemed to have small marks on the wood (defects?).

This along with a lot of other wooden stuff for brands like Ikea apparently comes from furniture "factories" in some towns in UP.

Oh, and on another trip to the market I actually also found some ceramic microwave-safe bowls for 40 bucks each, which were sold with a plastic sticker on the bottom (and literally no other difference) for 250 bucks a piece in Home Center. Talk about margins!

(RIP Banjara, May 2022 due to government ruling. 100s of workers and sellers were forced to leave and all of their handicrafts, ceramics, and wooden artifacts were smashed to bits all over the land)

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by am1m

I get the appeal of creating/getting something beautiful created, but spending weeks getting it done with a carpenter is just not my idea of fun.

Actually, it took us several months. We were prepared. The things with this is, you do it once and forget about it. I wouldn't necessarily say it was a fun project. We had language barrier too. However; in the end, we were so pleased with what we got that all the trials and tribulations were forgotten. We ended up paying peanuts considering the wood that was used.

With an IKEA or any of the other particle boards products is that it takes only a few assembly, disassembly attempts and you've weakened the structure. It is no longer as solid as it used to be. There will be play in the joints. Bed frames maybe a little better built to withstand disassembly. Shelves are a different story. All of this is less of an issue if you are setting up your own home and are unlikely to move anything around.