A YetiGuide® : How To Post In Proper English

mayankk · 11th April 2016, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by reverse_gear

Technically, "people" can have a plural as "peoples" in certain contexts. This is relevant when people as a noun is used to describe a breed or race or nationality. For example, Kumaon people in singular, and mountain peoples of the western Himalaya in plural. Somewhat similar to the plural of fish being either fish or fishes depending on the context.

Anyway, in the current usage, it should be people's. No confusion on that part.

There are two kinds of peoples in this world?

I checked, and found that "peoples" may be used in certain contexts. However, if I am going to be faced with this usage, I would alter the context to avoid using it. And that not just because there is some level of disagreement, but because "peoples" just refuses to roll off my tongue.

noopster · 11th April 2016, 15:22

@anupmathur-

I don't think you're getting it. The possessive apostrophe only appears after the word when a plural is involved. e.g. "the cows' owner" (meaning the owner of multiple cows being referred to). If it were a single cow, it would be "the cow's owner".

Similarly if I were referring to "peoples" in my statement rather than "people", e.g. "The documentation of marginalized peoples' struggles across the world has been done rather well in this book" that WOULD be a correct (albeit clumsy) usage.

Thad E Ginathom · 11th April 2016, 18:00

Thank you peoples, for clearing up my confusion, and for being patient with my errors!

I think that a singular possessive can have the apostrophe at the end if the word or name already ends in the letter s. I am not sure. Really: I am not sure!

Afterthought: Would I write Nicholas' or Nicholas's? Probably the latter.

anupmathur · 11th April 2016, 18:10

Noopster, try this:

He was the people's hero.
He was the peoples' hero.
Both are plural and both are correct.
Quite a difference from cow and cows, where both are not plural.

samaspire · 11th April 2016, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I think that a singular possessive can have the apostrophe at the end if the word or name already ends in the letter s. I am not sure. Really: I am not sure!

Afterthought: Would I write Nicholas' or Nicholas's? Probably the latter.

I have always thought that that was case (apostrophe at the end if the word already ends in the letter s). Now I'm not sure.

Here, Nicholas is a proper noun. Any other instance where it would work?

reverse_gear · 11th April 2016, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayankk

There are two kinds of peoples in this world?

I checked, and found that "peoples" may be used in certain contexts. However, if I am going to be faced with this usage, I would alter the context to avoid using it. And that not just because there is some level of disagreement, but because "peoples" just refuses to roll off my tongue.

I will probably feel the same, but on the other side there is Sir Winston Churchill, who has written a thesis titled "A History of English Speaking Peoples".

If it works for him, I guess we have to accept it.

noopster · 11th April 2016, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by samaspire

I have always thought that that was case (apostrophe at the end if the word already ends in the letter s). Now I'm not sure.

Here, Nicholas is a proper noun. Any other instance where it would work?

Gayle is the West Indies' best batsman?

Infosys' last four quarters have seen 10%+ growth?

Am not sure myself hence the question marks.

Thad E Ginathom · 11th April 2016, 21:36

Peoples, meaning races. tribes, etc is fine. One might, I suppose, find some need to use the possessive!

Here is my next, prompted by the newspaper today, but it is regularly used on the forum: Completely Damaged. No, it is wrong: something can be slightly damaged, badly damaged, probably many different degrees of damaged, but not completely damaged.

Completely undamaged is fine!

Gansan · 11th April 2016, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Afterthought: Would I write Nicholas' or Nicholas's? Probably the latter.

The former would mean of every Nicholas, while the latter would mean that of one particular Nicholas, I suppose!

An Indian's passion is cricket; Indians' passion is cricket. Correct?

mayankk · 11th April 2016, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by noopster

Gayle is the West Indies' best batsman?

Infosys' last four quarters have seen 10%+ growth?

Am not sure myself hence the question marks.

Yeah right, not sure.

If the proper name/word ends with an S, that's the correct way to possess. If it doesn't, then follow with an S. Singular or plural, either case.

vnabhi · 11th April 2016, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by noopster

Gayle is the West Indies' best batsman?

Infosys' last four quarters have seen 10%+ growth?

Am not sure myself hence the question marks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayankk

Yeah right, not sure.

If the proper name/word ends with an S, that's the correct way to possess. If it doesn't, then follow with an S. Singular or plural, either case.

That's correct. At least that is what I was taught in school. As far as i remember, it referred to Ulysses. Something like Ulysses' travails.

Thad E Ginathom · 11th April 2016, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gansan

An Indian's passion is cricket; Indians' passion is cricket. Correct?

No, actually, because you would not say that. You would say that India's passion is cricket --- and, because rock, soil etc, can't have such a passion, it is understood that, when we use a country name like that, we are speaking of its people.

... or peoples. of course

samaspire · 12th April 2016, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Here is my next, prompted by the newspaper today, but it is regularly used on the forum: Completely Damaged. No, it is wrong: something can be slightly damaged, badly damaged, probably many different degrees of damaged, but not completely damaged.

Completely undamaged is fine!

Maybe it's because we equate completely with totally. Isn't totally damaged correct?

Here's something basic that's been bothering me for quite some time. For example:
Take home an IFB Washing Machine...

This sentence looks grammatically correct but I have this lingering doubt that "Take home a IFB Washing Machine..." may be correct in this instance.

Or should I just remove the article after home

Thad E Ginathom · 12th April 2016, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by samaspire

Maybe it's because we equate completely with totally. Isn't totally damaged correct?

No, It is not the completely that is wrong, but the damaged, so they are both wrong. The words just do not go together.

Quote:

Here's something basic that's been bothering me for quite some time. For example:
Take home an IFB Washing Machine...

This sentence looks grammatically correct but I have this lingering doubt that "Take home a IFB Washing Machine..." may be correct in this instance.

Or should I just remove the article after home

Don't you feel the jolt when you try to say "a IFB...?" That is why "an IFB" is correct.

noopster · 12th April 2016, 16:08

"A" or "an" depends purely on the sound of the following letter. While the general rule is that vowels get "an" in front of them and consonants get "a", this can change depending on whether the consonant sounds like a vowel, e.g. "an honest man", "an LBW decision" and so forth. Reverse is also true, especially where "u" is concerned, "a union representative", for example.

This is probably the simplest rule in the book. To be honest I didn't quite understand why @samaspire has a doubt regarding "an IFB washing machine".

11th April 2016, 15:22	#2432
noopster Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pune Posts: 9,269 Thanked: 13,249 Times View My Garage	Re: A YetiGuide® : How To Post In Proper English @anupmathur- I don't think you're getting it. The possessive apostrophe only appears after the word when a plural is involved. e.g. "the cows' owner" (meaning the owner of multiple cows being referred to). If it were a single cow, it would be "the cow's owner". Similarly if I were referring to "peoples" in my statement rather than "people", e.g. "The documentation of marginalized peoples' struggles across the world has been done rather well in this book" that WOULD be a correct (albeit clumsy) usage. Last edited by noopster : 11th April 2016 at 15:24.
	() Thanks

11th April 2016, 18:00	#2433
Thad E Ginathom Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 11,469 Thanked: 30,154 Times	Re: A YetiGuide® : How To Post In Proper English Thank you peoples, for clearing up my confusion, and for being patient with my errors! I think that a singular possessive can have the apostrophe at the end if the word or name already ends in the letter s. I am not sure. Really: I am not sure! Afterthought: Would I write Nicholas' or Nicholas's? Probably the latter. Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 11th April 2016 at 18:01.
	() Thanks

11th April 2016, 18:10	#2434
anupmathur Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Delhi Posts: 3,095 Thanked: 311 Times	Re: A YetiGuide® : How To Post In Proper English Noopster, try this: He was the people's hero. He was the peoples' hero. Both are plural and both are correct. Quite a difference from cow and cows, where both are not plural.
	() Thanks

11th April 2016, 21:36	#2438
Thad E Ginathom Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 11,469 Thanked: 30,154 Times	Re: A YetiGuide® : How To Post In Proper English Peoples, meaning races. tribes, etc is fine. One might, I suppose, find some need to use the possessive! Here is my next, prompted by the newspaper today, but it is regularly used on the forum: Completely Damaged. No, it is wrong: something can be slightly damaged, badly damaged, probably many different degrees of damaged, but not completely damaged. Completely undamaged is fine!
	() Thanks

12th April 2016, 16:08	#2445
noopster Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pune Posts: 9,269 Thanked: 13,249 Times View My Garage	Re: A YetiGuide® : How To Post In Proper English "A" or "an" depends purely on the sound of the following letter. While the general rule is that vowels get "an" in front of them and consonants get "a", this can change depending on whether the consonant sounds like a vowel, e.g. "an honest man", "an LBW decision" and so forth. Reverse is also true, especially where "u" is concerned, "a union representative", for example. This is probably the simplest rule in the book. To be honest I didn't quite understand why @samaspire has a doubt regarding "an IFB washing machine".
	() Thanks