[Samurai]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

As one of the above ilk. I vehemently disagree.

For not only is your post without a scad of reason, you compare it to the wrong things as well.

I thought I gave the reason in a nutshell, I guess you didn't read. Business experience before MBA is very necessary. As an experienced person now if you are still not convinced, I don't think I can convince you by arguing over the keyboard.

Originally Posted by phamilyman

How about some reason, the great samurai?

What's with the sarcasm? Need for experience before MBA is common sense, if you didn't know that, mocking me won't change the facts. I don't have to justify it, it is a well known fact, top MBA schools in the world won't even consider a freshie.

Originally Posted by phamilyman

most starter post undergrad jobs pay crap involve crap work. Doing coding post engineering/IT may give OD experience but zilch business understanding.

As I said, you didn't read. I specifically said business experience foundation.

[Team_Godspeed]

Originally Posted by Samurai

So you want to do two more years of the same?

Seriously, doing MBA without experience is like letting teenagers drive cars. MBA needs a certain business experience foundation to be really understood. One should not be allowed to take up MBA without 3-5 years of working experience. But then it is done routinely in India, just like teenage driving.

i am guessing you are well and over your half century time and hate teenagers who drive chicks haha kidding
anyways im over my teens dude but the way you presented and related the whole thing was very disturbing and totally meaningless.
What has teenagers driving cars got to do with engineers wanting to go for mba

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by Team_Godspeed

What has teenagers driving cars got to do with engineers wanting to go for mba

if u can't understand that, u need a lesson in language too.

No offense meant, but for somebody with no inclination towards maths, real world experience, and current academics and no perspective towards the most important questions "why MBA" (remember, "no matter what"), the admission process itself will decide the due course.

Samurai may have taken a humorous approach (which itself is a criteria in some B-school admissions), but even otherwise, I think you have a tough task ahead if you want to pursue business studies in a school of international repute.

I am in the process of applying myself this year and not finding it easy to answer the essay questions

[prajwalkashyap]

Originally Posted by Team_Godspeed

i am guessing you are well and over your half century time and hate teenagers who drive chicks haha kidding
anyways im over my teens dude but the way you presented and related the whole thing was very disturbing and totally meaningless.
What has teenagers driving cars got to do with engineers wanting to go for mba

Its meaningless to do an MBA without any business experience. Even if an employee is just sitting in one corner of the office and coding away, there is a chance for that person to experience and understand how a business works, how decisions are taken (such as appraisals or promotions, etc), how business processes work; and be a part of the whole system in some capacity. This enables that person to properly understand the management theories that are taught in the B-Schools. Else for a fresher, in an MBA class and learning "Leadership skills, corporate governance, corporate social responsibility, employee performance measurement, etc" will all mean nothing and he'll just be seeing stars throughout. MBA classes involve plenty of peer discussions, real life experiences, and interactive discussions, and a person without any experience will not be able to contribute nor learn anything meaningful.

This is the very reason that well established B-schools abroad insist on work experience to join an MBA course. Unfortunately, in India, money is the driving force and quality of education takes a backseat for b-schools and these have no such criteria in admiting students.

I just graduated with MBA/Mcom in Dec 2007 from RMIT Uni in Aus. And I can understand the importance of work experience while doing an MBA course.

And about teenagers driving cars was to emphasize the lack of maturity on the road when it comes to complex situations. Anybody can drive a car, but it calls for experience when handling complicated situations.

My 2 cents.

Prajwal

[vivekiny2k]

ok, now that we have started it here, I would appreciate if any Tbhpians can thrown in opinion about B-schools in US, UK, Canada, and India. I can take it offline if you wish.

I would love to do it in US but apparently once you file I-140, chances of getting a student visa are next to nil. am exploring executive MBA in US too for the same reason.

immigration to UK and canada is easier for my profile, but I am not very much convinced about the lifestyle.

[Fountainheader]

Originally Posted by Eddy

I agree. That is the best forum for MBA information. If the Mods are okay with posting these links here (please delete if needed),

Discussion thread on job profiles after MBA - PaGaLGuY.com - The Everything of MBA, CAT 2008, GMAT, XAT, IIM

Job profiles after MBA - PaGaLGuY.com - The Everything of MBA, CAT 2008, GMAT, XAT, IIM

PhamilyMan: whats your handle at PG ?

Nice to see someone mentioning pagalguy on TBHP. I am moderator out there.

My 2p out here.

MBA over the past 5-8 years has become a totally over-hyped degree. The growing rate of the no. of B-Schools in India, is directly in competition with our population growth rate. There are few reasons why doing an MBA has become a "things to do before I die" event.

1: Big bucks - Talk about placement reports and media/news channels flashing packages in crores and billions and all that nonsense.

2: Fad - Yes! It is a fad to do an MBA. It gives you the feeling that Shashi Kapoor had when he said "Mere paas Maa hai". Maa -> MBA. Just a letter idhar udhar.

3: Peer pressure - This is where all the freshers get hooked on. Your classmate/best friend/GF/BF is preparing ? So do you. Mom says to do that because bagal wali aunty ka bunnu is also doing the same. And there are many more reasons such as trying to find a GF at IMS to hazaar other ones. Lets leave them aside.

4: Leaving all these 3 options, there are around 1-2% of the candidates who really think that "at this point of their life" they need an MBA. And your typical B.Tech with no knowledge doesnt qualify. Talk about the 44-yr old DIG, who did his MBA from IIM Ahmedabad after working for 22 years. That IS a genuine candidate.

Coming back to me, I am a fraud B.Tech in Mechanical Engg, who still aint sure the difference between petrol and diesel engines. A typical 2 year work-ex at one of the biggie software firms, and then an MBA from an institute ranked somewhere between 8 and 15. I passed out in March. Joining work in a few weeks time.

What has MBA given me ?

1: Some gyaan. Mostly keywords - ROI, EBIDTA and such nonsense
2: Some really wonderful classmates, with whom discussing anything under the sun was an awesome experience
3: A 3-month vacation in Europe - Also known as Student Exchange program
4: And last but not the least, my take-home salary has multiplied 3.5 times, to what I was getting when I quit my last job in June 2006.

And did I talk about the reasons for doing an MBA earlier ? Most of them are fraud

[Team_Godspeed]

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

if u can't understand that, u need a lesson in language too.

No offense meant, but for somebody with no inclination towards maths, real world experience, and current academics and no perspective towards the most important questions "why MBA" (remember, "no matter what"), the admission process itself will decide the due course.

Samurai may have taken a humorous approach (which itself is a criteria in some B-school admissions), but even otherwise, I think you have a tough task ahead if you want to pursue business studies in a school of international repute.

I am in the process of applying myself this year and not finding it easy to answer the essay questions

surely you are not suggesting that an mba course is much harder of a course than engineering
(8 semester of hardcore maths , equations , derivations and 6 foot long theorys + using and studying of the useless grandpa aged machinery) damn never

[Team_Godspeed]

Originally Posted by Fountainheader

Nice to see someone mentioning pagalguy on TBHP. I am moderator out there.

My 2p out here.

MBA over the past 5-8 years has become a totally over-hyped degree. The growing rate of the no. of B-Schools in India, is directly in competition with our population growth rate. There are few reasons why doing an MBA has become a "things to do before I die" event.

1: Big bucks - Talk about placement reports and media/news channels flashing packages in crores and billions and all that nonsense.

2: Fad - Yes! It is a fad to do an MBA. It gives you the feeling that Shashi Kapoor had when he said "Mere paas Maa hai". Maa -> MBA. Just a letter idhar udhar.

3: Peer pressure - This is where all the freshers get hooked on. Your classmate/best friend/GF/BF is preparing ? So do you. Mom says to do that because bagal wali aunty ka bunnu is also doing the same. And there are many more reasons such as trying to find a GF at IMS to hazaar other ones. Lets leave them aside.

4: Leaving all these 3 options, there are around 1-2% of the candidates who really think that "at this point of their life" they need an MBA. And your typical B.Tech with no knowledge doesnt qualify. Talk about the 44-yr old DIG, who did his MBA from IIM Ahmedabad after working for 22 years. That IS a genuine candidate.

Coming back to me, I am a fraud B.Tech in Mechanical Engg, who still aint sure the difference between petrol and diesel engines. A typical 2 year work-ex at one of the biggie software firms, and then an MBA from an institute ranked somewhere between 8 and 15. I passed out in March. Joining work in a few weeks time.

What has MBA given me ?

1: Some gyaan. Mostly keywords - ROI, EBIDTA and such nonsense
2: Some really wonderful classmates, with whom discussing anything under the sun was an awesome experience
3: A 3-month vacation in Europe - Also known as Student Exchange program
4: And last but not the least, my take-home salary has multiplied 3.5 times, to what I was getting when I quit my last job in June 2006.

And did I talk about the reasons for doing an MBA earlier ? Most of them are fraud

Now this guy is my IDOL OF THE YEAR and thats what i wanted to know and that pretty much sums everything up :-)

one more question dude does it need the same kinda work you put into engineering to pass? Or just a bonus course you do to forget about the b.tech load

[Fountainheader]

Originally Posted by Team_Godspeed

Now this guy is my IDOL OF THE YEAR and thats what i wanted to know and that pretty much sums everything up :-)

one more question dude does it need the same kinda work you put into engineering to pass? Or just a bonus course you do to forget about the b.tech load

Talk about B.Tech load !!

There is only 1 difference between B.Tech and MBA. And that is grading. While B.Tech across most Univs in India is done on an absolute %age basis, MBA on the other hand is all about Relative grading. What you get depends more on what others do.

Otherwise, both degrees.. or for that matter any degree in India (Except MBBS) is all about mugging the night before exams, working on projects at the 11th hour.. and submitting assignments 15 secs before the deadline.

I'd request you to read this book called "Joker in the Pack". A nice description about the 2 years of the life called MBA.

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by Team_Godspeed

surely you are not suggesting that an mba course is much harder of a course than engineering
(8 semester of hardcore maths , equations , derivations and 6 foot long theorys + using and studying of the useless grandpa aged machinery) damn never

depends on where u do it from.

if u do it from ISB or similar, it would more like a job in a corporate. deadlines, project reports, late night discussions.

if you do it from IIXXXXM from XXXXpur , it is again deadlines, project reports, discussions, but at the level of your B.tech.

about grandpa aged machinery, I think that's the best way to learn basics of mechanics rather than CNCs and other gadget controlled machines where u have no idea how it's working.

And almost every school I registered for, asks for specifics of math and statistics taken at undergrad level, and some even recommend taking preparatory courses in maths before joining.

[Samurai]

Fountainheader, thanks for some sane words and myth busting.

Originally Posted by Team_Godspeed

i am guessing you are well and over your half century time and hate teenagers who drive chicks haha kidding
anyways im over my teens dude but the way you presented and related the whole thing was very disturbing and totally meaningless.
What has teenagers driving cars got to do with engineers wanting to go for mba

Well, I am yet to hit 40, but that's not important. What was curious is that the only two people who didn't understand my analogy decided to insult me instead.

I think Prajwal already put it down quite brilliantly. Most of us including myself have done teenage driving, most of us including myself have done stupid things on road in that phase due to our immaturity.

We had a course on Engineering Economics and Management in my final year of engineering. That was the only business course we had and it just flew above our head. It was not the math that was tough, but it was the bean counting concept. I loved to design a circuit that would solve a problem, but the idea of finding the cost of manufacturing that circuit was absurd. Damn, that is the job of sleepy accountants, or so we thought. So doing MBA never even came up, I was too much into technology.

After 11 years of work experience, I finally took up MBA to understand the business end of technology. My first paper was Economics, and suddenly everything made sense, unlike in my college days. And so it continued into all the course. There wasn't a single course whose concepts I hadn't encountered at work.

Originally Posted by Team_Godspeed

one more question dude does it need the same kinda work you put into engineering to pass? Or just a bonus course you do to forget about the b.tech load

It has nothing to do with toughness. It is a different ball park. You are not just dealing with numbers unlike an engineer. Here you dealing with real money, real people, real companies. As a fresher if you encounter a question like "A company branch with 1000 people is running under loss, what to do?", you might logically and easily pick the option of downsizing the whole branch. However, if you have worked in a company, been part of a group, understand about company culture, company politics, loyalties, ethics, etc., you would not pick the downsize option that easily. Lots of decisions you take in MBA case studies depend (apart from math) on ethics, politics, good will, loyalty, PR, etc., which can't be calculated in your HP business calculator. And you can't learn the real meaning of those words (not dictionary meaning) until you work for few years.

In the absence of experience, one gets to depend too much on math parts which can be calculated and neglect the non-math part of the equation. That is why one needs to have work experience before taking up MBA.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Business experience before MBA is very necessary............

Originally Posted by prajwalkashyap

Its meaningless to do an MBA without any business experience.

Originally Posted by Samurai

In the absence of experience, one gets to depend too much on math parts which can be calculated and neglect the non-math part of the equation. That is why one needs to have work experience before taking up MBA.

You all are right in saying that. The way I see it is this. An experienced person will extract much more "value" from an MBA then a fresher.

But there is another angle.

MBA from a top-tier school gives you opportunity to interview with Top 5 Consulting companies and bulge bracket Investment Banks.

So, as a fresher with B.Tech it makes lot of sense to "waste" 2 years doing MBA. Because at the end of it you get:

1. Awesome network
2. Ticket to interview for top $$$$ jobs

Now if you have "dum" to make use of these, then its one of the best starts of a career.

[Team_Godspeed]

Damn samuri if you just typed the whole thing the first time you replied then that would have ziped my mouth :-)
isnt this possible like one could first learn the whole thing and then put it into work
the end effect would be the same rite. Both ways you get paid the same $ but the studying part would be harder for the unexperienced and im going to australia for it and yea paying for it

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by Team_Godspeed

Both ways you get paid the same $ but the studying part would be harder for the unexperienced

You wont get same $$ as a fresher.

Inflated placement figures that are flashed in news conveniently happen to miss the part saying "They guy who got 1 cror package came with experience of running XYZ.. for a SME for 10 years".

[phamilyman]

I thought I gave the reason in a nutshell, I guess you didn't read. Business experience before MBA is very necessary. As an experienced person now if you are still not convinced, I don't think I can convince you by arguing over the keyboard.

And I replied as well. Please tell me three decent jobs that pay well and give a person good business sense. I mean solid stuff, not just a wee bit.

What's with the sarcasm?

Nothing really. You're a special poster, someone I quite respect, and whose posts/threads I avidly follow, and what you're doing is something I wish I get to do soon in life as well. No mocking intended. More of shock.

Need for experience before MBA is common sense, if you didn't know that, mocking me won't change the facts. I don't have to justify it, it is a well known fact, top MBA schools in the world won't even consider a freshie.

Sir the best and brightest of India's MBA students go and do investment banking in US of A, UK alongside who? Undergrads from arts, history, literature in investment banks who work as analysts. People there (in my work experience only) are much more process/business oriented than our average undergrad are. And that is just one example I am extremely painfully aware of. Ditto for alot of their analysts in firms - they are much more open to business than I've seen alot of my friends who took up jobs post graduation (and from an IIT etyadi mind you).

As I said, you didn't read. I specifically said business experience foundation.

So I asked, I'm not really aware of people who got business experience foundation in an average job. Some of my IITians friends who got good business fundae got it in companies that were KPOs or consulting firms - NOT those in core IT/process jobs.

I am personally sure that I've learnt infinitely more in my six-nine months post MBA than I would've in two years of grad exp. Jobs in USA aren't the same (atleast some I know) as the ones I know alot junta do. Or maybe since you've been in USA long enough, you can tell me the difference. What say?

PS: No sarcasm, but then your statement was what'd classify as a "motherhood" statement as well. No wrong intentions from my side. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll check your CJ340 brake upgrade thread