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View Poll Results: Do you support the lockdown extension?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 08:17   #2131
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABHI_1512 View Post
The lockdown has now been extended with some relaxations which seems more like a design to thwart criticism than to actually have a vision going forward. The picture of Ramkumar Pandit along with another video of a family cycling from Punjab with two children on a cycle and one infant in the mother’s lap that I saw on BBC Hindi made me cry few days back. The family was talking to the reporter and crying that he has no where to go and the police is not letting him cycle towards his home place but instead beating him. As he cried, I cried too. Sorry for being little melodramatic here but what has happened to the migrant workers because of the lockdown is inhuman and dastardly. We may build as many satellites and highways and latest guns and what not in the future but we will never be absolved of these cruel atrocities on our own countrymen !!
The problem is, very many people (including a panel of AIIMS and ICMR doctors) wanted the lockdown. Even today I see very many residents in my apt complex being paranoid about what to allow.

I think the below article nails it well:

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/coro...better-2233658

As Amitabh Kant says, the lockdown having happened, the subsequent migrant problem is primarily a failure of the state and district govts (regardless of political party). Local police staff (which falls under state govt), who were supposed to have first hand knowledge of what's happening on the ground (of scores of migrants walking on the roads), ought to have relayed and escalated the issue up their mgmt chain all the way to the CM level *within a day* of having noticed this.

Then something timely could perhaps have been done in it's immediate aftermath (such as arranging buses), rather than it catching attention of the nation weeks after it started.

Instead, our police force is as usual incompetent, ill-trained, sadistic and full of apathy.

It's too much to expect our kind of govts (whether central or state) to have *foresight* before the migrant kind incident happens. If we had had govts as sensitive as that, we'd have been a better-off nation by now.

So the next best thing is, as soon as it happened, it ought to have been noticed and something done about it. Which clearly didn't happen! And that's a fair and square *failure of state and local govts*.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 10:14   #2132
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

From my cousin's place in electronic city, phase 2: Subsequent to that Covid-19 +ve patient, they have sealed off the area for 28-days -

Quote:
*Covid-19* meeting related to the latest incident took place in our area. Meeting was chaired by *incident commander* Tahsildar, Municipal Commissioner, Local Counsellor and Hebbagodi Inspector and taluk medical team.

Here is the brief summary.

Our area is divided into 2 zones

*Containment Zone:* 100mts radius from the incident place. This whole area is sealed down today by 7pm till next 28 days.

-No one should enter or exit from this zone, no shops will be opened. Only govt will provide daily needs like water, vegetables, all basic essentials. Residents must call helpline number for everything.

-Residents should pay for groceries and food.

-Emergency health issues will addressed by the government medical team.

-Travel from this place is restricted.

-Daily announcements will be made.

*Buffer Zone:* 1KM radius from the incident place.

-Shops will be opened but they instructed us to come out only if required.

-can go to workplace with proper precautions.

-Society must monitor the movements of the residents and help administration for contact tracing later.

-Quarantine is compulsory by either government or paid basis for interstate travels

-Travel history with Tamilnadu and Maharastra should be monitored closely.

-Government ASHA workers will be visiting the apartment to collect the health and travel history details. Please cooperate with them.

-Avoid guests, housemaids to apartment.

-Cancel/avoid all party, functions

-Take care of kids and elders.
- wearing mask is compulsory, even within apartment.

*Good news: 5 Primary contacts has been negative, waiting for second test*

Administration is looking for volunteers for communication between government and residents.

We are safe now and really looking for your support to continue the same. Please cooperate.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
What suspicion? For ages, people have ventured out of their villages & nothing happened. Which historical texts mention these?
Closest example home that's still been living that out are the Sentinelese at the Andamans. For a variety of reasons they are hostile towards outsiders and venturing out themselves.

Will add in references from my readings...
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Old 23rd May 2020, 10:36   #2133
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by wheelguy View Post
Few stats talking/saying about the effectiveness of lockdown:
So far lockdown ensured cases are low & death count is less. Now that lockdown is relaxed and everything is getting back to normal, won't the cases go up? Did the lockdown just delay the epidemic spread by 2 months?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vharihar View Post
As Amitabh Kant says, the lockdown having happened, the subsequent migrant problem is primarily a failure of the state and district govts (regardless of political party).
Wow, it looks like the scapegoat is found in state govts ! Central Govt does the economic survey every year (http://mofapp.nic.in:8080/economicsurvey/) and they were aware of the migrants number in different states. It is just that it fell into their blind spot and the pity is even after finding out the issue, no action is being taken, even now. State govts can't run trains, buses without co-ordination with central govt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vharihar View Post
It's too much to expect our kind of govts (whether central or state) to have *foresight* before the migrant kind incident happens.
Our country has disaster management team, who are paid to think about such situation and act.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContessMan View Post
But since the route is through multiple states, it's highly confusing as to the process of applying for e-pass.
It was announced flight passengers are exempt from quarantine if they are the way to catch flight from a different state. But that is from May 25th. The same rule might apply for Trains and they are from June 1st (btw, railways had canceled all trains reservation till June 30th and now they are planning to start service from June 1st ). No idea about road travel stopovers. They might be few hotels open for essential service personnel & police might help with this.

We are in this situation since the central govt gives the direction and it is left to state govts to figure out the implementation. Instead, if central govt explains the rationale of their direction and gives guidelines on inter-state co-ordination, these issues can be solved and state govts can focus on their subjects.
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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Now the apology from Niti Aayog on the graph they drew and advised the nation - ‘Sorry for misconception, but never made zero case claim’
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Old 23rd May 2020, 10:43   #2134
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Will we see a lockdown 5.0?
Or is now a good time to finally start ironing my formals?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:05   #2135
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Our country has disaster management team, who are paid to think about such situation and act.
True. You can charge central govt as to why they didn't foresee and prod the state govts about the migrants issue, and/or why they didn't give a 3 day notice period as opposed to a 4 hr notice period.

But you remember the paranoia floating around that time, esp from the medical fraternity, about flattening the curve, etc? The central govt largely acted on advice from the AIIMS/ICMR doctors panel. The mistake they made was they ought to have had economists too on that panel, sitting across on the same table as the doctors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
State govts can't run trains, buses without co-ordination with central govt.
The ultimate power to run buses falls under state and local govts. Center doesn't manage any bussing systems, those are state run (eg. MSRTC, KSRTC, etc)

My point is, you can't let the state govts go devoid of blame. Equal or more blame needs to fall on then too. Regardless of political party.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 16:43   #2136
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by vharihar View Post
But you remember the paranoia floating around that time, esp from the medical fraternity, about flattening the curve, etc? The central govt largely acted on advice from the AIIMS/ICMR doctors panel. The mistake they made was they ought to have had economists too on that panel, sitting across on the same table as the doctors.

The ultimate power to run buses falls under state and local govts. Center doesn't manage any bussing systems, those are state run (eg. MSRTC, KSRTC, etc)

My point is, you can't let the state govts go devoid of blame. Equal or more blame needs to fall on then too. Regardless of political party.
I would go out and say almost all the blame goes to central govt for this mess. If they can force a nationwide lockdown without consulting the states, they have to take all responsibilities for the outcome.

For long when ever a bandh call is given in any part of the country, the opposition parties (those opposing the bandh at that time) always pointed out it was the daily wage earner who will be hardest hit.

Now we have this 21 day lockdown announced and nobody at the govt/administration/party level had the foresight to see if the daily wage earner will be affected. This is nothing but utter carelessness.

If the Govt snatches away your livelihood and didn't expect anything to happen to you, they are living in their ivory towers, as is being rightly blamed.
If the Govt also falls for paranoia then they should be doing comedy serials in TV.

It seems everyone else can be blamed for the mess including the migrants themselves for being poor rather than the one who did the mistake.

Last edited by fordday : 23rd May 2020 at 16:46.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 16:47   #2137
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Though I am a Doctor, I am ignorant to this fact, so I am wondering whether any mathematical models worked out for any previous pandemics had even come close to their estimated figures and deaths ?? Or did the viruses diminish in number mysteriously, because you see , that's what is talked about SARS in 2003. Kindly direct me to appropriate links, thanks.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 16:57   #2138
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

Quote:
Originally Posted by vharihar View Post
My point is, you can't let the state govts go devoid of blame. Equal or more blame needs to fall on then too. Regardless of political party.
The moment the lockdown was announced, it was covered under the Disaster Management Act and NDMA was in force throughout the country. The central government ran the whole show with the PM being the Chairperson. Even if I had to blame the state governments, the foresight should have been from the PMO and no where else. The directions should have come from the top and the states would have been compelled to comply irrespective of the political party. Truth is, the migrant workers were hang out to dry when they needed help. No amount of talk is going to change what they went through !!
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Old 23rd May 2020, 17:08   #2139
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by fordday View Post
I would go out and say almost all the blame goes to central govt for this mess. If they can force a nationwide lockdown without consulting the states, they have to take all responsibilities for the outcome.
Sorry, this is factually wrong. Many state governments had announced state-wide curfews even before the nation-wide lockdown announced on March 24th (effective from March 25th.)

So much has happened since March, that it is perfectly understandable we have forgotten the panic which was happening everywhere; Each state government was giving its own lockdown guidelines.

All the below examples are announcements before the national lockdown announcement on March 24th.

Just google "<your state> lockdown March 2020" to get to such news.

Maharashtra

Assorted

Telengana

Tamil Nadu
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Old 23rd May 2020, 19:01   #2140
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by Miyata View Post
From my cousin's place in electronic city, phase 2: Subsequent to that Covid-19 +ve patient, they have sealed off the area for 28-days -
Could you let me know from where I can get the containment zone and buffer zone maps for ECT Phase 2.

I do follow BBMP on twitter but since they don't technically manage Electronic City phase 2 ( I think) I am not sure where to get this information from.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 23:33   #2141
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by vharihar View Post
The central govt largely acted on advice from the AIIMS/ICMR doctors panel. The mistake they made was they ought to have had economists too on that panel, sitting across on the same table as the doctors.
Doctors and other health care workers are the ones who will die first had the govt not initiated lockdown. There was acute shortage of masks and infact no PPE kits available in March. One surgical mask was meant for a week. Sanitizers weren't even available. Soap? There's no running tap water in many govt hospitals. Hundreds of staff got infected. Besides, India just had one testing facility, at NIV Pune. This was why the govt listened to the doctors.

Had there been economists sitting there, who would have forced the govt not to lock down the country, then hundreds and thousands of doctors, nurses, ambulance drivers, ward boys and many others working in hospitals would have died. The absence of economists there saved the lives of thousands of frontline Covid Warriors.

Thr economists should have adviced the govt to start production of PPE Kits and RTPCR kits in January itself, as it was a great business opportunity due to global shortage. India could have exported PPEs and testing kits and gained some foreign exchange and also this would have allowed companies to scale up the production by March-April and meet the domestic demand also, instead of India importing substandard kits from China.
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Old 24th May 2020, 11:20   #2142
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

There is still a lot to explore about COVID-19 deaths. Some or most of them could be related deaths, as in presence of SARS-Cov2 being an additional finding. For an instance, 32 year covid-19 positive female died at a certain hospital in Mumbai. Had created quite a panic in the circle but I was more keen to understand the background and turns out she had a known autoimmune disorder /SLE since long with repeated hospitalisations in life for flare ups. She died all the more due to catastrophic APLA syndrome/ extensive thrombosis in the body. SARS--Cov2 was not responsible here.

My point here is that, we still don't know how many deaths are directly caused by SARS--Cov2. A person with Chronic Kidney disease who is on regular dialysis might have missed two or three slots due to covid scare and ends up in acute renal failure and major electrolyte disturbances. Such a person might contract the virus given its wide spread but the cause of death would more likely be due to Renal shutdown than the virus itself. I have actually withessed this.

Taking every statistics at face value can be misleading.

Last edited by vivek95 : 24th May 2020 at 11:23. Reason: Spell check
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Old 24th May 2020, 11:55   #2143
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Default India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till May 31, 2020

Im not sure what the Karnataka Govt is achieving with a Lock down on Sundays. I mean, you have opened up everything on weekdays and saying that Sunday should be treated like a Lock down day doesnt make sense. Ideal way would be to open up things in a phased manner and then be consistent with it until there are instances that lead to a containment or a further easing of restrictions.
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:03   #2144
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Im not sure what the Karnataka Govt is achieving with a Lock down on Sundays. I mean, you have opened up everything on weekdays and saying that Sunday should be treated like a Lock down day doesnt make sense. Ideal way would be to open up things in a phased manner and then be consistent with it until there are instances that lead to a containment or a further easing of restrictions.
Didn't the Bengaluru Police Commisioner then come out and say that the 'Janata Curfew' (not sure if he branded it like that or the online news portals did it for him) will be in effect from Saturday night itself.

At first I thought it was to ensure that people stay in on Sundays (when most people usually come out) which would help reduce the burden on overworked police force. But now, I am not so sure.
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:07   #2145
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Default re: India on full lockdown. Edit: Now extended with relaxations till June 30, 2020

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Originally Posted by motorworks View Post
Im not sure what the Karnataka Govt is achieving with a Lock down on Sundays. I mean, you have opened up everything on weekdays and saying that Sunday should be treated like a Lock down day doesnt make sense. Ideal way would be to open up things in a phased manner and then be consistent with it until there are instances that lead to a containment or a further easing of restrictions.

Every instance of minimizing people interacting with each other goes a long way in lowering the rate of spread. The PSU my sister works for now mandates their employees to come on every alternate day. Even that helps and is a lot better than every one traveling every day and being exposed. Every closed day minimizes the interactions and helps in containing the spread.
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