[mohit]

Originally Posted by amitoj

...
Still, I think my life here is much better. Why? Because i get to spend time with my family....

Ditto! I remember the first week at my job here an my wife was amazed that I could be home before 6 and have energy left to go out and play with my son. I am not saying its true for everyone but its a viable option - and this is in reference to Toronto where the commute is similar to Bangalore.

[bblost]

Well I live in Hyderabad. Distance between home and office is 18 kms.
I leave for office at 9:30.
Am back before 6.
Also most days I cycle to work.

I come home and play with my daughter in the park.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by bblost

Well I live in Hyderabad. Distance between home and office is 18 kms.
I leave for office at 9:30.
Am back before 6.
Also most days I cycle to work.

I come home and play with my daughter in the park.

Good for you (and very brave as well!!)! I guess most days it does not rain in Hyderabad!

Here is another thing that has worked for me after moving here. No more late evening conference calls to attend!!

[absynthguzzler]

Originally Posted by vnabhi

@Arun---it is in everybody's dream to retire before 50, but unless you hit a jackpot, you cannot do that. Kids education, house loans, etc will make you work till retirement.

Thats exactly my point Venu saab, Stay in a place that helps u grow faster leaving all other comforts aside. Hitting the jackpot is all about such decisions.

[bblost]

Originally Posted by amitoj

Good for you (and very brave as well!!)! I guess most days it does not rain in Hyderabad!

Here is another thing that has worked for me after moving here. No more late evening conference calls to attend!!

I did miss out mentioning the late night calls.
Usually from 9:30 to midnight.

[chevelle]

Originally Posted by getsurya

Hi alpha1, Thanks for your response.

1. The creature comforts you can afford in India can never be done in USA
2. Labour is very expensive in USA, I have a full time driver, 24 hour servant, Gardener & other domestic aids in India. These are not affordable in US, inspite of making good money. It is not just money only, it is the 'convenience' you get in India with the time flexibility according to your choice, In USA- it is the other way, you are dependent upon their time provided to you! So, you end up doing all work on your own( I am not saying it is bad, however depending upon your age and flexibility this might not be a working option for everybody!) including cleaning the potty, washing clothes etc. Life becomes too robotic here due to addition of all these daily chores. I definitely miss my club visits once in a while in India on the weekends, here neither I can afford one nor I have time!!
3. Life in US has no variety and is laden with monotony. It is the same Burger King/KFC/Starbucks etc across the country even when you drive long. In India, drop of every 70 miles I can look for 'newness' in culture, food and as basic as 'chai' variety on the road.
4. What ever level/money you earn in USA, does not have any correlation to your social status( in most cases) as nobody cares! The psuedo culture is keeping their own children away from their parents, compare this with India(al least most of India, as of now), we still care for our siblings & parents/family.

Thanks for your opinion. I would like to add a different view to your take. Don't take it personally, just another perspective in lieu of your experience. Hope it is OK with you!

1. I found more creative comforts in USA than in India. In USA, i have few technological comforts that makes life easier. Certainly in India same is available but at higher price. So in order to afford them, you need to have more than 6-figure income. Even smaller things like electronics in Kitchen that helps in cutting vegetables is better in USA than in India. Even after 20 yrs, i still see my mother or my wife cutting vegetable with a knife in India. Here, we have replaced it with a slicer. No more finger cuts, no need to get knife out. Much safer, faster, efficient.

Again, i found more creative comforts in cars in USA than in India not to mention ability to own some really excellent engineered cars that would be very difficult to own in India.

2. Full time driver is of no use to us. Everybody in my family loves to drive. I think this becomes more useful in big cities because of bumper to bumper traffic, poor driving of bikes/rickshaws in India. Here, its a great way to enjoy when driving since lane driving is followed and you don't find people cutting you at all times. You wanna drive fast take it to the track. Easily available here. Maids and servants are useful. But when we had them in India, I never knew i could cook so well which i learned after coming here. Now i can cook various cuisine and love experimenting. I doubt if i would have done that if i had a cook at all times in India.

Additionally, adding such household chores haven't made my life robotic, it actually have made me active, helped me learn how to use various things that i could care less back in India. Yes, nobody likes cleaning potty, but half of that stuff is automated here so you don't have to worry about getting dirty.

At the end of work, i actually look forward to going to a club(gym essentially) here as it has multiple options like gym, swimming, racket ball, volleyball, basketball, rock climbing, sauna.

Also what excites me is driving to the club because of a good car, good roads, good comforts of the car. Missed all of those driving an i20/city there. I don't have to worry while visiting the club too about car getting keyed, hit or stolen.

3. With regards to food, i actually find more variety here than in India. Multiple cuisine that taste yummy. Multiple options like in Nor-Cal, you have starbucks but there is Pete's Coffee and Java City that rivals Starbucks in terms of taste and quality of coffee. Similarly, in central USA, i liked Dunkin Donuts coffee too. Similarly, we have in and out burger, burger king or mcd doesn't even come close to it. I don't see monotony with regards to food. Its a good thing i like testing all kinds of food available everywhere.

I can understand with regards to 'Chai' but i don't drink it so i don't miss it.

4. I do agree with regards to raising children. That is something which they need to improve upon but its their culture and we can always thrown in our own culture to the mix while raising our children to make sure they don't go the wrong way. This is more dependent on family and parenting skills which is totally off-topic here.

Just my 2 cents and as usual YMMV.

Originally Posted by amitoj

Here, I am the sole earning member of the family and yet, we are more happy thanks to the work-life balance.

I guess if I were to answer the original question of the thread, whether it is worth it or not, then i would say you can make it worth it. It is entirely up to you.

I agree. I like that i can be home at 5 pm and have more time with my wife. A great work-life balance can be achieved here with a little bit of an effort. I don't see that happening in India where it is a cut-throat world outside office and inside too.

Also, I was able to experience shooting range, hiking, skiing, rafting, parasailing and other sports over here which i would doubt I would have ever done in India. All of these sports within 100 miles of my place. In India if i had to do that, i would have to go North for Skiing, to Goa for Parasailing, somewhere in Himalayas for Rafting and somewhere in Mumbai for Shooting practice. I could do all of that within 100 miles of my place.

I do miss one thing about India. That is friends could go and hang out at any place at any time of the day. Its very hard to do that here as security and safety of others is of great importance and can't just chill out just about anywhere without inviting police.

[prasadee]

Originally Posted by absynthguzzler

2. Invest or plan to retire early instead of creature comforts. Personally, i feel working till 40-45 at the max and ensuring family leads a "respectable" life that is judged purely by you. One should plan that post 45yrs, he's got on average 80-100,000USD returns annually. The returns can be via investments/own business or just a job/specialization/consultancy that doesnt need you working 9am-5pm 365days a year.

$100K after tax, or pre tax. In either case - I would suggest that you do some math on the $100K annual returns at 45. Average life expectancy is 77 in the US and 83 in Japan. Most retirement income tools are available only after 60 or 65. Chips are stacked against younger people redeeming investments. For a person like me, buying lottery tickets as an investment strategy may seem smart considering the 100K at 45 goal.

I don't blame you - 45 did seem far off when I started working at 22. I am inching towards 45, and I can only laugh at the things that I assumed when I was 22.

[akas_chauhan]

Originally Posted by amitoj

That is a very good point about money.

I travel the same distance here as i did in Bangalore. Except that here it takes me 10-15 minutes of blissful driving and there it took me anywhere between 45 to 75 minutes of harrowing, frustrating tiring commute.

I think you were located somewhere in Bannerghatta Road.
When did you relocate?

BTW i completely agree with you. I also traveled same distance in Bangalore and spent almost 2-3 hour every day on driving/riding for a distance of 50 KM. Here i drive 32 Miles and i spent a little less than an hour.

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by getsurya

4. What ever level/money you earn in USA, does not have any correlation to your social status( in most cases) as nobody cares! The psuedo culture is keeping their own children away from their parents, compare this with India(al least most of India, as of now), we still care for our siblings & parents/family.

the "class-less" culture can be a +ve or -ve depending upon which side of the class you are coming from in India. So yes, somebody used to a class based status is going to be disappointed.

The flip side of parent/sibling story is it frees up their young minds to do better things in life. I was instantly reminded of this blog.

http://therodinhoods.com/profiles/bl...ans-don-t-turn

it's true it's not the best feeling when your children behave that way but I would rather see them happy and successful than hold them back for my own pleasure.

1. The creature comforts you can afford in India can never be done in USA
2. Labour is very expensive in USA, I have a full time driver, 24 hour servant, Gardener & other domestic aids in India. These are not affordable in US, inspite of making good money. It is not just money only, it is the 'convenience' you get in India with the time flexibility according to your choice, In USA- it is the other way, you are dependent upon their time provided to you! So, you end up doing all work on your own( I am not saying it is bad, however depending upon your age and flexibility this might not be a working option for everybody!) including cleaning the potty, washing clothes etc. Life becomes too robotic here due to addition of all these daily chores. I definitely miss my club visits once in a while in India on the weekends, here neither I can afford one nor I have time!!

This is also pointing to the class system where one depends upon less privileged to do their dirty jobs. Unfortunately this is also what causes the clash of classes, growing disillusion and crimes in metros in India. From their point of view, life is definitely not as Rosy in India.

Edit: I wanted to post this a while back on lack of "class" in US. It is rare to find a governer of state in India whose spouse is in active military duty. Here almost every high ranking official and even corporates have very strong ties to the military. Many ex-service-people themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikki_Haley

3. Life in US has no variety and is laden with monotony. It is the same Burger King/KFC/Starbucks etc across the country even when you drive long. In India, drop of every 70 miles I can look for 'newness' in culture, food and as basic as 'chai' variety on the road.

Food is indeed not as rich in US, don't know about other countries. Primary reason being food has been commoditized and the kitchens in homes are mostly for show. You would be surprised at how horrible some Indian americans cook while they look perfectly fine in their life otherwise. But it's a personal choice and while I am not a foodie, we rarely resort to ready-made/semi-made food. which means when on the road, the chains are actually a refreshing change.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by chevelle

Thanks for your opinion. I would like to add a different view to your take.

I have something to add here from my own experience. In my opinion, the very idea of emigrating is quite subjective. For example, when I lived in Europe for a few years, I found it easy to adapt to the way of life. In terms of cooking, cleaning, etc. as I did most of it myself in India. Except for washing utensils, but it only takes a few tries to learn how a dishwasher works! Despite alll these tasks, I found it easy to spend a lot of time outdoors. On the other hand one of my colleagues found it so challenging that he returned to India within a few months.
The difference as I saw it was his dependencies even when living in India. He was used to having someone cook/ clean/ iron clothes etc for him. All he did was turned up at work and then went home to everything in order.
Perhaps that is the reason he found it difficult to adapt in Europe.
All I am trying to say is that it is a cup of tea that some people enjoy more than others.

At the end of the day, it is ok to be homesick and yearn for tapri chai or wada pav or chaat. But try to put it against infrastructure, work/ life balance, facilities abroad and the overall standard of living. It is clear what I would prefer, but everyone needs to decide for themselves based on their priorities.

There is little reason in emigrating somewhere and living as an Indian. I have seen my neighbours move to the UK in the 80s. They lived there in the same way they did here. Now their kids are truly British, but these guys are stuck in a time warp, even when they return to India. Because the India they have in their heads doesnt exist anymore, we have moved ahead too!
It would be ideal that if we intend to emigrate we assimilate and adapt. If we want to continue the way we are, its better to stay back.

Originally Posted by chevelle

I agree. I like that i can be home at 5 pm and have more time with my wife. A great work-life balance can be achieved here with a little bit of an effort. I don't see that happening in India where it is a cut-throat world outside office and inside too.

True. I find that the commute itself is so stressful that there is hardly any energy left in the tank. Work itself is also quite stressful (in my field at least) as we have to keep watching out for fellow colleagues who run the rat race. In essence, most of the efforts are spent on activities that are not usually the most productive ones. This also results in less job satisfaction. Again, this is my experience. Others may find it easier to deal with such things.

Originally Posted by chevelle

I do miss one thing about India. That is friends could go and hang out at any place at any time of the day. Its very hard to do that here as security and safety of others is of great importance and can't just chill out just about anywhere without inviting police.

Friends & social life. For people with kids, they also miss the grand parents and the extended family. One key reason why we returned here, more the grand parents to be able to see and help their grand children grow. Totally subjective again.

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

It is rare to find a governer of state in India whose spouse is in active military duty. Here almost every high ranking official and even corporates have very strong ties to the military. Many ex-service-people themselves.

Vivek, forget military duty. most leaders and politicians here are now dynasties in nature. So all of them would be involved in ancillary activities making money off the guy who is in active politics. None of them even work, they are just busy making money mostly by nefarious activities and dabbling in real estate. Service to the country is a long way away from their heads.

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by getsurya

Hi alpha1, Thanks for your response.

Why not?

1. The creature comforts you can afford in India can never be done in USA
2. Labour is very expensive in USA, I have a full time driver, 24 hour servant, Gardener & other domestic aids in India. These are not affordable in US, inspite of making good money. It is not just money only, it is the 'convenience' you get in India with the time flexibility according to your choice, In USA- it is the other way, you are dependent upon their time provided to you! So, you end up doing all work on your own( I am not saying it is bad, however depending upon your age and flexibility this might not be a working option for everybody!) including cleaning the potty, washing clothes etc. Life becomes too robotic here due to addition of all these daily chores. I definitely miss my club visits once in a while in India on the weekends, here neither I can afford one nor I have time!!
3. Life in US has no variety and is laden with monotony. It is the same Burger King/KFC/Starbucks etc across the country even when you drive long. In India, drop of every 70 miles I can look for 'newness' in culture, food and as basic as 'chai' variety on the road.
4. What ever level/money you earn in USA, does not have any correlation to your social status( in most cases) as nobody cares! The psuedo culture is keeping their own children away from their parents, compare this with India(al least most of India, as of now), we still care for our siblings & parents/family.

Inspite of the above, we can learn a lot from USA. From MY perspective, the balance is much better in India than here. It depends on how you define 'standards of living' and to each, his own.

My advance apologies to anybody if this is coming across as a strong opinion, however I have seen US from a long time now and one of my hobbies is learning new cultures

I haven't followed this thread and only read the last page and the title to guess what the conversation is about. I just have one additional point to make here to the points that getsurya has mentioned - healthcare.

If you are earning well in India you have access to and can afford the best healthcare available anywhere in the world. In the U.S., a critical reason to hold on to a job is health cover. If you lose your job and because of the stress you fall sick at a time when you don't have health insurance - you're screwed. You'll be paying off hospital debt for the rest of your life:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...136864,00.html

On a personal note - I work for an American company and have consciously turned down offers to move overseas for a couple of reasons. As a growth story, India is the place to be (that will depend on your line of work). There are advantages and disadvantages to that decision, but on balance I can't complain. Some of my biggest professional opportunities have come from being in India. The other unintended benefit of staying in one place is that you build assets and nest eggs a lot faster and earlier in life, which translates into a degree of freedom that I doubt moving from location to location will give you.

[S_U_N]

Work/ life balance is something that you will find in European companies more than elsewhere. If they extend that culture to their Indian offices, you enjoy the benefits even while staying in India.
So, next time you are looking for work/ life balance, just try looking for opportunities to work with European companies. You do not need to go to Europe to experience this.

At the other extreme we have Japanese companies. If you join one of those, then be prepared to work for long hours.
Indian companies are somewhere in between, but mostly towards the Japanese side. If the client is Japanese, then you need to be prepared to work for 14 hours a day.
So, it depends on who is calling the shots.

Somehow all of this is not related to emigration at all. We are a global economy and global workforce. So, it is possible to experience some of global work practices and culture sitting right here in India.

[Reisender]

Dear All,

I need this clarification ASAP.
My cousin got a offer in Saudi and got 3 months visa stamped in his PP.

I Verified the consulting company is registered institute in MEA website.

I have these questions before we ask him to take the flight.

1) After two months, will it be possible for the company to retain the PP pertaining to get VISA stamped?

2) One year is the contract - but only three months is the visa period why?

3) Do we need seperate medical insurance?

4) Anything else in terms of contract/PP/VISA he need to be aware of?

Thanks for your time, Please someone responsd.

Thanks,

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by StarScream

If you are earning well in India you have access to and can afford the best healthcare available anywhere in the world.

Are you talking about mediclaim insurance paid by employers here? Otherwise in terms of what salaries we get, healthcare is quite expensive in India too.

I agree with your point about asset creation. However, in terms of emigration someone moving abroad will invest accordingly though it may not necessarily be in real estate. It is possible to live abroad and invest here quite easily these days.

Originally Posted by S_U_N

Somehow all of this is not related to emigration at all. We are a global economy and global workforce. So, it is possible to experience some of global work practices and culture sitting right here in India.

Yes, till you get an Indian manager who wants to prove you otherwise!
Take any major organisation here in Pune and check how life is now compared to even 5 years ago.
I know an example from your organisation, but lets meet up to discuss further

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by StarScream

If you are earning well in India you have access to and can afford the best healthcare available anywhere in the world. In the U.S., a critical reason to hold on to a job is health cover. If you lose your job and because of the stress you fall sick at a time when you don't have health insurance - you're screwed. You'll be paying off hospital debt for the rest of your life:

Don't worry the situation is fast becoming as worse here in India, unless you plan to visit the Govt hospitals.

Any idea how much is the cost of treatment for common issues like heart problems, diabetes, urinary/kidney problem, neuro issues?

In fact what about road accident emergency situations?
Cost of ICUs in a large hospital in India for a week (quite typical) is quite in-affordable unless you have sufficient medical cover.

Of course I am not talking about the people who are earning global salaries in India. Nothing in India is expensive in that case.

The healthcare cost in India appears deceptively cheap only because the cost of living / standard of living here is low compared to US/EU. We must also check the earning power of people in India compared to US/EU