[Eddy]

Originally Posted by Eddy

IMO, both Pant and Karun Nair will eventually make their way into the 11 in this series.

This may happen sooner than I expected or hoped - in the third match itself.

DK surely surely has to go. I think Pandya may still retain his place in the 11, given he was the only one who showed some fight. The others were so bad that they made him look ok.

[ToyotaFan]

Originally Posted by Eddy

This may happen sooner than I expected or hoped - in the third match itself.

DK surely surely has to go.

Did Dk drop any catches or its just that his technique is bad. Am asking because I did not see the match ball by ball but everyone here seems to be of the opinion that Dk has to be replaced. The fact is even pant is not a good keeper and is supposed to have an even inferior technique. Till Saha is injured India will have to make do with such make shift keepers. I believe India has persisted enough with Vijay Pujara and Rahane and unless they show some grit and determination that warrants their place overseas as test match specialist I see no reason in persisting with them.

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by Ragavsr

I don't understand all the hate for Pandya. He has performed better than all the top order batsmen barring Kohli.

Well statistics don't tell the complete picture. By those yardsticks even Ashwin should be played as a top order batsman.

If top order batsmen fail continuously they need to be dropped.
And this holds true for Vijay, Rahul and Rahane. Unfortunately we don't have replacements for all of them.

It is not hate for Pandya but I really don't think he has the talent to be a part of the team basis just his bowling or his batting. Which I believe is of paramount importance to being a test all rounder.

Yes you could have selected another top order batsman to acknowledge the short comings of the first test (ie batting failure) and still could have lost the match, but at least that would be a step in the right direction.

Anyways it's done. I guess in the next match one more out of KL Rahul, Vijay and Rahane will be shown the door. I think it will be Vijay. Rahane would be made to open with Rahul and Karun Nair brought to the middle order. Also perhaps DK will be replaced by Pant.

Pandya is there to stay. Kuldeep will probably sit out for another Pacer.

[Oxy]

These were Kohli's words after the match:

"We deserved to lose. For the first time in the last five tests we were outplayed".

Baffling attitude. If we were not outplayed then how did we lose in South Africa and how are we 0-2 down over here?

It's too late to mend anything with this bunch I am afraid. Kohli and cheerleader have destroyed this team. I see us losing to Pakistan in the World Cup next year as well.

[comfortablynumb]

Originally Posted by Oxy

These were Kohli's words after the match:

"We deserved to lose. For the first time in the last five tests we were outplayed"..

Well, at least they have learnt the art of understatement, if nothing else.

Outplayed? Decimated or obliterated is more like it.

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by Oxy

These were Kohli's words after the match:

"We deserved to lose. For the first time in the last five tests we were outplayed".

Baffling attitude. If we were not outplayed then how did we lose in South Africa and how are we 0-2 down over here?

It's too late to mend anything with this bunch I am afraid. Kohli and cheerleader have destroyed this team. I see us losing to Pakistan in the World Cup next year as well.

Unbelievable! A single bowling all rounder from the opposition out scored your entire team's score in both innings. You weren't even in the game!

The test team needs a complete overhaul. Maybe a 5-0 loss is what is required right now to bring about this realisation.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by ToyotaFan

Did Dk drop any catches or its just that his technique is bad. Am asking because I did not see the match ball by ball but everyone here seems to be of the opinion that Dk has to be replaced. The fact is even pant is not a good keeper and is supposed to have an even inferior technique. Till Saha is injured India will have to make do with such make shift keepers. I believe India has persisted enough with Vijay Pujara and Rahane and unless they show some grit and determination that warrants their place overseas as test match specialist I see no reason in persisting with them.

Dhoni has taught us that technique is not important as long as you get the job done. And that's where DK is failing. He has put down catches, dived in front of the slips causing a drop and failed to score. The fact that he does not keep regularly has come back to haunt him. Although I am no fan of Pant's batting, I don't see him fairing much worse than DK.

On this tour, the only other specialist middle order batsman in the squad is Karun Nair, who I guess will be given a game soon.

[Oxy]

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

Unbelievable! A single bowling all rounder from the opposition out scored your entire team's score in both innings. You weren't even in the game!

The test team needs a complete overhaul. Maybe a 5-0 loss is what is required right now to bring about this realisation.

How do you even overhaul?

Vijay and Rahane are finished at this level. Rahul, Dhawan and DK are T20/IPL hacks. Pandya is bits and pieces at best. Our two best bowlers, Bhuvneshwar and Bumrah, are injured. And what I hear now is that Kohli has a back injury as well.

There is absolutely no hope from anywhere. I think we need to bring Dravid and Ganguly out of retirement.

[Chetan_Rao]

Losing an overseas test after a sheer lack (or total absence) of preparation, then pointing out how close you got in a game or two as proof of how good you are, is the issue.

Someone vehemently denying they've got anything to fix, will never get around to fixing anything.

[Santoshbhat]

Originally Posted by Oxy

How do you even overhaul?

Vijay and Rahane are finished at this level. Rahul, Dhawan and DK are T20/IPL hacks. Pandya is bits and pieces at best. Our two best bowlers, Bhuvneshwar and Bumrah, are injured. And what I hear now is that Kohli has a back injury as well.

There is absolutely no hope from anywhere. I think we need to bring Dravid and Ganguly out of retirement.

T20 has destroyed the modern player's ability to play test cricket. I think it is safe to say that if T20 existed in the 90s, we would never have seen greats like Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman etc.. play for India. OK maybe Sachin would have made it!

The current bunch seems to have no hunger to succeed in Test Cricket. BCCI needs to look at someone who can be given the task bringing glory to the nation in the highest format. The callous attitude of the current skipper and some of the players is very disappointing to see.

[ninjatalli]

For someone who isn't following the series; I find the above set of comments a bit too over the edge. Ignore if I'm completely off the track

Are we playing miserably? Yes!
Are we a gone case (read: overhaul / gone case / decimated / too late)? HELL, NO!

Clearly we are having a bad series - reasons might be aplenty
- Over confidence and improper preparation for the English test conditions at an individual level and the team level too
- Bad selection of team players
- Not the ideal coach in the team (?)

But it's a good wake-up call. Even better if we do equally bad in the remaining 3 tests (which probably could happen). With less than a year to go, I'd rather have the situation that we do badly in this series and come well prepared next year than facing this situation next year.

And the problems aren't that big if you ask me - clearly we have over-estimated ourselves in away conditions and this is exactly what we need - a solid wake up call. We have two more away series after this; both in extremely tough conditions (Aus & NZ) where our track record is even more worse. This is exactly what we need for the year before the world cup.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

... this is exactly what we need - a solid wake up call....

Wasn't that what the SA tour was supposed to be? Rhetorical question of course, because India left that tour with the exact attitude I mentioned earlier: 'We got close, we're the best, nothing needs changing'. Cue a couple of meaningless one-sided victories and the IPL circus, and everything was forgiven and forgotten, until next time.

A wake up call means nothing if one keeps hitting the snooze button until the clock gives up and lets one be. What we need is a seat-belt reminder that refuses to stop until one buckles in, because this ride is fast running off the proverbial rails. Not for the first time, not for a new reason.

[selfdrive]

Just a few weeks ago, England were supposed to be the test side that was disintegrating. What better series to have for them than against a touring India?

Batsmen swishing away to glory against Anderson and Broad, bringing their confidence back. Our bowlers have anyway been known to resurrect careers. Take Saeed Anwar or Sanath Jayasuriya as examples.

The prime reason remains that we need a coach to challenge ideas by Kohli. A yes man/ cheerleader is what I see as the main culprit. It is not as if he can help someone with technical aspects either. He is not a workman coach who can tweak someone's game. Then why have him there?

If someone shows some fight and at least draw a match or two, they would redeem themselves somehow. Else, we are bracing ourselves for a long season of whitewashes. And who the hell schedules our series? A long home season followed by a long away one? Let us not kid ourselves, except for the first decade of the millennium, the Indian team would be one of the poorest performers playing away from home conditions.

[WindRide]

Don't worry too much people. We indians dont have long memories anyway. There is the next IPL for tamasha and all will be fine again. These super 'boys' will be our heroes soon enough.

Meanwhile since none of them seem to know how to hold a cricket bat, i look forward to a 5-0 whitewash.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

...Our bowlers have anyway been known to resurrect careers

How could you not mention the biggest one of them all, Matty Hayden?

who the hell schedules our series?

5 tests in 40 days after a busy home season was going to be a fitness challenge even with a fully-fit squad. But we can't ask internationals to sit out IPL, can we? How are the poor millionaires supposed to make their next million?

Lord knows BCCI has more than enough money to cover IPL earnings and ship the whole squad out to England an extra month in advance, if it came to that.