Alto and the AirCon

mithun · 29th March 2007, 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedzak

1. You can try realigning the clutch. It does have an effect.
2. Gearbox realignment.
3. Bigger/better air filter.
4. Freeflow. Preferably with custom manifold and headers.
5. Switch off the AC!!
6. Get a Baleno!!!! Believe me, it doesn't jerk with AC on.

By realignment(for both the gearbox & clutch), did you meant to re-configure the entire gearbox & clutch assembly(from scratch) and replace the worn out/defective parts ?

OR

Any other related work ?

abhibh · 29th March 2007, 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by mithun

What is Triphase ? Could you please elaborate ?

Check it here mithun. It's just like Pete's Tuning Box for Diesel but triphase is for petrol cars (its cheaper too than pete's kit). You can check reviews about it here:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/access...e-reports.html

mail4ajo · 29th March 2007, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by mail4ajo

I have this slight jerk issue on my car too. Pain in the city traffic. Living with it now. I notice that this disappears when I drive on LPG. Has this got to do something with the fuel?

Got the car today back from service. The technician said that the jerk was due to carbon deposits in the throttle body caused by my driving on LPG. I tried to reason with him saying that LPG does produce little or no carbon deposits. I also told him that the issue was there from day 1.

The jerking has reduced a bit. But it still remains. The technician was not competent to answer any further questions. I guess we have to live with this. Let me know if someone finds a solution.

Dhar's · 29th March 2007, 18:07

I too had issues with clutch jerking in my 2005 Alto Lxi during bumper to bumper traffic with A/C on and slight engine knocking during slow speeds. This doesnt happen during same situations with A/C off. I didnt complain to the dealer so far and now all three services are over. After the initial experiences, i think i adjusted to the driving style automatically so that i dont experience it anymore. Also switching to 93 Petrol seems to reduce the knocking further. After the third service when the injector nozzles were cleaned, i switched to 93 petrol and i think there was some improvement.

Vid6639 · 19th April 2007, 21:13

What are the components in the clutch assembly. I'm guessing it's one of these which is causing the jerk which gets exaggerated when subjected to the AC load.

The clutch plate has just been replaced and there is a pressure plate i guess. what exactly can go wrong. I'm gonna ask MUL change the entire assembly so i need to know what i should tell them to change. till now only the clutch plate has been changed.

SLK · 19th April 2007, 21:26

The clutch plate, pressure plate and the clutch release bearing. And ask for the parts back....

Though if MUL changed your clutch the last time..... its hard to believe that they only changed the clutch plate!

anky · 20th April 2007, 17:43

Yuo guys are right the alto lxi does mildly jerk when ac cuts in .Also unlike others I gae an average of 13.5 in city driving in bombay.I have an alto for the past 2.5 years and i can suerly say that the build quality is steadily decreasing.I had an 800 dx actg 96 model for 8 years with excellent build quality. Also there is cost cutting in the alto ed in the dickey there were 2 plastic panels on each side where you could mount the parcel shelf . They are absent on the 06 alto instead they have stuck a carpet on both corners. The new alto completely deviates from the original european LHD design.With cost cutting very evident.No B and C pillar plastic covers to hide th seat belt straps???Also I feel less sound cutting material in the engine bay.To accomodate euro 3 features into the same costing they have cut corners elsewhere.

Technocrat · 18th May 2007, 17:05

Got myself a K&N Replacemnet filter, the jerks are less felt now

Vid6639 · 18th May 2007, 18:04

Am planning on a ECU swap and see how it goes with the jerk. Will swap the ecu with a car which doesnt jerk. Mostly my friends car.

lets see how it goes.

mail4ajo · 18th May 2007, 18:49

I am trying one last time with Maruti service to do away with this thing. I spoke to the Head service manager in Delhi and he arranged for my car to be inspected at popular service in chennai on Monday.

I met a person in US who is a Ford and Lincoln engineer. After I related this issue, he suggested that the reason may be ignition timing or idle setting. The compression of the engine is reduced when the AC is on. I do not have the jerking in LPG mode. The car is very smooth on LPG.

Guys, can you PM me your engine, chassis number and contact details just to prove that cars without LPG also has the problem? I know the LPG conversion will be the first thing these guys are going to say while inspecting. Actually LPG has reduced the problem.

elf · 18th May 2007, 21:21

Sorry man. Wifey's Alto is unavailable for 12 days. Shall PM you the details post that if you wish.

mail4ajo · 22nd May 2007, 22:12

Some updates:

Went for a full checkup at Popular service based on request from Chennai Maruti regional office. Asked them to use Tech2 and check values. They were unwilling to use the Tech2, for an unknown reason. I insisted and found all values to be perfect. We drove on LPG and found the jerking was absent.

They cleaned the throttle body. They disconnected all LPG equipments like gas mixer, emulator etc on my request and test drove. No difference. I asked the ECU to be reset. No difference. Spent 4 hours suggesting different options. I was amazed that they were taking cues from a layman like me to fix the issue. Left the car with them for 2 whole days. I test drove another 2 Altos which was running perfect.

They lossened the clutch and the car starting jerking worse than before. 4-5 voilent jerks at a time.

Have to go back tomorrow for one last chance to set it right. They suspect the throttle body to be the issue and will source another piece and try again. Does anyone have better luck? After this last chance, I think I will have to live with this......

Vid6639 · 22nd May 2007, 22:35

I'm also thinking that i will have to live with it. I drove another alto which I felt was more smoother and did not jerk like mine. But after driving it for a long time found it to be the same. The clutch setting is not as same as mine. it also jerks but not as much. But the jerk is definitely there.

Also I read a review of ACI old issue and even they mentioned the jerk when you back of the gas.

The culprit is the IAC valve the fuel cut off when you back off the gas is very sharp resulting in the jerk. This results in higher mileage but with a very perceptible jerk.

So the problem is not with the car. Thats a relief but at the same time sad.

mail4ajo · 22nd May 2007, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid6639

The culprit is the IAC valve

I need to research more on this. Based on on your earlier post, I asked them about the Idle air control. They plainly mentioned its fine. Is there a way to adjust this?

mail4ajo · 22nd May 2007, 23:01

If the fault is with the IAC, would the idling keep varing? I saw on the tech2, the idling is at 900+-100RPM. When the AC is switched on, it goes up. Maybe the RPM is not high enough with AC. What the right RPM setting with AC on?

29th March 2007, 18:07	#49
Dhar's BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: QLN/TRV/DXB Posts: 420 Thanked: 627 Times View My Garage	I too had issues with clutch jerking in my 2005 Alto Lxi during bumper to bumper traffic with A/C on and slight engine knocking during slow speeds. This doesnt happen during same situations with A/C off. I didnt complain to the dealer so far and now all three services are over. After the initial experiences, i think i adjusted to the driving style automatically so that i dont experience it anymore. Also switching to 93 Petrol seems to reduce the knocking further. After the third service when the injector nozzles were cleaned, i switched to 93 petrol and i think there was some improvement.
	() Thanks

19th April 2007, 21:13	#50
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,480 Times View My Garage	What are the components in the clutch assembly. I'm guessing it's one of these which is causing the jerk which gets exaggerated when subjected to the AC load. The clutch plate has just been replaced and there is a pressure plate i guess. what exactly can go wrong. I'm gonna ask MUL change the entire assembly so i need to know what i should tell them to change. till now only the clutch plate has been changed.
	() Thanks

19th April 2007, 21:26	#51
SLK Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DL XX XX XXXX Posts: 1,634 Thanked: 1,011 Times	The clutch plate, pressure plate and the clutch release bearing. And ask for the parts back.... Though if MUL changed your clutch the last time..... its hard to believe that they only changed the clutch plate! Last edited by SLK : 19th April 2007 at 21:27.
	() Thanks

20th April 2007, 17:43	#52
anky BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 402 Thanked: 115 Times	Same Issues Yuo guys are right the alto lxi does mildly jerk when ac cuts in .Also unlike others I gae an average of 13.5 in city driving in bombay.I have an alto for the past 2.5 years and i can suerly say that the build quality is steadily decreasing.I had an 800 dx actg 96 model for 8 years with excellent build quality. Also there is cost cutting in the alto ed in the dickey there were 2 plastic panels on each side where you could mount the parcel shelf . They are absent on the 06 alto instead they have stuck a carpet on both corners. The new alto completely deviates from the original european LHD design.With cost cutting very evident.No B and C pillar plastic covers to hide th seat belt straps???Also I feel less sound cutting material in the engine bay.To accomodate euro 3 features into the same costing they have cut corners elsewhere.
	() Thanks

18th May 2007, 17:05	#53
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	Got myself a K&N Replacemnet filter, the jerks are less felt now
	() Thanks

18th May 2007, 18:04	#54
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,480 Times View My Garage	Am planning on a ECU swap and see how it goes with the jerk. Will swap the ecu with a car which doesnt jerk. Mostly my friends car. lets see how it goes.
	() Thanks

18th May 2007, 18:49	#55
mail4ajo Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 1,957 Thanked: 331 Times View My Garage	I am trying one last time with Maruti service to do away with this thing. I spoke to the Head service manager in Delhi and he arranged for my car to be inspected at popular service in chennai on Monday. I met a person in US who is a Ford and Lincoln engineer. After I related this issue, he suggested that the reason may be ignition timing or idle setting. The compression of the engine is reduced when the AC is on. I do not have the jerking in LPG mode. The car is very smooth on LPG. Guys, can you PM me your engine, chassis number and contact details just to prove that cars without LPG also has the problem? I know the LPG conversion will be the first thing these guys are going to say while inspecting. Actually LPG has reduced the problem.
	() Thanks

18th May 2007, 21:21	#56
elf BANNED Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,039 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	Sorry man. Wifey's Alto is unavailable for 12 days. Shall PM you the details post that if you wish.
	() Thanks

22nd May 2007, 22:12	#57
mail4ajo Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 1,957 Thanked: 331 Times View My Garage	Some updates: Went for a full checkup at Popular service based on request from Chennai Maruti regional office. Asked them to use Tech2 and check values. They were unwilling to use the Tech2, for an unknown reason. I insisted and found all values to be perfect. We drove on LPG and found the jerking was absent. They cleaned the throttle body. They disconnected all LPG equipments like gas mixer, emulator etc on my request and test drove. No difference. I asked the ECU to be reset. No difference. Spent 4 hours suggesting different options. I was amazed that they were taking cues from a layman like me to fix the issue. Left the car with them for 2 whole days. I test drove another 2 Altos which was running perfect. They lossened the clutch and the car starting jerking worse than before. 4-5 voilent jerks at a time. Have to go back tomorrow for one last chance to set it right. They suspect the throttle body to be the issue and will source another piece and try again. Does anyone have better luck? After this last chance, I think I will have to live with this...... Last edited by mail4ajo : 22nd May 2007 at 22:15.
	() Thanks

22nd May 2007, 22:35	#58
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,480 Times View My Garage	I'm also thinking that i will have to live with it. I drove another alto which I felt was more smoother and did not jerk like mine. But after driving it for a long time found it to be the same. The clutch setting is not as same as mine. it also jerks but not as much. But the jerk is definitely there. Also I read a review of ACI old issue and even they mentioned the jerk when you back of the gas. The culprit is the IAC valve the fuel cut off when you back off the gas is very sharp resulting in the jerk. This results in higher mileage but with a very perceptible jerk. So the problem is not with the car. Thats a relief but at the same time sad.
	() Thanks

22nd May 2007, 23:01	#60
mail4ajo Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 1,957 Thanked: 331 Times View My Garage	If the fault is with the IAC, would the idling keep varing? I saw on the tech2, the idling is at 900+-100RPM. When the AC is switched on, it goes up. Maybe the RPM is not high enough with AC. What the right RPM setting with AC on?
	() Thanks