[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

The suspension has only about three inches of travel before it hits the bump stop. The vehicle is litterally resting on the bump stop most of the time.

2-3" of suspension travel close to the fulcrum point equates to a lot more travel at the wheel, doesn't it? I have indeed managed to bottom out the front suspension on a rare occasion, but that would apply to every car I've driven long-term anyway.

Originally Posted by sach.sri

IIRC - now-a-days gear oil in Scorps is synthetic by default? Synthetic gear oil does makes hell of a difference in cold winter mornings when you start driving

I don't think M&M recommends any fully synthetic oil.

Originally Posted by m_upreti

This time round I also decided to engage the services of my neighbourhood garage.

...and aren't you glad you did? You'd have been billed for a wiring harness change at the ASC! How did the wiring break, rat infestation?

[IndigoXLGrandDi]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

The problem is that Mahindra has standardized labour costs for the 10K service interval at about 2700 Rs and 5K service intervals at 700 Rs. So when you take it for 30K, 40K, 50K etc the labour cost is the same regardless of the work required. For example 40K service requries changing a whole lot of stuff including brake fluid, clutch fluid etc but labor is same. Guess Mahindra is trying to average out the cost for the owner and income for the dealer.

I was not billed unlike you were.

The Labour charges for separate jobs were mentioned separately on the bills in our case.

[M.Khanna]

Very Happy to know that HV kumars scoprio clutch issue is satisfactorily resloved now.

cheers

Khanna

[hvkumar]

An update on the problem with premature failure of the Clutch Release Bearing during my Ladakh trip last month.

As I mentioned, the matter escalated to M&M (through this thread in team-bhp & member m.khanna) and last week, M&M person inspected the part and decided to refund me the cost that I had incurred in changing the Clutch Plate assembly at Global Gallarie, Thane, before the Ladakh trip. They had no explanation to offer as to why the CRB took such a beating in such a short time (6000 kms) – clearly an instance of bad workmanship in fitting the CP assembly – but the matter is satisfactorily resolved for now.

Originally Posted by hvkumar

You may recall that I had changed the Clutch Plate assembly in my Scorpio last month in preparation for my Ladakh trip. I had also reported my apprehensions that the parts used by the M&M ASC Global Gallarie, Thane, were suspected to be non-genuine and based on my report here in this forum, a M&M person stepped in and assured me that the parts used were genuine.

Let me give you the shocking update now!

I completed my 24-day Ladakh trip 2 days ago. While returning from Ladakh, before Pathankot I realised that the engine was "racing" - meaning that the rev was going flat in the 3-5th gears momentarily. I called on M&M ASC Krishna Autoworld at Pathankot and based on their recommendation, the entire clytch plate assembly was dismounted and checked. The results were:

- Clutch Plate was OK, but apparently "sticky"

- Clutch Pressure Plate was OK, but there were unusual abrasion marks where the Clutch Release Bearing engaged

- But the Clutch Release Bearing showed unusual abrasion - in fact, there were deep score marks on the CRB, something which should not happen, it being a heat-treated component. Very clearly, the CRB metal was soft and was getting prematurely worn out. I was shocked to see it so - even the old CRB I had discarded last month after 1.35 lakh kms of use did not have a single score mark in it.

IN any case, the CRB is the hardest and longest-lasting component in the whole assembly and there is no way it should have got so deformed in under 8,000 kms! Please remember that my clutch plates have lasted very long - really very long - and in my 2.87 lakh kms of driving, I have changed the CP at 95,000, 140,000 and 275,000 kms.

This episode blows the lid off the rot at M&M ASCs - and maybe at M&M itself - of selling shoddy sub-standard non-spec components to unsuspecting customers. Had my Scorpio broken down in any of the high passes in Ladakh, you can imagine my plight. But luckily, the sturdy Scorpio made it well, my good luck.

[hvkumar]

Here is another problem which got solved today – that of starting trouble – which is because of air leak in the fuel intake system. I had to prime the filter every time I have to start since there is a massive air lock in either the fuel filter body or the feed pipes leading to the fuel pump (this applies only to the old engines, not the crde, which have a different configuration altogether). You unscrew the feed pipe screw and you can see air bubbles aplenty. I changed the copper washers for the feed pipes but that did not improve the situation. Next suspect is either the feed pipe itself (which was changed recently, may have a leak in it) or the filter body itself. Needless to say, the ASC guys throw all sorts of weird theories – “your fuel pump is defective”, etc.

Over a period of 10 days, the problem worsened and 2 days ago, when the fuel was in the reserve, the engine started spluttering and finally stalled in mid-traffic. Although there was fuel in the tank (as was evident when I unscrewed and primed the air screw in the fuel filter body), either flow pressure was inadequate or there was some vacuum build-up which meant I was not able to get enough fuel to the engine. After refilling some fuel, I managed to start the car with quite some difficulty - with priming for over 10 minutes - since it was obvious that the entire fuel lines were air-blocked.

The intriguing thing is when I did a free roll of the car (pushing, I mean), I started hearing a "khatak-khatak" sound which sounded ominously like the starter ring. I had replaced my starter ring along with the clutch plate in July before the Ladakh trip (the starter ring had chipped off in 2 places).

After consulting m.khanna and spike arrestor and several others, I decided that the fuel system needs to be flushed and bled. One theory was that since there is a small dent in my fuel tank (undoubtedly caused by hitting stones, underbody hits, etc during my recent Ladakh trip) may be causing either muck to collect or vacuum to build up restraining free fuel flow from tank itself to the fuel pump in the front.

What was done at the ASC today to solve the fuel supply problem?

Phase 1

1. Changed the fuel filter – it was in a bad shape after the Ladakh trip
2. Changed all the copper washers in the fuel filter body and the fuel connections
3. Removed the feed pipe from the filter to the fuel pump, found it had a iron washer, changed it to a copper washer (how did the iron washer get there? I had replaced this pipe sometime back.
4. Cleaned the aforesaid feed pipe with compressed air

Started the car, it started immediately. Restarted, no problems.

Phase 2

1. Diesel leak seen, ASC started blaming the fuel injection pump (FIP) – but that was not the reason
2. Close examination revealed that the leak was coming from the main feed pipe from the tank to the filter
3. The main fuel pipe was found to have brushed against another wire/ pipe and there was a worn our portion with a small hole
4. The main feed pipe was replaced. I had replaced this pipe sometime back at TVS, Trivandrum (Apr 2011) - it was obvious that they had fitted the pipe without bothering about routing it properly (do they know there are things like tie wires?)
5. Closer examination revealed that the fuel return pipe from the FIP to the tank also suffered from a similar abrasion – maybe the main and the return fuel pipes were rubbing each other – and that was also discarded and replaced. This is the first time I am changing this one.
6. After all this was done, fuel flow was immediate and engine fired up immediately

The FIP leak happens only when it overflows or is under pressure because of clogged injectors or some such thing. It leaked today too when priming was done. Once the pressure eased off, the leakage stopped immediately.

The problem looks like it is solved, but is still under watch. I have not touched either the fuel tank (which undoubtedly must be filled with muck of the last 6.5 years) or the FIP (which MICO BOSCH guys don’t recommend servicing unless the problem intensifies, and the problem of the leaking O Ring has been stable for the last 2.5 years now).

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

2-3" of suspension travel close to the fulcrum point equates to a lot more travel at the wheel, doesn't it?

Guess that would depend on how long your suspension A arms are. Your theory would apply to a suspension designed to soak up bumps, but definitely not the Scorpios. Because it is constantly hitting the bump stop.

[sumannandy]

Originally Posted by hvkumar

The FIP leak happens only when it overflows or is under pressure because of clogged injectors or some such thing. It leaked today too when priming was done. Once the pressure eased off, the leakage stopped immediately.

The problem looks like it is solved, but is still under watch. I have not touched either the fuel tank (which undoubtedly must be filled with muck of the last 6.5 years) or the FIP (which MICO BOSCH guys don’t recommend servicing unless the problem intensifies, and the problem of the leaking O Ring has been stable for the last 2.5 years now).

I had a similar problem in my safari, although it used to leak only when it was cold. It started leaking from the return pipe, and Concorde serviced fuel pump. But the problem came back within a couple of months. Tata Motors involved Bosch engineers, who recommended FIP head change. Finally the FIP head was replaced and the problem was solved.

[hvkumar]

Originally Posted by sumannandy

I had a similar problem in my safari, although it used to leak only when it was cold. It started leaking from the return pipe, and Concorde serviced fuel pump. But the problem came back within a couple of months. Tata Motors involved Bosch engineers, who recommended FIP head change. Finally the FIP head was replaced and the problem was solved.

In my case, it started leaking during my Bhutan trip in Apr 2009.
It steadily leaked - in minute quantities - for the next few months after that, but then I did a "flushing" with additives and that got rid of the problem. My guess is that the injectors were fouled up - and so was the return fuel line - and so the extra fuel was getting accumulated inside the FIP causing the weak O Ring to throw out fuel. The leak started with the present problem and became worse when I primed the pump to get rid of the air blocks; the FIP started dripping the extra fuel that was getting into the FIP but not into the engine (since vehicle was not starting).

I had taken the FIP to Bosch 2 years ago and they advised to let the pump be as it was since the leak was minor and there was no downgrading of engine performance, leaving only a fire hazard situation on hand. Since then, I have had them check prima facie twice and we have left the FIP untouched.

[m_upreti]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

...and aren't you glad you did? You'd have been billed for a wiring harness change at the ASC! How did the wiring break, rat infestation?

I am glad that I went to the garage instead of A.S.S. and saved some money. The wiring broke because of poor quality it seems, that particular wire was crumbling apart in hands (it was inside a maze of other wires encased in the outer cover). Thankfully the other wires seem fine enough.

[abacusv]

Originally Posted by agbenny

Friends,


2. Rear door is disconnected from the central locking. No warning in voice or with sirens. Resulted twice I ws running the vehicle with the read door opened dangerously. This is the 5th time in my 2 years, no permanent solution.

This is a design flaw in all of Scorpio. The rear door wont warn until it is open for about 40 degrees. The switch is too big, it wont get released until its quite open. Hope M&M does something about it.

[m_upreti]

I am seeing a strange issue for the last 2 days, on switching on the car(engine still off) the Tachometer needle is jumping wildly all over the place. Once the engine is started it works normally. Any ideas what could be the issue.

Originally Posted by abacusv

This is a design flaw in all of Scorpio. The rear door wont warn until it is open for about 40 degrees. The switch is too big, it wont get released until its quite open. Hope M&M does something about it.

Absolutely right, you would hardly come to know if the rear door is open, unless it is open wide. At one point of time I was told that the system does not cover the rear door , but I showed the A.S.S. guys how it worked.

[abacusv]

ABS Issue.

I'm not sure if this is an issue or it works that way. I thought ABS controls the skidding of the vehicle. But my Scorpio actually skids. I mean in situation where I applied a sudden brakes I get the screech noise and actually did skid.

How do I check if ABS is functioning well?

[m_upreti]

Originally Posted by abacusv

ABS Issue.

I'm not sure if this is an issue or it works that way. I thought ABS controls the skidding of the vehicle. But my Scorpio actually skids. I mean in situation where I applied a sudden brakes I get the screech noise and actually did skid.

How do I check if ABS is functioning well?

You might get some minor screeches here and there specially on lower speeds, try braking over a speed breaker at 40 you will hear it.

You can feel the brake pedal pulsating once the ABS kicks in.

[rjstyles69]

For those of you who are interested in knowing the relays and fuses in the Scorpio Mhawk .

[m_upreti]

Originally Posted by rjstyles69

For those of you who are interested in knowing the relays and fuses in the Scorpio Mhawk .

Thanks, by any chance do you have it for the engine bay fuse box also, the original print is all but washed away.