[amitoj]

Originally Posted by bblost

Are you making fun of me or are you being plain rude or just an ***. (I put the stars on my own, because what I had in mind will end up getting changed to stars anyways.)

The tone of your post makes it feel so derogatory to call one self a code coolie but that is your call and I frankly don't care.

You may go ahead and put a reply to this post of mine but I am not replying to it. So I suggest you make it really good so I can repent not answering back.

LOL. Didnt you yourself say "yes sir! we are code coolies and proud of it!" ? And now you are confused whether its derogatory, humorous or the-next-thing-that-pops-in-your-head. I have no confusion about the kind of comments you have made though.

I only wanted to enlighten you about the difference between a coder and a programmer. I dont know what you do but since you called yourself a code coolie, then either you are a coder OR you dont even know whats a code coolie.

Do reply back if i have confused you even more about what you do

[BomBatt]

Guys, To each his own. If one is happy in whatever he is doing and being paid well why should we call names?

After my college, I was working in Marketing/Sales and was doing very well. Whenever I was striking a good deal, one my roommate who was into software used to say "you guys are sophisticated beggers."

Other day, I heard some minister calling a pilot as "dignified driver"

[headers]

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

Fire your HR. Your recruiting process is fundamentally wrong. You are not recruiting the right candidates for the job.

Sir, how do you say what you just said? What is fundamentally wrong if the trained person leaves an organisation..? I did not get you sir? Please elaborate..

[given2fly]

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Nopes none not even after joining. I gave my tax record voluntarily so that tax is calculated correctly.

The only documents that I submitted were:

- Degree certificates
- Relieving letters of all previous companies
- Birth Certificate
- Passport copy(at the current one)

No salary related document ever & frankly why would they, they are offereing me what I am worth(actually less that what I am worth, if only I had negotiated better )

Fantastic Negotiations, Buddy. Will explain later, why?

Originally Posted by hrman

Some interesting thoughts on this thread. My 2 paisa worth.

1.Background Check:

2.Experience: Relevant experience always helps and is one of the most important criteria for selection... Huh... If he was so good, he would have got thru campus right? Why does he want a job from me? Ill always go the experience way.

3. Last salary: Another benchmark to make an offer to the candidate. We always insist on last salary slip and follow it up with background check on last salary...
Internal parity should be kept and a 25-30% hike is not entirely abnormal. In fact, if the candidate willingly accepts a 10% hike, something is wrong.

Came through some interesting posts & couldn't stop myself from replying. While looking for jobs, I frequently come across the following criterias :

- Current CTC
- Expected CTC (negotiable / or as per company standard / or as per market standard will not be considered)
- Notice period (buyable or not)

While expectations should come after the operations & skills rounds are completed, they are often brought up by consultants even before you have applied for the job. Sometimes, they refuse to forward if you don't provide the details which is quite a sick practice in my opinion. Anyway, moving on to the interview details, I have seen that the most mundane IT support jobs don't actually go beyond what is written in JD and they don't project a growth path within organization @ the time of joining. At the end, you are left fuming @ the new job post joining and swear you will never join another company like this again.

However, some of the things I learnt to discuss at the time of next interview, are :

1. Not discuss CTC with the consultants.

2. Discuss components of CTC and whether anything is flexible so as to strike out anything unnecessary (Flexi-CTC)

3. Discuss rules w.r.t. movement within company & through roles.

4. Freedom of space to work & the actual scope of work and not the image showed in J.D.

5. MOST IMPORTANT, if a company acquires the one I work for, hiring terms & conditions shouldn't change. For me, it crashes the image when you say that we promised this, but we can't do this anymore because new company policies are different. Practically, there ends the association with the beliefs which you associated yourself with. HR in india does this quite often and especially when the policies are governed and made by Indian HR heads.


PS : Do compannies in India offer flexi-ctc?

[given2fly]

Did I mention bonds. Yes, even for a person with years of experience, they do come up with a clause that require to sign a time bound bond if you want to go overseas for "their projects" & name the bond as "knowledge transfer" or anything else, whatever suits their blessed mind! I had heard that it is offered for freshers in BPO and IT, but even for experienced guys, it does happen! (Mostly Indian companies follow this practice).

Never ever sign on dotted line with any bloody damned company!

[WhiteKnight]

Originally Posted by headers

Sir, how do you say what you just said? What is fundamentally wrong if the trained person leaves an organisation..? I did not get you sir? Please elaborate..

Buddy, you are the first in the world to call me sir, please don't.

Let me talk from my experience. One of the organization I worked had a 5-6 level interview process. If properly planned and executed, you can indeed break into the facade of the interviewee and understand his true intentions. For example, is he looking for money? Is he one craving for fast growth, is he faking his experience? Is he a knowledge-seeker etc.

As you know, a person leaving after a short term has financial impact on the organization. On top of that, it upsets planning and deadlines, which puts pressure on peers. So, isn't it better to deploy a better recruiting process than crib later? And if HR can't do it, what is the point?

I presume many have done interviews in your organizations. How many got a note from HR describing the competencies (soft skills as per IT guys) that are needed for the post?

[Samurai]

https://www.change.org/p/pmoindia-pr...ployees-in-tcs

The above petition talks about illegal terminations of 25000+ employees. Can anyone explain the illegality of the terminations? I see they are giving 30 day notice, I remember it being 3 months in my days. Is that the illegal part?

[coolclouds]

Originally Posted by Samurai

https://www.change.org/p/pmoindia-pr...ployees-in-tcs

The above petition talks about illegal terminations of 25000+ employees. Can anyone explain the illegality of the terminations? I see they are giving 30 day notice, I remember it being 3 months in my days. Is that the illegal part?

I think its as per the clause in offer letter. Usually its 30 days for junior positions. Some cases, an employer can terminate immediately by paying salary equivalent to notice period.

Others may please correct.

[sgiitk]

There is one major difference between India and the West. We do not have any half decent social security net to support the retrenchments.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

There is one major difference between India and the West. We do not have any half decent social security net to support the retrenchments.

Absolutely and we will never have one.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

There is one major difference between India and the West. We do not have any half decent social security net to support the retrenchments.

Yes, that is a big difference. Mind you in some Western countries there isn't much of a social security net, for instance the USA. You loose your job, you are essentially on your own. Also, you wont be able to afford health care insurance. Its one thing losing your job and income, but for many that will also mean health insurance as that is often provided via your employer. Most can see themselves through a few months with no income, but any medical emergency is likely to bankrupt you, or you just die if you cant pay. Never understood why a country with such a callous approach to social cohesion and care wants to call themselves the greatest nation on earth.

During our years in Kansas city, i fell of my bicycle and did my shoulder in. Went to the Emergency room, where they took one x-ray plus some more test. i was seen by two doctors, in all I spend probably about 2 hours in the ER. I was diagnosed with a separated shoulder and other then prescribing pain killers there was nothing to it. The bill came to $ 2500,--.! A year later, would you believe it I was hit by a car of my bicycle. This time I was taken to the hospital by ambulance and there were more doctors and test involved and 15 stitches in my head. All in all about 3 hours in ER. This time the bill was $ 5400,--!

It's all a bit relative, because in most European Countries the social security provisions have been tightened up considerable over the last 10-15 years compared to what it once was. People are very upset about it. But even that reduced level is far superior to what it is here in India.

I have lived nearly three years in India and before that three years in the USA. Vastly different countries and cultures obviously. If there is one similarity it is the fact that there is little in terms of social security, so having a good education, a job, making it on your own is much more important and relevant then I see it in Western Europe. Im not saying one social system is better than the other, but it does drive individual behavior.

[Samurai]

High gain always comes with high risk. And low risk only gives you low gain. Therefore, one should always match their risk adverseness to their profession.

• Want no risk of losing job? Join government service or PSU. You will keep your job irrespective of your competence. But you will have to settle for low pay. Remember, low risk, low gain.
• Want high pay? Take up high flying jobs in Finance or Business or IT industry. You will get big salary, often much more than you deserve. But you will not get job security or any safety net. Remember, high gain, high risk.
• Want huge success and adventure? Start a company. You might become the next Facebook, or get bought by Facebook for $19B. Or you might lose everything and go bankrupt. This is a case of maximum gain, and maximum risk.

This is the reality. If you are dreaming about high gain at low risk, you are ripe for a rude awakening, literally.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Absolutely and we will never have one.

The NPS foresees higher job mobility (even though it was primarily to reduce the pension burden) and also may have an element of social security.

[TheTeacher]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Mind you in some Western countries there isn't much of a social security net, for instance the USA. You loose your job, you are essentially on your own.

Some states give you an unemployment dole. This will only start after sometime, is limited in duration, and one can barely subsist on it. Better than nothing, I suppose. Unless you have something to fall back on, one is screwed. Royally.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by Samurai

High gain always comes with high risk. And low risk only gives you low gain. Therefore, one should always match their risk adverseness to their profession.

• Want no risk of losing job? Join government service or PSU. You will keep your job irrespective of your competence. But you will have to settle for low pay. Remember, low risk, low gain.
• Want high pay? Take up high flying jobs in Finance or Business or IT industry. You will get big salary, often much more than you deserve. But you will not get job security or any safety net. Remember, high gain, high risk.
• Want huge success and adventure? Start a company. You might become the next Facebook, or get bought by Facebook for $19B. Or you might lose everything and go bankrupt. This is a case of maximum gain, and maximum risk.

This is the reality. If you are dreaming about high gain at low risk, you are ripe for a rude awakening, literally.

Completely agree. You've nailed it totally except for some minor semantics on point 2, but that's details.

Only thing on point 3 is that the probability of a wildly successful venture (a la whatsapp or even Flipkart etc) is miniscule.