[Rocky_Balboa]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

They are shooting themselves in the foot if they think they can get away with such attitude.
Seems you need to look at the horizon again.

Absolutely Spitfire, further discussions lead to the Director stating "You wouldnt understand unless You sit in my seat". I couldnt help myself but tell him "Until then, make me understand".
I have lost all my hope in the company, if not for the interesting project I am in, I would have been long gone. Time to start hunting again.

Originally Posted by Mr_Bean

I have been witness to all these things & tell you the projects becomes shaky in the long run, a mix of senior & junior experience is required but at times the manager gets it wrong

Originally Posted by Gandhi

That's sad. Any number of freshers can't replace someone who has been working on the project for years.

Infact, the Director (I report to him directly) had the audacity to state that its ok for the quality to go down when fresh replacements arrive!

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by Rocky_Balboa

Absolutely Spitfire, further discussions lead to the Director stating "You wouldnt understand unless You sit in my seat". I couldnt help myself but tell him "Until then, make me understand".
I have lost all my hope in the company, if not for the interesting project I am in, I would have been long gone. Time to start hunting again.




Infact, the Director (I report to him directly) had the audacity to state that its ok for the quality to go down when fresh replacements arrive!

Well without getting emotional we need to see what the business needs. In certain outsourced deals clients are willing to pay only X amount becuase they have very clear idea on how they will use outsourced resource. If the job demand is routine and a 2 -3 year experienced person can fulfill it there is no justification to keep a 12 year experienced 4X costlier person for same job. Usually if a company has lots of projects senior person can be moved to the project where he can be utilized best but for smaller companies loosing the resource and cutting cost is only option.

In my company there is a concept of class hire ( for Architect, Senior positions) where there is no upper limit if the exact requirement is fulfilled and value is brought in but for mass hire there is a defined band and company will not go above that and will rather pick another candidate from market.

[Mission_Safari]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Appraisal process in my company for my group was completed yesterday.

I know my rating so i can make a fair guess of hike in my compensation which should be in range of 18%-22% and not to mention a promotion that is confirmed

Avi, Are you serious ? If this is true i will be the happiest man when i get the letter

[msetlur]

I got a 10% hike. Am in discussions with some of the top football clubs in the EU to see if I can buy a stake.

[oss]

Everyone talking about hikes

My company played dirty by skipping hike last year and paying some piddly amount early this year. Now they say you all have just got a hike, so next hike will be by the end of the year only - which i know they will drag till early next year

Can you beat this.....

[Ranjan Sharma]

Originally Posted by oss

Everyone talking about hikes

My company played dirty by skipping hike last year and paying some piddly amount early this year. Now they say you all have just got a hike, so next hike will be by the end of the year only - which i know they will drag till early next year

Can you beat this.....

HP did not give hikes for 2 continuous years. It's only this year they gave good hikes (That too not to all).

Patience pays

[Rocky_Balboa]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Usually if a company has lots of projects senior person can be moved to the project where he can be utilized best but for smaller companies loosing the resource and cutting cost is only option.

Agree with You totally, Amit. It has been different here, one example given below:

A new project, X, is conceptualized and touted to make or break the company's fortune. The funds for this project literally goes from the employees (salary revisions) and not from any clientele. This has been the case for almost two years now, so the expectation is that the best persons are working round-the-clock to make it see light.

One fine day, the entire testing team vanishes from the project and are found in another location in bangalore - new, short-term, local onsite project. Only 10% of the product has been tested and major revamps had taken place post this move.

The management simply puts that the short-term project delivers money and that delays in project-X dont matter or for the matter, the quality of it when only fresh grad's will resume(!!!?) the work. (no offence to freshers)

[oss]

Originally Posted by Ranjan Sharma

HP did not give hikes for 2 continuous years. It's only this year they gave good hikes (That too not to all).

Patience pays

That's waht keeps us from switching jobs frequently, right. But unfortunately when the new laterals come in at much higher salary, the conventional wisdom of 'patience pays' looks follish

Wish the HR guys start seeing sense in this madness.

[sbraj]

Originally Posted by amtak

I have got a 20% hike! This will help me continue my travel to Taloja! On thing that I have decided is that I am not going to use this extra cash for any other purpose but only Savings.

So, considering consumer price inflation at 17%, you got a net effective hike of 3%. Yeah, saving is a good idea.

BTW, most of us will not even be saving if you consider inflation. It is more like running on a treadmill. Though we feel we are surging ahead, actually we are where we were.

Originally Posted by Ranjan Sharma

HP did not give hikes for 2 continuous years. It's only this year they gave good hikes (That too not to all).

I heard from a close friend working there that there was a mid term hike for a select few in HP. This was done very secretly and is still kept under wraps.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Well without getting emotional we need to see what the business needs.

When you say something like that are you considering the business at hand?

These are not tapri shops running by the roadside.

For an IT company their human resource is their biggest asset.

Today a company taking up projects which can be handled by freshers or less experienced people and asking the seniors to leave is killing its future . Or rather they are thinking very short term.

Such companies will never get bigger more critical projects if this is going to be their attitude towards the experienced people in their company.

Also once word spreads around that such a company has acquired an attitude of the above rest assured if they do manage to get good projects requiring good experience they will mostly either get job hoppers on board or would never find the right people.

How you manage your resource pool is the strength of the top management. But if they have a view that hiring for less by bumping the valuable is the right way then they wont last too long.

[sbraj]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Also once word spreads around that such a company has acquired an attitude of the above rest assured if they do manage to get good projects requiring good experience they will mostly either get job hoppers on board or would never find the right people.

Adding to that, these freshers themselves will become experienced over a period of time. Will they stick with such a company? They will be looking for adding a couple of years to the resume and then hop on to a better place.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

When you say something like that are you considering the business at hand?

These are not tapri shops running by the roadside.

For an IT company their human resource is their biggest asset.

Agreed but tapri shop or non-tapri the revanue earned versus the cost needs to be kept in mind always. I am not in position to comment on this particular company as I am not familiar with what was the business but this kind things happen in following cases

1. Business is actually routine and low revanue earner and need low skills.

2. The only advantage a company has is cost advantage and is not willing to move up in value chain either due to management or financial constraints.

3. The market value of company is low and it can not raise finances from market to invest in R&D to move in next league.

Whatever is the reason it is clear that by adopting this strategy the management wants to just do cost arbitrage and as an employee one need to move on

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Today a company taking up projects which can be handled by freshers or less experienced people and asking the seniors to leave is killing its future . Or rather they are thinking very short term.

Well Sir most of the companies who take maintenance projects for legacy system ( known as sustainence) survive and florish on this strategy many divisions of TCS , Wipro and Infosys are good example of this cost arbitration strategy

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Such companies will never get bigger more critical projects if this is going to be their attitude towards the experienced people in their company.

Actually they do not need more experienced people and they have no desire to move up in value chain as the low risk , high volume, low margin business model is what they want.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

How you manage your resource pool is the strength of the top management. But if they have a view that hiring for less by bumping the valuable is the right way then they wont last too long.

Well keeping resource cost low by recruiting 10-15 K freshers every year and making 6 - 10 year people leave is one of the strategy some companies adopt and they consider that as management strength not weakness.


I am not defending anyone I work in a product company where business model is exact reverse but above is my conclusion based on the observation

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by sbraj

Adding to that, these freshers themselves will become experienced over a period of time. Will they stick with such a company? They will be looking for adding a couple of years to the resume and then hop on to a better place.

Yes this is exactly what these companies want them to do. You need to read between the lines for market communication of these companies , They talk of healthy churn , keeping the cost low and providing carriers to the freshers

At no point they talk of retrial benefits , long term product strategy , 5 years roadmap etc which most MNC captive units do.

[sbraj]

Amit, you are making very interesting points.

Originally Posted by amitk26

1. Business is actually routine and low revanue earner and need low skills.

Originally Posted by amitk26

You need to read between the lines for market communication of these companies , They talk of healthy churn , keeping the cost low and providing carriers to the freshers

Such a company would be a vicious trap for the freshers. Since the job needs low skills, there is no skill set enhancement. After some years of experience, would they be fit for a good role in other companies? Other similar companies too would be having similar strategy of taking freshers.

[Ranjan Sharma]

Originally Posted by sbraj

I heard from a close friend working there that there was a mid term hike for a select few in HP. This was done very secretly and is still kept under wraps.

I guess, 'secretly' is not the correct word. The hikes were given to people among the top 2 rating only in the name of 'Salary correction' . Others did not get it simply for 3 consecutive years. Wonder how they still stick around