[carboy]

Originally Posted by skdking

In our impatience we must think of the have nots. A few weeks of self done maid work will keep both us and maid safe. Let us avoid being selfish.

The havenots are the ones who will be screwed most by the extended lockdowns. We elites have enough money to stay at home for extended time periods and avoid getting infected. The lockdowns are the best way for us to avoid getting infected. The havenots don't have money to buy food if they don't work. So they will either starve or they will gather in mass food charity events. Most of India are have nots.

[CarJunki]

Originally Posted by vivek95

Being a Doctor myself ( I am still a junior doctor by the way ) I am totally confused with these rising instances of private hospitals being forced to shut down across the metros in our country, especially Mumbai.

Before i start, I hugely respect medical professional. They are the front line of nation as of now.

This seems to have happened in Mumbai (i think 1 hospital) and Delhi (Agrasen hospital which is a super specialty hospital for infants) had to be quarantined.
Both these places seems to have resulted in spread to medical staff.

I am not sure how public will react if their new born gets infected due to lack of contamination preventive practices. Believe me if one or 2 infants lose life due to spread from hospitals, doctors will be the first to sit on strike.

A few medical staff of Sir Ganga Ram hospital in Delhi (i think oncology department) also were detected as positive but i think they are still to quarantine the hospital and declare as containment zone.

With medical staff getting infected, the chances of spread is quite high given the number of patients (of all age) who come in contact with doctors or nurses.

Its a simple assessment of blast radius. A health care professional currently has highest blast radius. No other professional is coming in contact with similar number of people.

I do not know if assessment of blast radius is part of professional medical training, if not currently then it should. This is a very important part of security certification for IT industry. One that underlines almost all parts of service continuity.

[CarJunki]

Originally Posted by carboy

The havenots are the ones who will be screwed most by the extended lockdowns.

Governments will deliver sustenance to the havenots. The ones who currently are classified as haves, will soon become havenots but will not recognized by system as one.

For example: A person who currently earns say 12L a year, does not get any subsidy nor any support from government. If this person loses job/earning their kids fee will not come down as they are still not eligible for RTE. Nor will they get free groceries or any other assistance from government. Hell they will not be covered by AYUSHMAN bharat scheme for medical treatment.

The difference between a have and a havenot is just few weeks, and this is true across the world.

[motorworks]

Although we have been bombarded with so much of COVID related statistics, im just curious to understand how and why certain European countries like Germany, Switzerland and Portugal have far lower mortality rates compared to their neighbors like France, Spain and Italy. In Germany, the recovery rate seems to be the highest in Europe, and although the total cases of Germany is almost the same as France, the death rates are very low.
While I read an article that Germany moved fast to isolate older people, I dont that may be the only factor. Also read somewhere that Portugal, like India, has a BCG vaccination program, which supposedly is not a practice in France and Spain. And this BCG vaccination as per reports, enables better immunity.

[civic-sense]

The poor guys works for putting food on the table and little else, so if the PDS system takes care of the basic food needs, they are covered.

On the contrary who despises the lockdown are people like us who are missing the gardeners and maids, who are missing the booming stock markets, whose businesses are down since the workers are stuck at home etc.

So we shed crocodile tears for the poor hapeless have-nots.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

The poor guys works for putting food on the table and little else, so if the PDS system takes care of the basic food needs, they are covered.

On the contrary who despises the lockdown are people like us who are missing the gardeners and maids, who are missing the booming stock markets, whose businesses are down since the workers are stuck at home etc.

So we shed crocodile tears for the poor hapeless have-nots.

It's not as binary as you are making it out to be. There aren't just absolutely poor and very rich in this country.

A large number of people are what can be called middle class that has all the shades from poor middle class to lower middle to all the way to higher middle class which could include most of us in this forum. Of this not all can really survive a long shutdown, many of this middle class is in acute danger of reverting to poor which would be big tragedy in itself.

[vsrivatsa]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this question but here goes. While the initial talk was of sparing the Masks for the Healthcare people, now the police are mandating Masks for everyone who steps out.

I was looking at which mask to buy and saw that Wildcraft has introduced some masks here : URL and they call it the W95 Mask and not an N95 Mask.

Is this good to buy for the current Corona situation?

[born_free]

Originally Posted by CarJunki

For example: A person who currently earns say 12L a year, does not get any subsidy nor any support from government. If this person loses job/earning their kids fee will not come down as they are still not eligible for RTE. Nor will they get free groceries or any other assistance from government. Hell they will not be covered by AYUSHMAN bharat scheme for medical treatment.

I would expect someone earning that much would have saved amount at least equal to one year of expenses in some liquid instruments like FD or Debt Funds . This is the very core of basic Financial Planning which many of us miss.

Personally I could sustain myself couple of years If my income stopped today as I had been consiously trying to achieve financial freedom by lowering my expenses and not upgrading my current lifestyle.

I am more worried about those who work in unorganised sectors and live paycheck to paycheck. These people definitely need government support.

[The Rationalist]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

Is this good to buy for the current Corona situation?

Any mask is good, the problem with all mask is that, you should not touch the outer surface while removing, have to remove it by the straps. Besides N95 or any other mask is single use. So not economically viable for most to use N95. You can make cloth masks if you have a sewing machine.

The real risk will be people who wear mask and inadvertently touch the face and mask in between. That is going to transfer the infected particles too close to your nose and mouth. One have to be extremely cautious about that.

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

Any mask is good

On the matter of masks, I had purchased a few surgical ones online. But once I understood that they are useful more for the frontline medical workers than a layman like me, I decided to hand them over to them.

Yesterday, sat with the better half and stitched some triple layer cotton masks for our use. We copied the design from DIY videos, cut the cloth in duplicate and inserted a canvas piece in the middle. They aren't going to make it to the cover page of any fashion magazine, but would hopefully be enough to keep us safe.

It won't be long before colourful and fashionable masks invade the market; and rightly so. My feeling is that we are looking at a minimum of three months of masked existence once the lockdown is removed.

[Traveler]

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa

Not sure if this is the right thread for this question but here goes. While the initial talk was of sparing the Masks for the Healthcare people, now the police are mandating Masks for everyone who steps out.

I was looking at which mask to buy and saw that Wildcraft has introduced some masks here : URL and they call it the W95 Mask and not an N95 Mask.

Is this good to buy for the current Corona situation?

We bought a pack of these masks recently. Myntra is delivering these as they come under essential goods. I like them. They are well built and cover the whole nose and mouth and seem to quite well layered. They will filter out droplets for sure. There is a thin plastic strip that runs along the top edge, this can be pinched around the nose and then they become quite well fitting.

[CarJunki]

Originally Posted by born_free

I would expect someone earning that much would have saved amount at least equal to one year of expenses in some liquid instruments like FD or Debt Funds .

I am more worried about those who work in unorganized sectors and live paycheck to paycheck. These people definitely need government support.

Savings and liquidity for 1 year expense is good and every one who has income (any income at all) should practice this or try to get there.

For simple discussion lets say a person with 12L or so yearly income has 2 school going kids, the school fee itself will be so high that it will threaten to eat major portion of savings in 2-3 years time.
Not sure what your personal position with regards to kids in school, so please do not take this as targeted to individual.

Another fact: If someone with significant professional experience today lost his/her job, pretty sure they will not find another in quick time. It may take few years in many cases.

Now my point is not to undermine or understate by any means the suffering of people working in unorganized sectors.
My point is people who feel comfortable or see some sections as immune to economic impacts are taking a slightly unrealistic (or limited) view. This is why I say someone with comfortable level of income today may not remain same and for those people system does not come to help.

[whitewing]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

The poor guys works for putting food on the table and little else, so if the PDS system takes care of the basic food needs, they are covered.

I disagree that this is entirely true, especially, in an urban setting.
This is not a rant against the PDS system, but a reality check against the assumption that people on the borderline poverty are bothered only about 2 square meals a day.

I know that our maids take PDS rice and sell it off to some trader, and in return buy better quality rice. I've heard them say that the rice in PDS is of poor quality and smells.
Also, does the PDS cover the nutritional needs? Vegetables etc? Milk? I guess there is a reason why we are a country with surplus cereals but still have a large portion of children malnourished.

Likewise, for them to be in touch with the people in their native places, they need money for the mobile currency.

Originally Posted by joslicx

It's not as binary as you are making it out to be. There aren't just absolutely poor and very rich in this country.

Absolutely, one of our household help of ours, who stopped working after their kid got a white collar job in a private firm. If that kid loses his job or has to take a significant job cut, the family will slip a few notches in economic well being, simply because, they would not have managed to have an nest egg cushy enough to last a few months.

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

^^^ There’s always a collateral damage in such scenarios. Most hospitals are already running with the bare minimum staff, and now Corona has caused havoc. You can’t churn doctors out like machines in crisis situations. You would need to decide who gets the treatment. You may have to choose between a below 60 year old Corona patient and above 70 year old patient with Myocardial infarction or stroke, or when faced with two corona patients needing Ventilator support, one tend to offer that to the younger patient.

What if the 60/70 year old stroke patient is a millionaire running businesses which feed thousands and the young covid patient is a mere employee who feeds himself? Or he is an uneducated laborer? Who will you save now?
If we continue in a cold and clinical fashion then the person to be saved is one who gives more to the society. However; will you say collateral damage if the 70 year old is your father? It's easy to talk when it doesn't affect you directly.

On a separate note: everyone here self introspect. How many months/years can I survive with zero income and the same expenses and standard of living. If you answer less than 2 years and you are in any mid/senior level roles, take a long hard look at your finances, you may be in for a world of pain.

[ramzsys]

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

will you say collateral damage if the 70 year old is your father? It's easy to talk when it doesn't affect you directly.

the whole point of not making it personal through 'cold and clinical' fashion is to keep emotions at bay, especially those who are making decisions about who gets the ventilator.

Let's keep it simple by leaving it to them medics since they are the ones qualified to judge who has more chance of survival.