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Old 21st August 2018, 09:06   #10546
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Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
Call me a bit old fashioned, but this is my thinking.
Why do you need more than 2 days to get England out?

In fact if they were to survive 3 days, they could very well score 520.
There are only 2 days left now.

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I would have wanted them to bat till one hour on the 4th day to put the total beyond England's reach.
It's pretty standard practice to declare in the last hour of the day. The reason is that it's a very uncomfortable phase for opening batsmen. Even if they get set, it's not going to be of use because they can have to start from scratch the next day and get set again. They are not sure whether to defend or attack because only a few overs are left for the day. They have spent a whole day on the field & so they are tired. If one gets out, does the captain send a nightwatchman or a regular bat? There are so many such reasons because of which it's become more or less standard practice to declare at the end of the day when a 30 to 45 minutes are left.
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Old 21st August 2018, 09:14   #10547
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There are just 3 instances ever (so far) in test cricket when a team batting last has won scoring more than 400 runs:
418 (WI Vs AUS 2002-03)
404 (ENG Vs AUS 1948)
403 (IND Vs WI 1975-76)

So, chances are very remote but if England do win over the next 2 days it will be a new record and obviously it will be a historical, famous win against all odds, let's see.
you are absolutely right with your stats and as i mentioned in my earlier post, we may still end up winning this match by a big margin.
But, I can still remember couple of close calls while chasing a big totals. Who can forget Nathan Astle innings of 222? Though they lost the match by 90 odd runs, they still believed in the victory till he got out. And who can forget SA against India when Steyn played out for a draw when they could have pushed for victory?
My point is, why do they need 6.5 sessions to bowl out England? If they cannot do it 5 sessions (I wanted India to bat till lunch today), then they may as well not do it in 6.5 sessions?
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Old 21st August 2018, 09:20   #10548
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We should be able to dismiss them in 5 sessions, with Bairstow having a fracture. However, with Ashwin not seeming to be fully fit, it could be a challenge. Maybe the original plan would be to tonk a few more in the evening and give 15 overs to them to bat. Plan B would be to continue till another hour on the 4th morning and try to get Anderson and Broad to bowl one more spell each. This would tire them out a little before the next 2 tests. But then their batsmen have a better chance of getting a sunny afternoon to get set.

Let us hope that we make quick inroads in the first session and make this talk irrelevant. Similar to what Pandya's 5 wicket haul did to our earlier discussions about his place in the side.
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Old 21st August 2018, 09:28   #10549
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My point is, why do they need 6.5 sessions to bowl out England? If they cannot do it 5 sessions (I wanted India to bat till lunch today), then they may as well not do it in 6.5 sessions?
Yes, but that's probably a safety net to tackle loss of play due to weather conditions.

As you mentioned, there may have been instances where some teams came quite close to winning, but statistics over almost 70 years show just 3 successful chases

If England do win this test (they'll win the series too), it would be one of greatest ever batting performances and will demolish Indian hopes in this tour going forward.
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Old 21st August 2018, 10:09   #10550
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India cannot and should not get complacent. They have the tendency to, especially when they are at the top. The bowlers have to press hard, and catches must be taken. A defensive field will allow the English batsmen to dig in and play with a dead bat.

An English win seems very unlikely. It would be quite a feat if they manage to score 400 at all. But a draw on account of rain, or perhaps grit from the English players, cannot be ruled out. An Indian win seems most probable. But I repeat, India cannot afford to be complacent.
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Old 21st August 2018, 13:15   #10551
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What's the news on Ashwin? He was visibly uncomfortable bowling yesterday, so will probably only be good for short spells, if he bowls at all.
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Old 21st August 2018, 13:58   #10552
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What's the news on Ashwin? He was visibly uncomfortable bowling yesterday, so will probably only be good for short spells, if he bowls at all.
Still a concern. I believe like first innings we should try all with our 4 pacemen till lunch. Then according to situation bring Ashwin in. No point stretching him out and risking further injury if our pacers can do the job.

Also, I am surprised how people are still saying 520 is less and England have a chance for even winning it
I hope you all remember we are talking about the same team who didn't even made 200 in first innings. Even if they do a better job I don't see them even making 300 unless we bowl absolutely rubbish. I believe match will be over by Tea itself if not sooner.

Last edited by harry10 : 21st August 2018 at 14:00.
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Old 21st August 2018, 14:17   #10553
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Also, I am surprised how people are still saying 520 is less and England have a chance for even winning it
I hope you all remember we are talking about the same team who didn't even made 200 in first innings. Even if they do a better job I don't see them even making 300 unless we bowl absolutely rubbish. I believe match will be over by Tea itself if not sooner.
Sometimes the pitch get's easier to bat on as the game progresses. The captain does not want to have the pressure of defending his score in such a situation. Put the score out of reach and then go all out attack. This is what most captains seem to be doing these days. Another strategy they like to work on, is to bat for long enough to wear out the pitch more and more. Make that last innings as tough for batting as possible.

Two or three big partnerships can tire out your bowlers. I remember a game between Aus and Pak, Hobart, 1999. Aus were chasing something like 370 in the 4th innings and were 5 down for 125 odd and staring at a certain defeat. In came Gilchrist and thrashed the bowling around they won easily.You can see from the scorecard that batting got easier as the game progressed.
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Old 21st August 2018, 14:17   #10554
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I saw Ishant bowl one over yesterday. He was FABULOUS !

There is no way that England can chase this.

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Two or three big partnerships can tire out your bowlers. I remember a game between Aus and Pak, Hobart, 1999. Aus were chasing something like 370 in the 4th innings and were 5 down for 125 odd and staring at a certain defeat. In came Gilchrist and thrashed the bowling around they won easily.You can see from the scorecard that batting got easier as the game progressed.
Had there been DRS in those days, Pakistan would have won

Last edited by Eddy : 21st August 2018 at 14:45.
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Old 21st August 2018, 14:31   #10555
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In came Gilchrist and thrashed the bowling around they won easily.You can see from the scorecard that batting got easier as the game progressed.
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Had there been DRS in those, Pakistan would have won
Yes, I remember watching live. I cannot remember though if it was Langer or Gilchrist, but was plumb out to Wasim Akram.

With neutral umpires though, it is possible that a couple of out decisions may be overturned against us.
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Old 21st August 2018, 14:45   #10556
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Not plumb, Langer actually nicked Akram to the keeper but was ruled not out. There was a very audible sound that Langer blamed on the bat handle clicking during his playing time.

After retirement, he admitted to having "smashed it, not edged it". DRS would have nailed it.
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Old 21st August 2018, 14:57   #10557
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I don't understand why we were so slow yesterday while batting. 300 runs in a day's play is easily gettable these days even without taking risks when the pitch is not unplayable. Had we not got so bogged down, we could have set them a 600 plus target easily.

Also I noticed Ashwin was asked to come out to bat when Shami got out. By that time Pandya had reached his 50 as well. Why was that needed when Ashwin is carrying an injury? Kohli should have just declared when Shami's wicket fell. Some of his tactics are just baffling.

Last edited by Oxy : 21st August 2018 at 15:01.
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Old 21st August 2018, 15:14   #10558
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I don't understand why we were so slow yesterday while batting. 300 runs in a day's play is easily gettable these days even without taking risks when the pitch is not unplayable. Had we not got so bogged down, we could have set them a 600 plus target easily.
I agree with you. They should have accelerated immediately after tea. In the recent times, Kohli seems to be slowing considerably when he is nearing the century. I am not saying this is wrong, but earlier he was not like that. And for this single reason, I use to hate Sachin in the later stage of his career, when he became too selfish when nearing a century. I just don't want Kohli to follow the same!

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Also I noticed Ashwin was asked to come out to bat when Shami got out. By that time Pandya had reached his 50 as well. Why was that needed when Ashwin is carrying an injury? Kohli should have just declared when Shami's wicket fell. Some of his tactics are just baffling.
From what i read, Kohli/Shastri may have '9 overs to bowl' in their mind and hence Ashwin was sent to bat to complete that over. If you ask me, Even I was baffled with that decision and did not find any logic with that decision!
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Old 21st August 2018, 15:16   #10559
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I hope Pandya is given the ball in the morning considering his current mental temperament. He could really get under the nose of the English batsmen.
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Old 21st August 2018, 15:24   #10560
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India cannot and should not get complacent. They have the tendency to, especially when they are at the top.
That is India's biggest worry right now! Last evening, few of the players like Kohli looked over-excited at the position the team was in. The pitch seems to have slowed down but there is still a bit in it if you bowl in good areas which is what our bowlers need to do. Hope rain stays away!
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