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Old 20th April 2021, 09:20   #31
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Re: Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures

One of my commercial lessees was an ambitious entrepreneur running computer / IT training classes. He used to teach coding, security, server management etc. Was with us since 15 years and had bought a Mobilio in its final production year. Fellow emptied my premises last year because students simply weren't willing to come back to a physical class and all the action had moved to online training. The trouble for him was, at our place, he had a fantastic location. That was a USP. Online, the competition is way too much for a newbie to stand out.

He was someone who had worked his way to the middle-class (or upper middle-class). Feel very sad not just at him losing his business, but also that our 15-year relationship had to end like this.

One year down, that property is still empty. Still haven't found a good + reliable person I'd want to rent it to. Am mentally prepared that it's going to remain empty for another year or two. Better this way than giving it to someone who cannot pay me my rent, and doesn't empty it either. Courts are running massive backlogs, so legal action will be frustratingly delayed.
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Old 20th April 2021, 09:50   #32
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Re: Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures

Isn't it a bit odd ?.

IMF PREDICTS A 12.5% GROWTH FOR INDIA
https://www.imf.org/en/Countries/IND

Logically it means pent up demand getting fulfilled in 2021 but I must confess that i have stopped trying to make sense of the stock markets and also the IMF jargon specialists statements. My only concern is how much money i have in my pockets and how long can I save it.
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Old 20th April 2021, 10:26   #33
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Re: Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Prepare for one, starting in May.
So Delhi has already launched a massive lockdown. And guess what, the images of migrants moving is an exact image of what happened this time last year. Without a date in the photograph, one cannot guess if its Apr 2020 or Apr 2021. All that it made sure was that people who otherwise wouldnt have crowded are now forced to do so.

Now waiting for comments and justification from people how the last year national lockdown was a masterstroke and this probably is a bad move.
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Old 20th April 2021, 10:37   #34
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Re: Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures

Industries that run on migrant labourers are now employing locals with additional pay. Even farm laborers are now shifting to industry and this is stressing the agri sector. Immediately after the news of second wave, merchants sought a 15% cut in procurement price of vegetables.

Au contraire, a quiet town like mine is now buzzing with activity and traffic due to influx of IT folks. Those who don't get internet in their villages are renting houses in the town. Newer bikes on road, buses running empty. Construction works seems undisturbed.
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Old 20th April 2021, 12:24   #35
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Re: Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures

During the GFC, the world markets hit the bottom one year after the event. There is an uncanny similarity in the way things are shaping up.

I read somewhere that worldwide 125 million people, who somehow managed to work their way into middle class have been pushed back into pverty.
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Old 20th April 2021, 12:37   #36
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Re: Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures

A very important topic. Here is the problem. This plight of the middle class should have been highlighted by Indian Media! They are however, busy doing debates on worthless topics. In the olden days we used to listen to the BBC to get news about India. Still we have to turn to foreign media for real news about India even in 21st century.

So is the apathy of the well known economists, intellectuals, to this topic. Less said the better about politicians both from the ruling and in the opposition.

This is the problem. Not enough focus on what really matters.

Regards,
lsjey
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Old 20th April 2021, 13:28   #37
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Re: Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures

I've a relatively shorter experience when it comes to earning, but here are some nuggets of wisdom for most people out there, specially in today's context :

1) The monetary system can only thrive when there are a few people who have too much, majority who have too less and then a few who have just enough, pick where you want to be at and lead a life accordingly.

2) Entrepreneurship or proprietorship is overrated (I am one), thousands aspire to be one, yet have no idea how to go about it. They don't even know the silent oath one takes before taking the leap - I shall gratefully receive all rewards and I shall humbly accept all punishments.

3) Marketing is like a mistress, it will draw you in, tempt you to buy things above and beyond your reach and put you in trouble when you least expect it. Always buy way below your capacity.

4) Saving is earning - having been in a position of contrasting socio-economic statuses, I can vouch for this. It takes years to reach a position of comfort, and if you're not careful enough, seconds to reach the road. Save, save and save.

5) Don't listen to your heart - that yogurt shop, bakery, car detailing center or tech startup might pull at your heart-strings but if it doesn't make financial sense in terms of capital expenses and break-even period, do not take the jump, one bad economic aberration and you will have to hang from the ceiling fan (this is the truth, as harsh as it may sound). Make a highly calculated leap.

6) When all goes wrong, and it will, keep a back-up plan, always have a bare-minimum 7 figure savings to fall back on, that may be your last ticket out of a slump at times.

7) Accept that the business economy is a beast that we don't understand.. irrespective of your financial standing, rolodex or product/service.

8) Equanimity is the key when all fails, accept your failure and bear the consequences of it, the monetary system was NEVER meant to be a fair and equal ground, either you climb over people or the people will climb over you. Know that the cycle will restart soon and you have to find a new place in it.

Last edited by dark.knight : 20th April 2021 at 13:29.
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Old 20th April 2021, 13:44   #38
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Re: Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures

Corona is not a number anymore - a best friend's family is positive. That I am sad and worried would be an understatement. I am incredibly frustrated and angry and aghast at the same time with the state of affairs in the country. How could we get it all this wrong? How do we let our government out so easily without responsibility? Please please please guys, take care and be extra careful.
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Old 20th April 2021, 13:53   #39
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Re: Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures

Quote:
Originally Posted by download2live View Post
I read somewhere that worldwide 125 million people, who somehow managed to work their way into middle class have been pushed back into pverty.
This is the Bloomberg article:
Quote:
For the first time since the 1990s, the global middle class shrank last year, according to a recent Pew Research Center estimate. About 150 million people—a number equal to the populations of the U.K. and Germany combined—tumbled down the socioeconomic ladder in 2020, with South Asia and sub-Saharan Africa seeing the biggest declines.

The divergences are stark. India will end 2021 with a gross domestic product that’s 5.2% smaller than it would have been otherwise, according to forecasts by Bloomberg Economics. Indonesia’s output will be 9.2% smaller than its pre-crisis trend foretold. The U.S.? Just 1.6% smaller.
As in other countries, India’s poorest have borne the largest share of the economic pain from the coronavirus crisis, Fernandes says. But the downturn has also wiped out scores of white-collar jobs such as engineers and teachers. About 21 million salaried workers lost their jobs between April and August of last year, according to the report.

The upshot is that India’s middle class shrank by 32 million people in 2020, accounting for 60% of the worldwide drop in the number of people earning $10-$20 a day, according to Pew Research Center estimates. The reversal looks like the largest India has seen since it began liberalizing its economy in 1991.
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2...&sref=Fbhig0fX
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Old 20th April 2021, 14:16   #40
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Re: Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures

As much as it pains me to say this, the harsh words must be said.

The only people responsible for this fiasco are we the people.

We know governments and bureaucrats in India are lazy!
We know politicians are opportunists!
We know our health care systems is in a mess!

Yet people in 99.99% cases followed zero precautions!
Mask manners are completely absent.
Yesterday only my wife had a fight with woman in market who was without a mask. This is in Delhi which has crazy rise in cases.

We have a house in Haridwar built in industrial colony for Hindustan Unilever employees. Most of the colony got hit in around June - July last year. Many homes were infected, Some died as well!

Yet mask wearing is zero there. When we went to the place after Diwali, I did not even see 1 single person wearing mask. I go there monthly and even went this month on 4 and absolutely no one was wearing mask.

It is easy to blame politicians but fact of life is we are the fools here and we are well deservedly suffering here.

Last edited by Aditya : 20th April 2021 at 20:01. Reason: Please avoid use of profanity in your posts
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Old 20th April 2021, 15:11   #41
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Re: Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures

I feel the worst hit will come now. Other countries have definitely managed this situation better and are well on the road to recovery. While we are going to face the brunt of it now as the new ground zero.

Our country on the one hand is plagued with completely incompetent governance with their priorities collectively in the wrong place (think cricket matches with attendees, political rallies, religious gatherings on the one hand and complete business shut down on the other). I am not pointing to a particular party, this cuts across centre and states and across party lines.

The above is combined with an Indian citizens who fundamentally have low levels of public hygiene (the curse of spitting all over) and generally low regard for complying with any rules (I think masks have protected more chins in this country than mouths and noses).

This 2021 lockdown is going to hurt unlike any comparison to last year. There seem no more loan moratoriums on the table, no meaningful regulatory measures in sight, and when already wounded businesses are hit for the second time around, the blow is much more likely to be fatal.

I also echo the sentiments some have mentioned about the great Indian middle class’ stretched aspirations. We have aped the west and consumed debt like the only trajectory is up. The endless spending cycles that have been woven into our psyches with clever marketing are like a drug that must be avoided. The need to constantly have more material things at the expense of our peace of mind is another curse. I read somewhere that the best wealth we can have at our disposal is the freedom to do what we want with our time. With that in mind, one might want to think the next time around when they have disposable cash - do they want to invest it in their kitty as a path to personal freedom or buy something against leverage which binds them to their employer masters for another xyz years.

Mid life reskilling is another aspect that people should embrace. You never know when a new skill may either open up new vistas and opportunities for you or alternately be that insurance policy for a rainy day when you may need to explore other means of generating income.

I dearly hope people can get back on their feet soon, somehow or the other and that the lessons they take away from this pandemic stay for a long time to come.

Sorry for the long rant like post but there are just so many different facets to this situation that touch thoughts that are close to my heart.
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Old 20th April 2021, 15:24   #42
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Re: Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures

I have few friends who are in bad state since March 2020.
A wedding photographer, a friend who runs a stationery shop that supply notebooks to various local schools, a private school PET teacher who pursued his running passion leaving behind IT job.
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Old 20th April 2021, 15:35   #43
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Re: Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures

Delhi is in lockdown, not Gurgaon, but everything here appears to have come to a standstill. Malls and shops are open, but no customers. Unlike last Year, you speak to anybody and he/ she will have a known who is suffering. Many have simply isolated, tests are difficult and reports are taking even longer. I am pretty sure the total number of infections is a good multiple of the official figure. Same for the deaths.

Stay home and stay safe will be the mantra for the next few weeks at least.

This is a good article.

https://www.ndtv.com/opinion/indias-...s-year-2417576
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Old 20th April 2021, 18:48   #44
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Re: Covid-19 pushes India’s Middle Class toward poverty | Job losses & business closures

Hindsight is a great thing. You can always talk like.. it would have been this way that way etc...

Seeing comments here like.

Quote:
Now waiting for comments and justification from people how the last year national lockdown was a masterstroke and this probably is a bad move.
How about other way? Are people who criticized the national lockdown, doing the same when states have started doing it. I have only one stand. Life is always greater than livelihood. Which ever Govt does it for saving life. I support the same.

What is the difference between corona phase 1 and phase 2.
In Phase 1 it was more prevalent among working class, who were forced out of lockdown for sake of their economic survival.

In phase 2 most affected are the middle class, which went unscathed in phase 1 due to the national lockdown and were mostly indoors with limited social interaction.
During Jan-Mar most of these sections let their guard down and returned to their normal life. But the virus was unforgiving and waiting to pounce upon this class. We can blame govt, we can blame people, we can blame gods, what not. That can help vent some frustration. What ever we do the pandemic will run its course.

Last edited by poloman : 20th April 2021 at 19:02.
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Old 20th April 2021, 18:56   #45
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Indian middle class and covid 19 - Source : Pew Research Centre, USA

The novel Coronavirus infects everyone — regardless of their economic status, because it essentially spreads just the way economic growth does — via human interaction. In other words, controlling the virus’ spread and limiting the damage on the health side necessarily, by definition, results in incurring economic losses.
Millions of people will not only lose part or all of their current incomes but also the means to earn their income. What’s worse, since India’s economy was already decelerating before the pandemic, people do not have the savings to fight for long. Sooner rather than later they will see a sharp worsening in their economic, physical and social wellbeing.
Pre pandemic, it was anticipated that 99 million people in India would belong in the global middle class in 2020. A year into the pandemic, this number is estimated to be 66 million, cut by a third. Meanwhile, the number of poor in India is projected to have reached 134 million, more than double the 59 million expected prior to the recession.
75 million people will have been pushed back to abject levels of poverty (of living at less than $2 a day). The lesser highlighted issue is that India’s middle class was reduced by one-third — and that is just the impact of the last year. Given its severity, the current second wave and its economic impact could well mean that India’s middle class will be reduced to half of what it was before the pandemic.
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