Team-BHP - The Team-BHP Swimming Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by am1m (Post 4628986)

Question about the TI technique (as far as I can see from the video, TI is basically the same as the freestyle but without using the feet) vis-a-vis reducing lap time, am confused about how not using the feet to kick while swimming, or only one kick per stroke is faster? Shouldn't it be the opposite? If you kick continuously, with proper freestyle technique, won't you be faster? TI might be more efficient and might help one swim longer (though even then, won't using your entire body help with that too?), but am thinking just in terms of lap time.

Or is the time reduction happening because the freestyle technique in the first place, before taking up TI, was flawed? Like keeping the head above the water, or raising the head each time a breath needs to be taken, something like that?

I will jot down my observations on this. (Hope these makes sense - since I am a person who learnt swimming just 5 years back & so am a novice).
To me TI is a refinement of freestyle. The basic rules of freestyle still apply (like head position).
The first improvement I experienced was the way my hands & body moved thru' the water post TI. Earlier, I used to feel a lot of water resistance on my hands while swimming freestyle & hence used to kick frenetically, to overcome this.
When I started twisting my body & using my core to cut through the water (as in TI), my hands felt as if they move thru' the water with not much effort. I guess - as a result I did not feel the need to kick frenetically & slowed my kick-speed which contributed to me not feeling tired. All this was happening even while my speed was increasing. (I am yet to master the 2 kick-glide technique, but now my current "continuous kick" feels less strenuous).

Thanks,
AJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJo (Post 4629048)

To me TI is a refinement of freestyle. The basic rules of freestyle still apply (like head position).
When I started twisting my body & using my core to cut through the water (as in TI), my hands felt as if they move thru' the water with not much effort. I guess - as a result I did not feel the need to kick frenetically & slowed my kick-speed which contributed to me not feeling tired.

Thank you, this has been very helpful in making me understand a bit more about TI.

Most good coaches for advanced swimmers from the university level up will also emphasize core utilization and optimizing your kick and breathing cycle for each swimmer to achieve their individual best and most efficient performance.

So essentially, it does seem like TI is basically freestyle done correctly. (and of course packaged and branded and monetized ;))

Quote:

Originally Posted by am1m (Post 4629069)

This was the point I was trying to make a few posts earlier as well. Looks like it is all down to what level of coaching one gets. I was lucky to get trained by coaches who trained state level athletes so probably picked up the right techniques and don't seem to be enamored enough by TI to change to it from freestyle.
This seems to be a great tool for people who can be self-taught or who have been taught incorrectly and want to self-improve.

AJ has very clearly explained his experience. My experience is also almost similar. I will just add a few points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by am1m (Post 4629020)

Is TI just normal freestyle re-packaged?

The short answer is Yes. TI is just normal freestyle with some tweaks that focus more on efficiency than explosive power. The two main changes between regular free style and TI are the 2 beat kick vs. 4 or 6 beat kick, and the way the hands are synced. In regular free style, usually, the propelling arm starts a little before the recovering hand enters water. In TI, the propelling arm starts the stroke only after the recovering hand enters water. Because of this you always maintain the spear position which reduces drag. But the 2 beat kick will take away some propulsion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by am1m (Post 4628986)

TI is basically the same as the freestyle but without using the feet) vis-a-vis reducing lap time, am confused about how not using the feet to kick while swimming, or only one kick per stroke is faster?

No. One kick per stroke (called the 2 beat kick in TI) is not faster, but just easier. I have experimented with both the 2 beat kick and the continuous flutter kick. I definitely used to get a little faster lap time with the continuous kick, but it used to be a little strenuous and I used to get tired after 100 meters. But when I switch to the two beat kick, I could swim without getting tired. The longest continuous swim I have done is 2.5km (100 lengths of the 25m pool). I would never be able to do this with the continuous flutter kick (at least with the level of fitness I have).

This definitely does not mean you cannot do long distance swimming with the flutter kick. I have seen very fit swimmers who do the regular freestyle complete a 5km open water swim in just under an hour. So, it all comes to how fit someone is. For an average or below average guy like me, TI makes much more sense than the conventional freestyle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdst_1 (Post 4629126)

This seems to be a great tool for people who can be self-taught or who have been taught incorrectly and want to self-improve.

Totally agree with this. TI is very helpful for those who started swimming late in life and those who have developed a wrong technique. If you had the right training and had developed proper form, I don't think there is a need to change to TI.

As I was never a good swimmer to begin with, I really do not know if TI will be useful to a pro level swimmer :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by graaja (Post 4629147)

But when I switch to the two beat kick, I could swim without getting tired. The longest continuous swim I have done is 2.5km (100 lengths of the 25m pool). I would never be able to do this with the continuous flutter kick (at least with the level of fitness I have).

This is very useful real-world info, I too have a lack of endurance and fitness, so am going to try the 2-beat kick and see if it helps.

(Though, as an aside I remember my coach telling us that if you really needed to cover long distances in open water, the breast-stroke works best.)

Thanks all the contributors for clearing up the confusion about TI and freestyle!

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdst_1 (Post 4629126)

I was lucky to get trained by coaches who trained state level athletes so probably picked up the right techniques and don't seem to be enamored enough by TI to change to it from freestyle.
This seems to be a great tool for people who can be self-taught or who have been taught incorrectly and want to self-improve.

For most coaches, their maximum audience is athletic younger people. Here basic technique allied with age & athletic ability (AA) does the trick. (Efficiency is not given much thought especially for short pool swims).
When it comes to teaching a middle-aged average joe with a paunch. (somebody like me), efficiency in the water matters far more since age & AA are not on your side. I think this is where TI really helps.

To begin with I was very skeptical of TI too. About 2.5 years back I was doing 1 km in under 22 mins in regular freestyle. Subsequently I had cervical spondylosis along with a pinched nerve which almost incapacitated my right hand for a few days). When I started swimming again, I found I had lost most of the strength in my right hand & it took 30 mins to do 1km (alternating between freestyle & breast-stroke). I found I could not swim 1km freestyle at all. (I tried several times).

Post this I started experimenting with TI & I feel it has certainly helped me. I am back to swimming 40 laps of 25m in freestyle with hardly any fatigue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJo (Post 4629201)

Post this I started experimenting with TI & I feel it has certainly helped me. I am back to swimming 40 laps of 25m in freestyle with hardly any fatigue.

I guess it also depends on what you are looking to achieve. Due to being young and aim being trying to participate in competitions, we used to be more worried about sprints rather than endurance training. I don't remember doing more than 8 laps at a stretch when training at our 25m pool. Usually, I used to prefer just 4 laps or 100m as I preferred speed over endurance and was quite fast despite my smaller height.
So even 15 years later, now, when I enter a pool, my mentality leads me to go for speed rather than continuity. I still find it difficult to control myself and I usually try and achieve 4-5 strokes before I take another breath, even though my lung capacity has fallen a lot over the years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arpanjha (Post 5119949)

Any good leads for a decent swimming goggles? I happened to buy a goggles online from Amazon, Nivia 4087P. It was lying unused because we were not using the pool due to covid scare. Now after a 4 month break we started using the apartment pool again, but just after 3 days of usage the strap just gave away.
I find my earlier local u branded goggle much robust, though it often fogged up. Any leads to a good one will help.

I find the goggles from decathlon to be very good. I have used a model that costs about 1000 INR and it is quite durable.

Happy to see many in this thread who started learning how to swim late in life. I was one of those as well, and it's been totally worth it. Learning how to swim allowed me to do triathlons, an aquathlon and a lake swim, and motivated me to undertake pool lifeguard and swim teaching certifications so that I could teach the skill to others.

Swimming is just like driving -- a highly specialized and technical skill that requires a high level of coordination between the brain and limbs to ensure smooth movement!

Where I was growing up, we did not have access to a single pool within a 10 km radius. The training methods used then in many places were very crude, too -- kids were just pushed into the water and forced to fend for themselves.

Now, at least in Bangalore, most apartments have swimming pools and there are quite a few pools within a 5/10 km radius. The teaching methods are also better. However, I still do not feel most people (kids and adults included) are taking advantage of this.

Swimming is a survival and life-saving skill. It's also part of the school curriculum in a few countries. Additionally, humans are terrestrial creatures, and the ability to master a different medium -- water -- gives a lot of confidence.

Kids and adults, please learn swimming. And yes, it's not too late. It's never too late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasi55 (Post 5331698)

motivated me to undertake pool lifeguard and swim teaching certifications so that I could teach the skill to others.

adults, please learn swimming. And yes, it's not too late. It's never too late.

While there are tons of pools and classes, almost all the pools are <5 feet deep. I took lessons in my apartment clubhouse but am not at all confident to go into deep waters. Never learned to thread water since the pool is not deep enough for adults. Any pointers to overcome this?

Do you teach in Bangalore? Where?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaguar (Post 5332365)

Never learned to thread water since the pool is not deep enough for adults. Any pointers to overcome this?

Do you teach in Bangalore? Where?

It’s true that most apartment pools are <5 feet deep. I teach in apartments in and around Ramamurthy Nagar.
There are a few Olympic sized pools in Bangalore (Sadashivnagar, Basavanagudi, and Ulsoor) that are open for classes and even on a per hour basis. You could check out the Kensington pool in Ulsoor — if paying by the hour during the public timings, they usually cordon off the deeper half for safety reasons, but the shallower side is almost 6-7 feet deep as you near the halfway point where it’s cordoned off. But it’s recommended trying only in the presence of someone who knows how to swim or can assist if required.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasi55 (Post 5331698)

Kids and adults, please learn swimming. And yes, it's not too late. It's never too late.

Well said. Commend your focus and ability in doing so good in swimming even after learning in later age. Swimming has got a lot to do with psychology as well. From childhood, there is a fear psychosis created by elders to discourage kids from venturing into waters. Once you grow up, very tricky to come out of that mindset.

I spent 12 years of my childhood where our house was just 100 mts from Kaveri river(heck, I even wanted to name my daughter as 'Kaveri' which was out voted by family lolz). At night could hear the sound of water flowing aswell. Every year we used to witness 10-12 drownings which limited our water games to just knee level deep. Being so close to water in childhood, I was always attracted to swimming.

When I got my job in Bangalore, I started going to public batches in Jayanagar pool. But I never got the hang of techniques which swimmers use so effortlessly. When we put our daughter for coaching, I also joined 21 day course. That is when I learnt the nuances of proper swimming. Even now, I dont call myself a good swimmer, but if need be can come out of deep water. Few things I like to share from my theoretical knowledge I gained seeing umpteen
YouTube videos and coaching are as follows( pardon me if I'm repeating those already covered in this thread before)

Get your body temperature to pool water temperature before diving into pool. Spend good time under shower making sure your ears have attained the pool water temperature.
Do not fight the water. Be one with water. Treat water as your friend. The more you struggle, the more you get tired.
Stretch well before getting into water. Having cramps or muscle catch in water is not a nice experience.
Do not try to keep your head(neck up) above water. This is the most common mistake we do and get tired. All you need is a gulp of air every few seconds and you can get that by bringing mouth out of water and taking in just enough of air needed for next few seconds.
Do not hold breath. If you hold your breath, your lungs act like balloons and you upper torso will float up making your lower body sync and in no time you will be vertical in water than horizontal.
Practice bubbling. Smooth and easy.
While swimming, keep you head in the water, chin down. This is a common mistake. Our head is easily 5-6 kgs weight. When we lift our head, it will in turn have effect on vertebral column to bend and make the body vertical in water.
Mix strokes to avoid getting tired. I found breaststroke to be the most relaxed.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
HTC