[satyabratpanda]

Thanks @newtonMeter. Is there any contact at Mandovi whom I should reach out to or you can refer? I shall do just that, and see if it resolves my problems.

[newtonMeter]

S dilip Rao
9686601490

He shall be able to help you for sure

[satyabratpanda]

Gents, coming back to this thread after nearly 10 months after a lot of futile efforts so far on getting my issues resolved - I have done everything suggested by you -(1) went to Mandovi Motors and met Dilip Rao, he got the throttle body cleaned and replaced plugs again, again some improvement for couple of weeks and back to same old status (2) April 2012, went to Pratham, got the injectors cleaned and plugs changed, some improvement, but back to square one after 3-4 weeks (3) July 2012 - got a paid service done in Bimal (Mahadevpura), again throttle body cleaned, and after 300 odd kms, back to old status (4) nov 2012 - got oil changed, engine decarbonized (20K) etc at Pratham, again back to same status in 3-4 weeks (5) Jan 2013 - went to Raj Motors, the guy said everything seems ok.
What I have seen is it looks like the throttle position sensor is suspicious - to me it looks like it is holding a lower rpm at operating temps after the initial warm up in the morning. No one is able to tell me a reason why the rpm dips sharply when clutch is released without accelerator being pressed, and pickup has become pathetic. Over the last 12 odd months the average FE I get has never crossed 9 kmpl (at one point in time it was down to 6.5 / 7 consistently using plain petrol (mostly Shell, but have changed to BP after 3 or 4 refills, couple of times to ensure the fuel isn't the problem. Additionally, no one seems able to tell me why the clutch shudder occurs or why the dashboard creaks so horribly even when crawling at 10kmph on a smooth surface. The different dealers all tell me, the clutch shudder is normal (but the clutch does not need to be replaced), the TPS seems ok from their diag console, and the creaking from the dashboard seems to be due to stretching of an elastic component - but no one is able to answer why these things were not happening when the vehicle was new. The throttle body has been cleaned thrice last year (which is surely abnormal?), and I have lost count of the number of times the ECU reset has been done. Would anyone on this forum know how I can ask Maruti to get the vehicle inspected by their technicians as against the dealer's staff - I still have a year of extended warranty left or suggest what other options I have to get these issues addressed?

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by satyabratpanda

Would anyone on this forum know how I can ask Maruti to get the vehicle inspected by their technicians as against the dealer's staff - I still have a year of extended warranty left or suggest what other options I have to get these issues addressed?

Every dealer workshop has MUL service rep for the area's contact details mentioned at reception. If not you can request the same, speak to him/her and fix an appointment for the day they visit nextt. Carry all the previous bills for the actual meeting.

[Aroy]

Frequent throttle body fouling and carbon deposition, points to the fact that the fuel is not burning fully. This can be due to various reasons
. You travel only short distance every time, so that the engine gets no time to heat up properly. This is so in my case. So every three months I take a ride of around 100km round trip on the highway. If you maintain 80-100km/h in this run, the engine rejuvenates itself (actually all the carbon deposits burn off). The FE increases, acceleration increases and the engine purrs like a contented cat.
. Plugs no firing properly. For this you can simply take the plugs out and check if they are sooty.
. The air filter is badly clogged - can also happen if water has gone into the filter. Happened to me when I got my K10 serviced in rainy season and the service personnel sprayed water while the engine was on and the bonnet open. The FE plummeted and the performance too a nose dive.
. The throttle body is defective (the sensor or the actuator). In that case you have to replace it. A rare possibility.

You may also have a faulty ECU. So get the program checked/reflashed.

[satyabratpanda]

Thanks @Aroy. I travel a minimum of 20 kms each day, approx 150 km through a week. And yes, I do ensure a long drive (100 km plus) once every 3 months - incidentally the pickup and FE remain bad on the long hauls as well - last couple of years I haven't got more than 11kmpl tops on a long journey. I get the air filter changed every year no matter the condition, and it is cleaned at least once a quarter - and can confirm no exposure to water for the filter - so can eliminate those from the things I can try out. Also, every time the plugs have been removed, they have looked healthy - dry light brown.
I have been trying to get the dealer to (a) get the fuel tank cleaned (they say it is not required) and (b) to replace the TPS / actuator - they say nothing in their diags show it to be required. Anyways, let me try again and revert. How to find out if the ECU is faulty and can the dealer get it re-flashed? Thanks.

[audioholic]

The throttle position sensor is located in the accelarator pedal itself, as it is drive by wire. Interesting thing is that the accelarator pedal was a suzuki part until the BS3 versions. From the VVT version, the part was locally manufactured. If you feel there is a problem with the accelarator pedal, check the throttle response in neutral. The pedal should respond to the slightest input and the car is sensitive with respect to the accelarator. Also, it is a reliable part as it is based upon two parallel circuits and the ECU will throw up an error if the pedal is faulty.

Regarding low idle speed, yes the car does idle a bit low once it is fully warmed up. Somewhere in the 600 RPM range without AC. How inconsistent is the idle? Mine fluctuates around 100 RPM once the compressor kicks or I switch on full electric load, and then re stabilises. Also, in crawling mode it takes time before the idle stabilises so if I let go of the clutch soon, it stalls if accelarator is not pressed. If clutch is left slowly, the idle speed increases. Also prolonged usage of half clutch spikes the engine speed to nearly 2k rpm.

Regarding vibrations during idle, it was rectified during the previous service without highlighting the point to them. The car had not been serviced for a year so I think they tightened some nuts and bolts here and there.

Have covered 21k kms, apart from first gear being jerky and sensitive, there is no judder. The clutch is slightly harder than my almost new wagonR. Steering is harder too, but I feel that is due to the fat rubber the car runs, and the crappy vectras.

Sorry, for I don't have a solution to the problems you face, but I gave a personal note of how things are with my car. Guess if you live close by, we can meet up and do some side by side comparison if you are interested. Though mine is not the VVT version, I have the parts catalogue and service manual of the car(both vvt and non vvt) which may be of some use.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by satyabratpanda

Thanks @Aroy. I travel a minimum of 20 kms each day, approx 150 km through a week. And yes, I do ensure a long drive (100 km plus) once every 3 months - incidentally the pickup and FE remain bad on the long hauls as well - last couple of years I haven't got more than 11kmpl tops on a long journey.

Hi, how do you change gears in your SX4 VVT, at what RPM & speed do you shift up from each gear? In the Swift VVT i've noticed that it returns better FE if the gears are shifted not too early.

Originally Posted by audioholic

The throttle position sensor is located in the accelarator pedal itself, as it is drive by wire. Interesting thing is that the accelarator pedal was a suzuki part until the BS3 versions.

Hi, the throttle position sensor is at the throttle body, the sensor in the pedal assembly is the Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor with two parallel circuits.

Originally Posted by audioholic

Though mine is not the VVT version, I have the parts catalogue and service manual of the car(both vvt and non vvt) which may be of some use.

Hi, from where did you source the service manual? I enquired with the local MGP store for the service manual of the new Swift but according to them its not a listed for sale item. The parts book though is available upon order. I'm looking to source the service manual for my Swift.

[audioholic]

Regarding the TPS, logically speaking, when it is the ECU that determines the opening of the throttle, what is the need of a separate sensor to determine how much throttle is open? Though I havent verified this, there is no TPS available as a part for the SX4. Neither is it mentioned in the service manual.

Regarding the manual, I procured both from the MGP outlet. Parts catalogue was available readily, but manual took some time. Costed 250 for the manual and 150 for the vvt supplement and another 150 for the parts catalogue.

[Sankar]

Based on the input from the pedal position sensor and the engine rpm and load the ECU determines the opening of the throttle butterfly. But without the TPS how will the ECU determine to what percentage the throttle butterfly has opened? Pedal position sensor will not give the actual position of the throttle plate.

The TPS of the drive-by-wire car might be integrated into the servomotor assembly, which drives the throttle, and maybe that's why you didn't find the TPS in the parts catalogue.

[Dr.Naren]

Hello team,
I am starting this thread to discuss various issues encountered by SX4 owners.
I own March 2011 SX4 diesel and have driven 95000 kms now. I will post the issues faced in chronological order

1.7000 kms: Intermittent Power loss
There was sudden loss of power and car wouldn't respond to accelerator input. Turbo was not switching on. Car gets back to normal after I restart the engine. Various sensors, fuel pump, EGR solenoid etc were changed and problem couldn't be sorted out. This issue was there till 85k kms and had not recurred in last 10k kms (touch wood)

2.40000 kms : Power loss above 3000 rpm
There was sudden drop in power and car used to go into limp mode with check engine light when I touch 3000 rpm. Error code was turbo high boost. Turbo was replaced under warranty which costs 40k

3.55000 kms : Gear box sound
I noticed mild humming sound from gearbox. I complained the same to MASS and they refused to accept the same. So we went for a drive during night and made them hear the sound. MASS tried changing Synchronisers and noise was still present. Ultimately Maruti engineers had to come from plant and replace it with a new gearbox under extended warranty(which costs 70k)

4.80000 kms :Low Oil pressure light
I saw low oil pressure warning and immediately took the car to MASS. Car had only 500 ML of oil. Since I was in thrissur, I had to visit BRD motors thrissur. SA said engine requires reboring and would cost 50k.i noticed something fishy here. I checked the bores and it was smooth. So I asked them to change only rings and engine head service which costed me 10k. I have driven 15k kms after the engine work and no issues. I suspect the culprit to be Petes remap. Because of remap, EGT would have gone high and seized the rings.

5.88000 kms : Brake fluid empty
When I switched on the car, clutch was dead. I called maruti on road service and they put brake fluid. Car was then taken to MASS and diagnosed as clutch cylinder leak. Clutch cylinder and release bearing were replaced (4k cost)
P. S I had met with a bad accident at 72500 kms and brake fluid sensor wiring was not connected post repairs. So I did not get low brake fluid warning light.Clutch and brake fluid is same for cars with Hydraulic clutch.

6.95000 kms Kat kat sound from front left side
Lower arm Bush is broken. Sad part is Maruti doesn't sell that particular Bush. So entire left lower arm has to be changed which costs 6k. I am planning to buy lower arm online from talbros which costs 2k

I have listed only major problems. There were other minor issues like glow plugs, rear right shock absorber which were replaced under warranty

[kpzen]

Dr Naren,
Amazing capacity to absorb so many issues in 5 years.

Were all periodic service done on time at MASS ?
When was it remapped ? Any other mods ?

[Dr.Naren]

Yes, I have done periodic service in MASS till 60k kms. After expiry of warranty, I used to change oil and filters at FNG. Petes remap was done at 75k kms and got it back to stock at around 89k kms. I got Wolf remap done last week. Car is much more driveable than Petes except for turbo kick.

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Hello team,
I am starting this thread to discuss various issues encountered by SX4 owners.
I own March 2011 SX4 diesel and have driven 95000 kms now.

Hi Dr. Naren,
Sorry to hear about the problems you faced.

Intermittent power loss: Did this have something to do with the fuel filter (due to poor fuel quality)? Were all the injectors working properly? Were the injectors getting the pulse properly from the ECU? At 7000 km, apart from fuel quality, I can only think of the electronics: the ECU software and the injector solenoids.

Power loss above 3000 rpm: You have mentioned that it was because of overboost. This can happen if the wastegate actuator does not function properly. The boost (inlet air pressure) created by the turbocharger is regulated by the wastegate actuator. Depending upon the engine rpm, the ECU computer uses barometric or MAP sensors, engine and transmission temperature sensors, knock sensors and intake pressure sensors to determine the amount of wastegate opening necessary to deliver the best boost levels. So, again the cause could be either electronic / software related. Completely stuck-up wastegate is unlikely IMO. Though MSIL replaced the turbo, the wastegate only is responsible for overboost.

Low pressure light: You have already stated that it could be due to remap.

The above problems are related to electronics and software. Had remap something to do with these problems? I understand that the remap replaces the default sofware in the ECU. BTW, was there any high pressure wash inside the engine compartment?

Humming sound from the gearbox: I wonder why MASS changed the synchro rings upon seeing the humming gearbox? Synchro rings needs to be changed when you have difficulty in shifting the gears (interfering sound) with good clutch. I will look at the bearings instead. Or with inadequate lubrication or degraded transmission oil, the gears too can produce humm. The transmission oil (75W90 for SX4) needs to be replaced every 20000 km as per the owner's manual. I am surprised how MSIL engineers agreed to change the gearbox in response to a humming sound. It could have been solved by chaging the bearings and/or gears. Are you an influential person?

Brake fluid empty: You or the MASS shall have checked this as a part of preventive maintenance and routine car care. Not an issue with the car.

If your service station cannot sort out the issue of intermittent power loss, if they do not monitor the brake fluid level and if they replace the synchro rings in response to a humming sound, better look for a more competent service station.

I hope that you will not face problems henceforth. So far, I did not come across reports of such problems by other SX4 DDIS owners.

Reading the above, I am really happy that I did not buy Diesel car (that too with a turbo) with complex electronics for my average running of 12000 - 15000 km per year. Also, it is better not to tweak with the ECU software.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

Hi Dr. Naren,
Sorry to hear about the problems you faced.

Intermittent power loss: Did this have something to do with the fuel filter (due to poor fuel quality)? Were all the injectors working properly? Were the injectors getting the pulse properly from the ECU? At 7000 km, apart from fuel quality, I can only think of the electronics: the ECU software and the injector solenoids.

Power loss above 3000 rpm: You have mentioned that it was because of overboost. This can happen if the wastegate actuator does not function properly. The boost (inlet air pressure) created by the turbocharger is regulated by the wastegate actuator. Depending upon the engine rpm, the ECU computer uses barometric or MAP sensors, engine and transmission temperature sensors, knock sensors and intake pressure sensors to determine the amount of wastegate opening necessary to deliver the best boost levels. So, again the cause could be either electronic / software related. Completely stuck-up wastegate is unlikely IMO. Though MSIL replaced the turbo, the wastegate only is responsible for overboost.

Low pressure light: You have already stated that it could be due to remap.

The above problems are related to electronics and software. Had remap something to do with these problems? I understand that the remap replaces the default sofware in the ECU. BTW, was there any high pressure wash inside the engine compartment?

Humming sound from the gearbox: I wonder why MASS changed the synchro rings upon seeing the humming gearbox? Synchro rings needs to be changed when you have difficulty in shifting the gears (interfering sound) with good clutch. I will look at the bearings instead. Or with inadequate lubrication or degraded transmission oil, the gears too can produce humm. The transmission oil (75W90 for SX4) needs to be replaced every 20000 km as per the owner's manual. I am surprised how MSIL engineers agreed to change the gearbox in response to a humming sound. It could have been solved by chaging the bearings and/or gears. Are you an influential person?

Brake fluid empty: You or the MASS shall have checked this as a part of preventive maintenance and routine car care. Not an issue with the car.

If your service station cannot sort out the issue of intermittent power loss, if they do not monitor the brake fluid level and if they replace the synchro rings in response to a humming sound, better look for a more competent service station.

I hope that you will not face problems henceforth. So far, I did not come across reports of such problems by other SX4 DDIS owners.

Reading the above, I am really happy that I did not buy Diesel car (that too with a turbo) with complex electronics for my average running of 12000 - 15000 km per year. Also, it is better not to tweak with the ECU software.

Intermittent power loss could never be diagnosed. I have heard it's a common complaint in 1.3 multijet engines with VGT. Fiat recommends EGR solenoid replacement, though my sources in Fiat say that they switch off EGR which is actually illegal.

Power loss above 3000 rpm was sorted out with new turbocharger.

I think MASS did try changing gears and bearings. They had dismantled my gearbox and did trial and error method to fix the sound. It was a very mild sound which could be hardly noticed. I am not all an influential person. Usually I have good rapport with service guys.

Brake fluid was empty due to clutch cylinder leak. MASS centre in mangalore forgot to connect brake fluid sensor wire post my accident repairs. Thankfully it did not happen on my drive.

My car was serviced in different MASS at Mangalore, Kasaragod, Mysore and Thrissur.