[Oxy]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

The prime reason remains that we need a coach to challenge ideas by Kohli. A yes man/ cheerleader is what I see as the main culprit.

Anil Kumble was exactly that guy, someone who won't take every nonsense from the captain. Kohli promptly got him booted out.

What infuriates me is that Shastri and Kohli are treating this team as their own personal property. A billion plus people are attached with this team emotionally, and this is something they seem to not care about at all.

All of Kohli's pre series talk of "this is going to feel like a home series" has become an egg on the face moment. I am not convinced that he is captaincy material at all, considering his childish behavior off the field.

[PPS]

Originally Posted by Eddy

And that's where DK is failing. Although I am no fan of Pant's batting, I don't see him fairing much worse than DK.

Still feel Karthik should be given a few more innings although he's been in wretched form. Pant selection in the Test squad was a surprise for me to begin with. But who knows if he comes off, could be an inspired selection.

On this tour, the only other specialist middle order batsman in the squad is Karun Nair, who I guess will be given a game soon.

Karun Nair hasn't exactly been in red hot form in the 'A' games either. His selection is more out of hope because he got that triple 100 against England!

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

I'd rather have the situation that we do badly in this series and come well prepared next year than facing this situation next year.

When we lost in 2014, thats what they said. That the team is young & inexperienced, next time performance will be better.

We have two more away series after this; both in extremely tough conditions (Aus & NZ) where our track record is even more worse.

BCCI was smart enough not to schedule any test matches in NZ to avoid embarrassment!
Everyone is busy criticizing our Indian team but its important to appreciate England's high quality fast bowling. Anderson who is basically a swing bowler was seaming the ball yesterday while Broad who is a seam bowler was swinging it. Amazing skills those.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

How could you not mention the biggest one of them all, Matty Hayden?

Yep, usually left handers.
I am surprised we have not done the resurrection for Alastair Cook yet.

[C300]

Originally Posted by Oxy

Anil Kumble was exactly that guy, someone who won't take every nonsense from the captain. Kohli promptly got him booted out.

+1.
IPL has destroyed our test batsmen. I don’t see them succeeding in overseas tours.
Our best bet is flat Aussie wickets later this year. BCCI has rejected the day night test at Adelaide to protect our hapless batsmen

[NPV]

Originally Posted by comfortablynumb

Outplayed? Decimated or obliterated is more like it.

Shashi Tharoor too summed it up well but he also hopes for a turnaround

One can't help a feeling of disbelief at the abject failure of our much-vaunted batsmen in England. There's shock, denial, grief, & finally a resigned sense of inevitability. But a corner of one's mind hopes that it's just a collective bad dream from which we'll soon wake up.

Source

[harry10]

Originally Posted by C300

+1.
IPL has destroyed our test batsmen. I don’t see them succeeding in overseas tours.
Our best bet is flat Aussie wickets later this year. BCCI has rejected the day night test at Adelaide to protect our hapless batsmen

That's quite the sentiment most people have displayed all around. However, I disagree. Don't kohli plays IPL? Didn't AB played it? There are many more examples of people playing T20 and still doing great at test level.

The fact is every team struggles outside and are champions at home. That's been a trend since last few years. We need to accept few facts-

Vijay is past his time both abroad and home. Should be replaced as an opener.

Dhawan is only good in Asia.

Rahul needs more Ranji games and coaching as he has technical issues.

Kohli is the only one who can bat in these conditions.

Rahane has technique but is suffering from mental blocks. Again needs guidance and Domestic games to get his confidence up.

DK is past his time and need to develop someone else. Maybe Pant.

Ashwin is our true all around player.

Pandya is trying but ain't at level of Stokes/woakes.

Shami, ishant, umesh, bhuvi, bhumrah need to be protected in limited overs to get them ready in tests.

And most importantly we need to sack Shastri and get someone who isn't a yes man to kohli and can take hard decisions. Till then same old will happen. We will keep losing abroad. Embarrassingly too.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by harry10

That's quite the sentiment most people have displayed all around. However, I disagree. Don't kohli plays IPL? Didn't AB played it? There are many more examples of people playing T20 and still doing great at test level.

True. But as Gavaskar said last week, Kohli can take a break and return to playing cricket at the same standards without additional practice.
The others are not as gifted.

Perhaps we have been spoilt with the batting riches of the last decade and a half. With Sehwag, Dravid, Laxman, Tendulkar and to an extent Ganguly, we have seen some solid batting innings in overseas tests. There used to be some fight shown in contesting the match as against the 'boy on the burning deck' innings of the 90s from Tendulkar.

For the 3rd test, I would go with:

KL Rahul
Dhawan
Pujara
Kohli
Karun Nair
Rishabh Pant
R Ashwin
R Jadeja/ M Shami depending on the pitch
H Pandya
I Sharma
U Yadav
Coach: Sanjay Bangar

Give the top order batsmen more responsibility to bat longer periods of time; bat out till the next drinks break to start with; then bat a session and so on. I
Shastri is clearly the extra baggage due to which no one is able to focus on their strengths. Every other player is just looking to show intent.

'Showing intent' seems to be the bug bear of this Shastri set up as for MS Dhoni it had been something else in 2013/14 (learning/ holding their shape etc)

[PPS]

Originally Posted by C300

Our best bet is flat Aussie wickets later this year.

Everyone expected dry pitches in England a few weeks back but look at the swing this Duke's ball is generating. Kohli commented last month that by the time England tests arrive the team would be very comfortable with the pitches & look now what has happened, we are 2-0 down.

In Australia i expect something similar with their bowling attack consisting of Starc, Hazelwood & Cummins.

[C300]

Originally Posted by PPS

Everyone expected dry pitches in England a few weeks back but look at the swing this Duke's ball is generating. Kohli commented last month that by the time England tests arrive the team would be very comfortable with the pitches & look now what has happened, we are 2-0 down.
In Australia i expect something similar with their bowling attack consisting of Starc, Hazelwood & Cummins.

I agree the result could be similar but our flat track bullies enjoy batting there. There will be loads of runs from both side for sure.

[selfdrive]

We are seriously missing Bhuvneshwar Kumar. I wonder which bright spark had the idea to release him to play in IPL before such important tours.

@C300, the problem with flat tracks would be that our bowlers would not be able to buy a wicket there. Maybe it is time for Australia to bring back Usman Khawaja, if they want to build his career. Or anyone else they choose.

We are again back to hoping for the odd draw or surprise win, a long shout away from being a real challenger for the no. 1 test team.
One thing Kohli was correct about; the upcoming year will define his legacy and that of the team. Either an average one, or a good one. I don't see much greatness about this team.

Though I really hope we draw the series, target no 1 would be to avoid a whitewash first. Let us hope the guys can pull their act together. Seeing how it is going with the batsmen, I hope one of the bowlers can deliver the goods. If one of the other batsmen plays out of his skin for a match winning innings, it would be one that would define his career. Great opportunity for someone to stand up and be counted.

[C300]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

@C300, the problem with flat tracks would be that our bowlers would not be able to buy a wicket there. Maybe it is time for Australia to bring back Usman Khawaja, if they want to build his career. Or anyone else they choose.

I agree. Flat tracks actually suits Aussie bowling. They will be able to extract some juice out of the wicket. I cant see our current bowling crop consistently taking 20 wickets on those decks. Yadav, Ishant, Bhuvi will have long spells under the sun. Bumrah can be a surprise package there.

[msdivy]

Happy Independence Day!

[Chetan_Rao]

Ajit Wadekar has passed away. RIP.

[Eddy]

Prediction time guys:

- Kuldeep out, Bumrah in
- DK out, Pant in

Maybe, Pandya out and Karun Nair in.

What are your predictions ?

[carboy]

How can anyone predict random stuff like Kohli & Shastri selecting the team?