[honeybee]

Here's my dilemma. I have been working in IT for the last 10 years or so. During the recession I (had to) quit the job, and then for some domestic reasons I had to stay home for a few months without regular employment. During this time I decided to invest in a project management course. I have completed the advanced program in project management from SP Jain. More than six months later, I find that I am still not going to get any Project Manager's position. With my total IT experience, having spent the last four years as Team Lead/Project Lead and now with a project management certificate (albeit part time) I find nobody really wants the skills and knowledge I have to offer. Most of the companies I interviewed for were interested more in my technical/coding skills than my project/team management skills.

One of my other hobbies is driving. Can I cultivate it into a meaningful employment? Suppose I take up this basic automobile course offered by Navnit. Can I expect to get a fairly senior level position where I can observe and lay down processes for efficient working of a service centre or dealership?

[vishnurp99]

I have around 6 years of experience in the IT industry(infy). 3 years in Bangalore and 3 in NY and now back in india. For a change i actually like my job but am not happy with the prospects for growth that i have in my current job. The fact is that the industry has become saturated in the terms of opportunities. The problem is intensified because a lot of people in the software industry has grown(in terms of job responsibilities and paypackets) without having the real skills for the job during the boom period of 1998-2007. I know that there was a recession in between but i see this period as a time of democratic growth for all those who were involved in the industry. As a result now we have a huge queue of more experienced people for the few opportunites that are still there.

This is making me consider getting myself an mba. I see MBA as a way to bypass this huge mass of people who are more experienced than me and get one of those few good opportunities which are still around in india. Would this be a good reason to get an MBA? The other thing is i have worked with a few MBA's in india and in the US. I was an onsite coordinator at BOFA on behalf of Infy. I didn't see anything special in some of these folks.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by honeybee

Most of the companies I interviewed for were interested more in my technical/coding skills than my project/team management skills.

That is very understandable. In fact, the very next post by vishnurp99 mentions the reason. They obviously value your technical skills which are more in demand than managerial skill.

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

The fact is that the industry has become saturated in the terms of opportunities. The problem is intensified because a lot of people in the software industry has grown(in terms of job responsibilities and paypackets) without having the real skills for the job during the boom period of 1998-2007.

Exactly! If every guy wants to be a manager after 4-5 years of experience, there bound to be too many managers and a very few people to manage. Designing/developing/testing/maintaining are all hardcore skills. Management is basically a soft skill. In a healthy IT industry, the ratio between hard and soft skill employees should be 80:20. Unfortunately in India we have the wrong ratio thanks to decades of neglect towards technical skills.

Originally Posted by honeybee

One of my other hobbies is driving. Can I cultivate it into a meaningful employment? Suppose I take up this basic automobile course offered by Navnit. Can I expect to get a fairly senior level position where I can observe and lay down processes for efficient working of a service centre or dealership?

It is a move dictated by heart rather than head. You will be discounting all your IT skills and will be making lot less money in the end.

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

This is making me consider getting myself an mba. I see MBA as a way to bypass this huge mass of people who are more experienced than me and get one of those few good opportunities which are still around in india. Would this be a good reason to get an MBA? The other thing is i have worked with a few MBA's in india and in the US. I was an onsite coordinator at BOFA on behalf of Infy. I didn't see anything special in some of these folks.

MBA won't make you special. What you would do with your MBA can make you special. This is a good time for you to do MBA. But don't expect your MBA degree do all the magic, MBA merely gives you the tools to uplift your career, you still have responsibility to use the tools.

[greenhorn]

@ vishnu, if all those last day mails you've been receiving haven't been enough stimulus, I dont know what will. It's a sinking ship. Not unlike the world of Dagny Taggart in 'Atlas Shrugged'. Get out & into the unknown ( that is , unless you are married+kids and can't risk much )

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by Samurai

It is a move dictated by heart rather than head. You will be discounting all your IT skills and will be making lot less money in the end.

I have successfully completed a project management course, which is PMBoK 4 (the basis of PMP certification) and three extensive modules on risk management, customer/vendor relationship development, team building, communications etc. What disheartens me is I have never been asked any questions on any of these in all my interviews so far. The companies I have worked for have rarely cared if their managers or leaders had any of these skills. So what is the point of hoping to get a good job when your education or skills are not in demand?

If after studying for project management, I am expected to take up the role of a senior developer, it's like the woks manager of a service centre attending to the faults of a car, with a pathetic excuse that nobody is available to attend to it. This is what the IT industry in general needs to recognize.

IT has been my passion for so many years, but now I am doubtful if I would be able to take any satisfaction in a job that relies more on the skills I acquired ten years back than the skills I have acquired in the last six months.

Right now I am searching for a job, also running a small consultancy business that keeps a small trickle of money flowing in. What's wrong in thinking of taking up a job with let's say the auto industry where I can hope to utilize my project management or process building experience? From the posts on this forum, it sure looks like the auto industry needs such skills (though I don't want to boast that I have what it takes to turn it around).

As far as money is concerned, I can do with a little less if the job is more satisfying. As with every common man, I have focussed on the monetary aspects of my job a little more than necessary. Now I am looking for something that will allow me to use my skills and give me satisfaction.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by honeybee

I have successfully completed a project management course, which is PMBoK 4 (the basis of PMP certification) and three extensive modules on risk management, customer/vendor relationship development, team building, communications etc. What disheartens me is I have never been asked any questions on any of these in all my interviews so far. The companies I have worked for have rarely cared if their managers or leaders had any of these skills. So what is the point of hoping to get a good job when your education or skills are not in demand?

Well, the interviewers are entitled to ask questions that they feel are relevant. One cannot evaluate a manager merely based on interview Q&A, the past successes and failures have to be considered too. Besides, most interviewers would vary their questions based on the impression they get from the candidate.

Originally Posted by honeybee

If after studying for project management, I am expected to take up the role of a senior developer, it's like the woks manager of a service centre attending to the faults of a car, with a pathetic excuse that nobody is available to attend to it. This is what the IT industry in general needs to recognize.

Why is it a pathetic excuse? If the service center doesn't have enough mechanics, then they'll need mechanics rather than works manager. I am not sure what you want the IT industry to recognize. Do you want them to recognize that a person qualified for managerial position doesn't want to take up technical position?

Originally Posted by honeybee

IT has been my passion for so many years, but now I am doubtful if I would be able to take any satisfaction in a job that relies more on the skills I acquired ten years back than the skills I have acquired in the last six months.

I think the trouble is that these guys value your time tested skills and experience than your recent certification.

Originally Posted by honeybee

What's wrong in thinking of taking up a job with let's say the auto industry where I can hope to utilize my project management or process building experience? From the posts on this forum, it sure looks like the auto industry needs such skills (though I don't want to boast that I have what it takes to turn it around).

Nothing wrong if you are aware of the risk you are taking.

Originally Posted by honeybee

As far as money is concerned, I can do with a little less if the job is more satisfying. As with every common man, I have focussed on the monetary aspects of my job a little more than necessary. Now I am looking for something that will allow me to use my skills and give me satisfaction.

That is a good reason, and keep looking until you find something that will work out for you.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Just for the sake of others viewing this thread, i will put down a bit more in detail (As its partly in the other thread) and i still have some questions in mind.

• I'm a 2008 passout in B.Tech Mechanical (Automobile) engineering.
• Couldn't take risks w.r.t to job and had to join IT.
• Have around 20 months of IT experience.
• Looking forward to changing profession into the auto industry AFTER MBA.

My problems are-

• My project is horrible. 2-3 weeks a month in night shift, 2-3 weekends in office (12 hour night shifts for weekends), job is absolute waste of intellect (monitoring an environment and informing support). Only 2 people will be in office floor at night. No social life at all. Health going haywire due to weird eating/ sleeping patterns etc. I feel i am growing backwards ever since i joined this project. No chance of roll off.
• Cannot prepare or join MBA classes at the point due to unpredictable timings/ hectic long schedules.

My questions-

• Is 2 years work experience good enough for MBA in a decent institute?
• My 2 years work experience completes only by sept 1, which leaves me with no time for CAT preperations. Hence, i was planning to quit in July with 22 months IT experience. Will prepare for CAT during the next 3-4 months (Hopefully, i'll get enough for some decent institute!).
• After CAT, will work temporarily in some service centers. Two advantages- 1. I'll get basic experience in auto industry to show during placements/ interviews. 2. I'll complete 24 months of work experience. Or is it not a good idea?

Other points already mentioned by GTO-

• Salary will be less in a service job- I am ok with it in the short term. If this is the plan, i plan to go for MBA next year itself (CAT 2010).
• Get 1 more year of work experience at the minimum(Total 3 years)- But it would be REALLY HARD to continue here another year. I'd rather prefer an automobile job with lesser salary back in Trivandrum. Same is the opinion from family as well! Is 3 years a basic criteria companies look for? I heard from seniors/ friends (who have done MBA) that 2 years experience is the general trend (basic requirements) during placements.
• MBA from a good institute- Really hard to study with this job. Thats why i am thinking of resigning 2-3 months in advance and give it a proper shot for CAT 2010.

I'd be glad if people can help me out with this decision.

Originally Posted by GTO

I reiterate, that Navnit program is NOT for you to pursue full-time (9 months or whatever). Your profile is over-qualified for that, and neither are you their target student.

I take this point 100%. Navnit is not there as an option anymore.

[honeybee]

@Samurai,

I wanted to quote different parts of your post and reply to them, but I guess it's better if I summarize my thoughts here. And please note I agree with most of the observations you have made, but I feel there's a difference in the job profile or job responsibilities of a line worker and a manager.

Let's take the automobile industry as we are all familiar with it. If you are to attend an interview for the post of the works manager for a Maruti service centre, there's no doubt you need to be qualified and experienced enough to know about automobiles in general and the Maruti cars in detail. You should know the characteristics of each and every model that Maruti services currently, should know the procedures for all the different types of diagnostic, servicing and repair activities carried out in a typical service centre. That goes for the technical part. As a works manager, does your job involve getting a spanner in hand and attending to a car that is waiting for an oil change? No. Your job would be to get a mechanic to do it. Manage a team of mechanics so you can complete all the activities on the car from running / accidental repairs, servicing, washing, PDI, test drive and delivery to the customer. So while you are expected to know a mechanic's job inside out, you aren't expected to work as a mechanic. If the service centre is running short of mechanics, you would also be hiring mechanics, not become one.

If you have a very good mechanic who knows each and every specification of all the Maruti models produced and sold till date, knows each and every step of carrying out any types of repairs/servicing activity, would you promote him to a Works Manager position? Hardly. To become a manager, he needs to also bave management skills.

So, while Maruti people would surely probe him for his technical understanding, they would (or should) be more interested on his managerial knowledge/abilities if they want to make him a Works Manager.

And now you go for the interview, sit there for an hour and keep answering questions on the oil change procedures for the Baleno, the AC compressor stats for the Versa, the suspension setup on the 1994 Maruti 800 and so on. Do you think that would be the right way to choose a Works Manager? Would you not like to demonstrate how you can organize the different activities in a workshop so you can complete the routine paid service for a car within two hours? Enhance customer satisfaction? Ensure employee job satisfaction? Minimize conflicts between various departments?

One of the reasons projects fail is the project manager seldom has time to manage the project. He is too busy with the execution of it. I have worked with a company where the Business Delivery Head, someone who had more than 80 people working under him, still came into the office at midnight and debugged code to troubleshoot a problem. While I applaud his technical skills, I am sorry for the company, because it shows that he cannot/is not allowed to, manage his eighty people effectively.

[Samurai]

I agree with what you are saying. But what was the position you were interviewing for? If the interview was for a manager's role, why were they considering you for a developer position?

[e1t1bet]

Need advice urgently, because I have to let institutes know.
IIM A (PGP) vs IIM C (PGDM)
Where should I head? I have no particular interest in finance or marketing or ops or anything (at least at this juncture). All I know is that I am disinterested in HR.

[StarVegabond]

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

Need advice urgently, because I have to let institutes know.
IIM A (PGP) vs IIM C (PGDM)
Where should I head? I have no particular interest in finance or marketing or ops or anything (at least at this juncture). All I know is that I am disinterested in HR.

If I were you, i would go for IIM-A ofcourse.

I suggest it is time, you need to decide on the specialization. Both both markeitng and finance IIM-A is better.

Second option for me would be IIM-Bangalore, why you are not considering it being a bangalorean ?

[e1t1bet]

Originally Posted by StarVegabond

If I were you, i would go for IIM-A ofcourse.

I suggest it is time, you need to decide on the specialization. Both both markeitng and finance IIM-A is better.

Second option for me would be IIM-Bangalore, why you are not considering it being a bangalorean ?

I don't have a call from Bangalore, so that is a good enough reason

Yes, I do have specializations in my mind. I just believe that I would be able to make a more informed decision 3-4 months into the course.

[StarVegabond]

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

I don't have a call from Bangalore, so that is a good enough reason

Yes, I do have specializations in my mind. I just believe that I would be able to make a more informed decision 3-4 months into the course.

Did you opt for Bangalore as an option when you filled the forms ?

For both Marketing and FInance, IIM-A has good faculty as well as placements. Bangalore also has good marketing faculty. I have studied in IIM-B, but way back in 2004.

[e1t1bet]

Originally Posted by StarVegabond

Did you opt for Bangalore as an option when you filled the forms ?

Yes, but I was not shortilisted for the interview process. Thanks a lot for your input though.

[StarVegabond]

Hi Crazydriver

Let me share my view on your questions.

My understanding of your profile is as below

Age : ~ 24 years
Qualification : B.Tech Mechanical Engineering with some elective in Automobile Engg
Grade : ???
Experience : 20 Months
Type of Experience : IT Services (Monitoring, Maintenance, Service), Appears not relevent to the qualification
Learnings on the job : ???
Skillsets : ???

Ambition :
-----------
1. To be in Automotive Job, need more specifics, is it in design, engineering, product management, business operations, marketing / sales / service / F&A / HR etc

2. To study MBA. Need to be more specific Marketing, Finance etc

Methodology
---------------
1. Complete 2 years of experience
2. engage is some part time job
3. study and appear for CAT 2010
4. Get into good MBA school

My view on above

1. Just completing an education will not change anything. e.g. you completed BTech in Mech, but did not use the same at all.

2. Every job has some learnings. please summerize yours, it will help you in your interviews atleast. The person who always says negative things about the enviornment he is in is not considered a good Business Manager. Having a more balanced outlook is always good.

3. As a Business Person, i can say that 2 or 3 years of experience does not make any difference. what is appreciated is how relevent is the expereince, what are your learnings, how you have imporved, how your thinking, organizing and executing skills have improved. How disciplined are you, how self driven/independent are you etc. You need to give serious thoughts to these aspects rather than 2 or 3 years of experience.

4. You also need to give more thoughts to what exactly you would do after your MBA, what is your specilization in MBA, what prospects it will bring to you after 2-3 years hence. what basic skills needed to be successful not only in MBA course, Which institute, how you will conduct yourself during the studies, But also after MBA while working.
You need to understand these things else there are chances that your MBA may not help you to succeed just like your B.Tech did not help you these 2 years.

5. Lastly i consider following important that differentiates a person from others i.e Values (What is important to him/her), Mindset (Thinking that that gives an edge to him/her from others) and how the person applies values and mindset to the day to day situations.

Just getting a qualification is not good enough for a successful career.
Getting educated and applying the learnings to solve the day today problem one faces on the job is the key to successful career.