[PPS]

Most likely it will be a 3-1 result! The series is gone now. This Indian Team is only good enough to win 1 test in a series outside Asia.

Originally Posted by naveenvenkatesh

Ashwin is trying too many things here and not looking very ineffective.

He's under tremendous pressure, more so after part timer Moeen Ali got 5 wickets in the 1st innings. But atleast he did not concede too many runs.

Originally Posted by vibbs

The pitch looks quite ok to bat on.

True. But looking at the body language of our team in the last hour today, we have already lost the game in the mind. This total is beyond the underperforming batting unit.

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by PPS

He's under tremendous pressure, more so after part timer Moeen Ali got 5 wickets in the 1st innings. But atleast he did not concede too many runs.

Actually it's quite amusing. I didn't see the match, but Cricinfo repeatedly mentions this is a pitch that is drying up by the hour and yet Ashwin has not been able to make an impact when Moeen Ali took 5 wickets in the first innings and is expected to emulate that in the second as well.

What is it? Is our Frontline spinner so inadequate compared to Moeen who was till now not even the first choice spinner for England? Or is it the great skill of our batsmen to make ordinary bowlers look this good?

The way every one is talking about help to spinners, I thought India erred again with team composition, but looking at Ashwins score, I am confused again!

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by vibbs

....

What is it? Is our Frontline spinner so inadequate compared to Moeen who was till now not even the first choice spinner for England?....

Michael Holding made a really good point during one of the session breaks.

Ashwin has so many variations now, he doesn't seem to have a stock delivery anymore. It may work great in limited overs cricket where batsmen fall prey due to scoreboard pressure, but it can backfire in Test cricket because you've got no consistency in line/length and the batters aren't in a hurry.

Moeen, part-timer as he may be, was more disciplined, and will probably use the rough more effectively by just being patient and letting the pitch help him instead of forcing the issue trying too many things.

[samaspire]

Michael Holding did a great analysis of our bowlers. His observation that Bumrah's action would not let him have a long career should be taken seriously by the bowler. On the other hand, Shami's action, according to Holding, is so stress free on the body that he could go on bowling for another 25 years.

Can't the Indian team afford to hire him as a bowling consultant? Might be slightly better than Shastri

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by NPV

Let's see if this one will follow the historical trend or if it will be a a new record

*If England scores > 201, to win the match India will need to beat a 47 year old record.

Originally Posted by vibbs

Guys I don't see England setting us a Target of less than 250. However i still think India have the batting to get those runs. The pitch looks quite ok to bat on.

However positively we look at this picture, by historical trends or recent performance of the team in England and other locations; it's always a very tough fight to get to a score that's more than the average of the first three innings.

Kohli and co will have to pull a miracle to get to a win in this match.

[harry10]

Simple fact. Kohli ain't a good Fielding captain. His bowling changes and field placements are always questionable. Ashwin bowled crap. Still he kept bowling. No innovative idea to ask Shami get the bowl reverse.

I am hopeful till 250-270 chase. Just cos pitch has slowed down and is much easier to bat than previous pitches. But, we gave them extra runs for sure.

Though main fault is batting side. We should have a 150+ lead in first innings. Batted like morons and thanks to Puajra brilliance we got a lead which we didn't deserved.

[NPV]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

However positively we look at this picture, by historical trends or recent performance of the team in England and other locations; it's always a very tough fight to get to a score that's more than the average of the first three innings.

Kohli and co will have to pull a miracle to get to a win in this match.

I'm happy that you think I was looking at it positively

I did that a few times recently during the South Africa series and again during the first test (when the target was 190) and every time I was proved wrong by past statistics!

Not just India, most test teams now don't have the patience, grit and skill to chase 200+ in the 4th innings.

From recent times, I remember the first test of 2007 series in England when Dhoni remained not out 76 and chasing 400, India ended on 282/9 to save the test. However, bad light and weather conditions did help with reduced overs

[fiestarry]

Originally Posted by vibbs

Actually it's quite amusing. Ashwin has not been able to make an impact when Moeen Ali took 5 wickets. Or is it the great skill of our batsmen to make ordinary bowlers look this good?

The way every one is talking about help to spinners!

Very valid points. First of all, chasing down 300-350 should not be that big a deal given that the English fast bowlers were not very effective in the first innings.
Our batsmen simply need to put their heads down and play percentage cricket. Moeen Ali is by no stretch of imagination a match winning bowler unless there is a conspiracy.
Ashwin was among the top few bowlers and a certified terror until he crossed swords with Dhoni and was kept out of the bowling attack including the IPL. With the repeated inclusion of Chahal and Kuldeep, Ashwin is having to reinvent and do something extraordinary. Fiddling with his action and the loss of his stock ball is not helping.
He is also a good enough batsman to play up the order to protect a Pandya from self destruction.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by fiestarry

Ashwin was among the top few bowlers and a certified terror until

until he bowls outside the sub-continent?

[PPS]

Originally Posted by vibbs

Or is it the great skill of our batsmen to make ordinary bowlers look this good?

Spot on. Our team usually has this tendency!

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Michael Holding made a really good point during one of the session breaks.

Originally Posted by samaspire

Michael Holding did a great analysis of our bowlers.

Micheal Holding summed it up very well during the lunch break. He's got trolled on social media recently but he makes some very pertinent observations most times.

Originally Posted by harry10

Simple fact. Kohli ain't a good Fielding captain.

Kohli in the field is behaving as if India is 3-0 up in the series. Always in the batsman's ears saying something, setting field standing next to the stumps,etc.
I don't mind all this because he's that sort of an individual but rest of the team especially the batsman have to back that up with good performances.

[NPV]

India chasing 245 for a win are 11/1, is it going to be the same old story of a lost match yet again ? We will know as the day pans out.

[vibbs]

As we discuss, second wicket also lost.
I think I know where this is going.

[NPV]

I wonder what happened to K L Rahul's batting technique ? When he debuted, he was a patient batsman with good technique. Then he transformed himself into a T20 batsman and all of a sudden doesn't have the temperament for test cricket anymore, sad! I definitely see him losing his place to Prithvi Shaw in the next test.

Meanwhile, India survived 2 reviews and were lucky with the Kohli one.

Odds of a victory are obviously loaded very heavily against India, I think it will be done and dusted by end of play today or earlier (though the pitch doesn't seem to be doing anything sinister, the deep desire to win and application in the game is badly missing these days).

Wow, it was nice listening to the one and only Geoffrey Boycott on TV. Always calls a spade a spade and very honest feedback and great insights.

[suhaas307]

The score is 122/3. Kohli and Rahane are playing like their lives depend on this game.

123 runs needed and we have one session left in the day and three tomorrow. If they hang around, they could pull off something spectacular.

Fingers crossed.

EDIT: Kohli gone, and our chances as well most likely.

[vibbs]

There was a glimmer of hope. However Kohli has gone.
What are the chances now?

I would say, the same what they were when India started their innings.