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Old 18th July 2018, 12:13   #10351
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Something (read retirement) may be cooking in MSD's mind:

https://sports.ndtv.com/england-vs-i...ome-topstories
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Old 18th July 2018, 12:21   #10352
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He has scored 10K runs in ODIs
1 year more for the 2019 WC - Enough time for DK to prepare
He is past his prime as a batsman

Knowing him, I won't be surprised if he retires.

Will only miss the Lightning fast Keeper that he was and the cool head.
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Old 18th July 2018, 12:40   #10353
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Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
For starters, we need to get rid of our cheerleader coach.

There is talk of having 3; Kuldeep with Ashwin and Jadeja.

Considering there will be swing, we should consider having a good bowler to support Bhuvi & Bumrah (not Pandya). If we are selecting Pandya as a bowler because it supports our batting, we already take one wrong step. Test match positions should be given on primary skills; bits and pieces players will not help us win series.
Getting rid of the coach is not going to happen. It is a classic case of who is going to Bell the cat. On paper, India has been doing great! We are number 2 ODI side in the world, having lost only one of the last 7-8 ODI bilateral series in the last 2 years. Scratch beneath the surface you will see the chinks, but who is going to dig that deep?

I believe Dhoni is still the best keeper we have and his contribution on the field is valuable. As a batsman, I think he can still contribute. But not lower down the order. It has to be at Number 4. I think he still has this ability to scrap through and score some runs (though not beautiful as it used to be earlier) and occupy the crease.
Therefore my belief that with World cup in view, we should focus on developing a genuine Number 5 and a Number 6 who can also pitch in with 4-5 overs. I know they will persist with pandya at Number 7. 8,9,10 and 11 have to be bowlers and I hope they will select themselves within the next year or so.

Coming to the test.

If we are going to have Kuldeep, Ashwin and Jadeja, then with Bhuvi and Bumrah being other two automatic selections, do we have the leeway to select another swing bowler (other than Pandya)? Batting is too fragile if the ball starts swinging!

I think the swing bowler should be in place of either Ashwin or Jadeja. Ashwin has pretty ordinary record in England. His last visit was some time back so knowing him he would have worked on this, but i frankly have not so high hopes on him.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 18th July 2018 at 14:28. Reason: Trimmed quoted post
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Old 18th July 2018, 22:23   #10354
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Well deserved series win for England. They are the No.1 side in the world for a reason & they gave the Indian side a royal thrashing. This should be a good wake up call for Team India.

Loss in the Champions Trophy some years back got rid of players like Ashwin,Jadeja & Yuvraj from the team, doubt much will change now though.

Raina is a decent player & perhaps more in the team as a 6th bowling option. Looking at him, just feel he is past his prime.
I do not quite know if Kohli is aware that there is a serious issue in the middle order! Bumrah was badly missed in the ODI series.

Bhuvi is ruled out for majority of the series & Bumrah for some part which is a massive blow to the team. Bhuvi is also a handy batsman remember. Whichever team's lower order scores more will have the edge in the test series. Root coming back to form is a big worry for India.

What is the point of a yo-yo test if the team is going to field so badly.

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Rahul is good no doubt, but good enough to move our best Limited over one down player from that position? I don't think so!!
Rahul is good but he's only had a good IPL! I don't know how his recent form has been in the domestic season. I don't quite understand it when commentators say he should be picked in all 3 formats. Leaving him out of the 3rd ODI was a disastrous 'tactical' move! Rahane in SA was given chances & was told he would be ideal no.4 in England & then they dropped him. There's just no clarity & this will prove disastrous in the coming months.

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I believe Dhoni is still the best keeper we have and his contribution on the field is valuable. As a batsman, I think he can still contribute. But not lower down the order. It has to be at Number 4.
Dhoni is only in the side for his keeping it seems looking at his past couple of games. Its painful to see him bat now. I was also rooting for him to bat no.4 but if he plays so many dot balls in the middle overs that will put further pressure on the top 3. We are a very top heavy batting team right now.
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Old 19th July 2018, 12:00   #10355
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My starting 11 for first test irrespective of what happens in the warm up game prior to it..

Vijay
Dhawan
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Kartik
Ashwin
Jadeja
Shami
U Yadav
Ishant

Rahane and Pujara over Rahul as they have good experience batting overseas and more or less usually do well. If they want Rahul then make Rahane sit out for couple of matches.

Kuldeep maybe for Umesh if the pitch assists spinners more which I doubt it will if we go traditionally.

Pandya shouldn't be included. He brings nothing as seen in SA. We need proper specialists at all positions not bits and pieces players who think they are an all rounder. Plus with this line up we get a tail which can at least hang around for sometime. Hope Kohli/Shastri combo do the right thing this time otherwise hopes for a series win in tests ain't great.
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Old 19th July 2018, 14:51   #10356
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I would not have Jadeja in the playing 11 to begin with. Between him and Pandya, the latter should play. In fact, given Vijay's form, DK's unfamiliarity with English conditions, I might be tempted to play KL instead of Jadeja.

It is slightly defensive, but maybe we start that way and then see if a 5th bowler can fit in.

Edit: DK as a test wicketkeeper. Just does not sound right to me.
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Old 19th July 2018, 15:22   #10357
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I will get in Rahul at one down instead of Pujara. Pujara has not been confidence inspiring in foriegn conditions and with Dhawan, I think better to have one more opening batsman to counter for the early wicket.
Also get kuldeep instead of Jadeja.
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Old 19th July 2018, 15:23   #10358
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I would not have Jadeja in the playing 11 to begin with. Between him and Pandya, the latter should play. In fact, given Vijay's form, DK's unfamiliarity with English conditions, I might be tempted to play KL instead of Jadeja.

It is slightly defensive, but maybe we start that way and then see if a 5th bowler can fit in.

Edit: DK as a test wicketkeeper. Just does not sound right to me.
We need 5 bowlers as England has batting depth. Pandya is medium pace, bowls mostly short of length, no swing, so I don't see how he can be useful as bowling option. At least Jadeja can bowl long spells and English are usually not good against left arm spin. Or even Kuldeep will do.

DK is alright as a keeper. No better option right now unless Dhoni wants to come back and show us the marvellous defensive batting he did in ODI's
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Old 19th July 2018, 15:44   #10359
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I would start with Rahul & Dhawan. if one of them fails, Vijay could be brought back into the team. He does not seem to be playing like his 2015/6 version. Either he is auditioning for IPL or he is uncomfortable because Dinesh Karthik is in the team. Just trying to find what could be the reason as no opener needs to rush away like a train. esepcially when your last name is not Sehwag or Warner and you anyway have Dhawan at the other end.

Now that Bhuvi is injured, Kohli is the only player who is a certainty. Any of the others can be dropped without any big repercussions. I just hope we maintain any momentum we gain unlike the previous series where we gave it away after a strong start.

If we play well, this could be a career defining (or ending) series for Cook, Anderson and Broad. Perhaps even Moeen Ali. But from what we saw in the ODI series, it seems much tougher now and my overall optimism for this series is waning fast.
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Old 19th July 2018, 15:45   #10360
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It is slightly defensive, but maybe we start that way and then see if a 5th bowler can fit in.

Edit: DK as a test wicketkeeper. Just does not sound right to me.
That is ideally how it should be, considering there are 5 Test Matches so if you do falter you will get a few more chances to make a comeback. But Virat with his team selection has always a surprise up his sleeve. Hopefully we won't see KL Rahul keeping wickets to accommodate extra bowler/batsman.
Form & Fitness of Anderson/Broad are also critical to India's fortunes! Jade Ball is a good prospect.
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Old 19th July 2018, 18:19   #10361
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DK as a test wicketkeeper. Just does not sound right to me.
But is there a better option on this tour ?
KL isn't a specialist wicketkeeper and would they give a rookie Rishabh Pant a chance ? I'm not sure if the team management will risk it. In this scenario, DK is a safer bet, will be a different discussion if he were to fail (hoping he doesn't, since this seems like a purple patch for him generally and maybe his last chance as far as representing the country goes, test recall though is a bonus).
Between Jadeja and Ashwin I think batting prowess is more or less at same level though I think Jadeja always seems capable of better performances.
If Vijay/Dhawan/Pujara were to fail, KL can replace one of them as opener or come in at #3.
So, I think KL will miss out on the first test.
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Old 19th July 2018, 18:29   #10362
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Pant is scoring well in the A games, so you never know.

55* as I type this.
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Old 27th July 2018, 21:47   #10363
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Dhawan and Pujara failed in the warm-up game. I'd be shocked to see Dhawan and Vijay open the innings. I think Pujara will still play two test matches, even if he gets two king pairs- I want Rahane to play up the order.

A lot depends on how well Vijay and Rahul play the new ball bowlers and whether Kohli and Rahane can accelerate after in the middle overs. These four will be key to a series victory in England. Remember, they are still an unsettled side.

If we play 4 bowlers (which I think we should)- we better get 400-450 in out first innings.

Best opportunity for Kathik to grab the keeping spot from Saha.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 27th July 2018 at 21:48.
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Old 27th July 2018, 22:54   #10364
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Armchair critics are out in numbers again after MSD. I am just amazed that people don't grasp simple things.

2 innings where, MSD labored on alone; in one he saved India the embarrassment of a 150 run defeat, one he was trying to set up a score and no one was around him - if he got out, India would not have managed 200. He did wait to accelerate around the 45th over - it did not come off. These things happen in cricket. It isn't the first time and it won't be the last. It is ridiculous to see people going after MSD again.

Do people honestly expect him to go after the bowling in the 35th over with a lower order as India's? This isn't lack of understanding the game but lack of common sense. Yes, he isn't the finisher he was 5 years back, but when would anyone else step up?

The one thing he has said is that for him to pay with any sort of freedom, he needs a longer batting line up - part of the reason he was successful in the IPL. The day MSD thinks he is not doing justice to the team, he will step down, I don't think he is Kapil or Sachin or Ganguly who labored on and became a drag. I trust him and his decision that much. The team respects that too.

Our famed KL Rahul is still taking baby steps, either does a hundred or nothing, who is our No.4? Kohli is coming down the order and losing his stump to leg spinners? These are sign that needs to be addressed. I still think MSD is a good player at No.4 with players like Pandey, DK & Pandya playing as 5,6,7. Among our 4 bowlers almost no one can bat in ODIs - compare that to England - they bat till 10 (atleast). If this is the team, we would remain dependent on the top 3 for our wins and big scores - I just don't see how can you reverse it.

I understand people can have very strong reactions in the moment but you need to think things through realistically. We have a good team in ODIs, but not the best. Our biggest strength are our wrist spinners, batting pretty much evens out among the top 4 teams.

Last edited by pratyush6 : 27th July 2018 at 22:56.
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Old 27th July 2018, 23:07   #10365
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The one thing he has said is that for him to pay with any sort of freedom, he needs a longer batting line up - part of the reason he was successful in the IPL. The day MSD thinks he is not doing justice to the team, he will step down......
Well said.
I think Kohli is the best batsman to support Dhoni. I'd have Rahul at 3, Kohli at 4 and Dhoni at 5. DK and Pandya can take no. 6 and 7 in the ODI side.
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