Alto and the AirCon

gpa · 27th May 2009, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gansan

My question is whether this jerking is serious enough to take the grin off one's face? Both of you are in cool Bangalore and will not need to use the A/c for most of the months in a year. It will be the other way around here in Chennai.

Also, is it true Maruti will bring a Euro iv compliant 1000 cc Alto, with the A-Star engine perhaps?

Well, simply put-No. It will not take the grin off your face. Like I said, I drive the Santro, Alto and A-Star as well and the slight jerk is felt in all 3 cars. The Alto's compressor will definitely tame the Chennai heat.

Once you get used to driving with the engine being in the powerband, you will get used to the linear power delivery. The jerking will be present but will be as with any other small car.

As for your other query, no I don't think MUL will plonk the A-Star's engine into the current Alto as they have positioned the A-Star differently. Moreover, the A-Star was the Alto's replacement in most markets sans India. But, yes, MUL will be releasing a Euro IV (BS-IV) compliant Alto in 2010/end 2009? in major metros.

Cheers,
gpa

Gansan · 27th May 2009, 21:32

Thanks for the info. Alto is definitely in consideration, along with Spark PS and a sparingly used (< 5000 KM) Aug'06 model Santro XO. Talks are on with the Santro owner and the price he is currently demanding is very close to the OTR price of a new Alto LXi. I am trying to bring it down to more reasonable levels as he needs me to pay the full amount to him first, with which he will settle the bank loan and clear the car's documents. I think he is unable to take it to a reputed used car dealer for this very reason.

If no middle ground is reached, I will go for a new Alto LXi / Spark PS.

Vid6639 · 27th May 2009, 23:10

Well the Alto is not Euro 4 compliant so MUL will have to bring some changes for 2010. It could be as insider info says in another thread that they plonk the A-star engine or a ECU remap with some changes to exhaust.

I use the car with ac on 95% of the time.

msaudf · 28th May 2009, 00:48

well most modern cars that come with factory fitted air-cons have a little device that increases the idle rpm of the engine when te compressor switches ON. normal idle is 700 - 750 rpm, but when you switch on the A/C it lowers about a 100 rpm, this device keeps the engine from not doing so but it should raise the idle rpm to about 750 - 800 rpm. get this device fitted if its not there in your car. well if its there get it fine tuned. i had the same jerk thingi in my car as well and i got it sorted with this device activated. so yeah, give it a lil check and let us know. hope i helped!!

Vid6639 · 28th May 2009, 01:52

Well that small device is the idle controller valve. Most of the cars including the alto have it and this is ecu controlled when the ac goes on.

The problem of jerking is not when idling but when driving when you are coasting in a gear without pressing accelerator.

amit_mechengg · 28th May 2009, 09:59

well to give a clear picture and a total unbiased opinion about alto, even if i am a alto owner is that, YES the car jerks with the AC on. and this jerk is peculiar to the 3 pot alto. its not so strong in other 4 cylinder cars.
the 110 cc AC fitted on a 800 cc motors with heavy body of alto takes a toll on the poor engine and rips it off. this kind of jerk is not so much evident on wagon R or santro or even the maruti 800.

but you get used to it after driving a while. other means to reduce this is go for a Free Flow air filter and a FFE. i have noticed that things have become a lot smoother on my alto after i got the low and mid range tuned FFE done.

but if you want a fun to drive car dont go for alto. this AC issues bugs a lot. whenever you want to overtake fast or accelerate quicker in the traffic and if the AC kicks in, its a total mess.

SLK · 28th May 2009, 11:36

Have we not lost the whole point of the discussion here?

The 'Jerk' in question is the 'Jerk' while decelerating and not accelerating.

The 'Jerk' while acceleraing is normal and not bugging. It is absolutely acceptable and understandable considering the total of 47bhp the engine produces.

The problem is - The original topic

Quote:

Originally Posted by ess_a

hi guys.. i have an alto lx... one thing that has been really troubling me this summer is its ride with the AC on... mostly in the 2nd (sometimes even in the 3rd) gear, when i brake hard (without pressing the clutch), the car gives a big jolt.. even a sudden release of accelerator jerks the car..

its not that the car speed falls below the min. kph for that particular gear... even braking from 25kph to say 15 kph in the 2nd gear, the car gives a jolt.. but if i switch off the AC, the problem disappears completely... Also if i simultaneously press the clutch while braking (with AC on), there is NO jolt..

the maruti service station guy said that this happens with almost all cars due to a sudden decrease in RPM.. but i'm not too convinced as i recently drove the Xeta with NO such problem...
Please help me out... coz summers are at their peak and AC is a necessity... but to avoid the jerks i dont want to unnecessarily wear out my clutch plates..
thanx

Not every style of driver feels this jerk, normally only with the light footed ones.

mithun · 28th May 2009, 12:54

My 2001 model Alto is not having any jerks when AC is used. I think it's limited to BS III models only.

Gansan · 28th May 2009, 22:12

Visited one more Maruti dealer (Kapico) today. They had a demo Alto which I test drove. I did not notice any obvious jerking when I eased off on the accelerator. After reading this thread, I was deliberately looking for it, so had the A/c at near maximum power and 3 adults + 1 kid on board. The TD was on Poonamalee high road and I could of course not drive fast in the peak hour traffic. Sedate driving only with a couple of short bursts at 50 - 60 KPH. Is it noticed only beyond a particular speed?

SLK · 29th May 2009, 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gansan

I did not notice any obvious jerking when I eased off on the accelerator..........
Is it noticed only beyond a particular speed?

No, forget about it. If there is no jerk, don't go looking for it.

Its normally at very low speeds, below 25. And only in 1st and 2nd gears, but nothing you can't avoid.

amit_mechengg · 29th May 2009, 10:26

you wont face the jerk everytime. its only when at slow speeds you suddenly pull your leg of the accelerator in 1st or 2nd gear and simultaneously when the compressor is kicking in. it happens say 60% of the cases with AC on.

Gansan · 29th May 2009, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

its only when at slow speeds you suddenly pull your leg of the accelerator in 1st or 2nd gear and simultaneously when the compressor is kicking in.

Well, the compressor will hardly ever "kick out" in the first place in Chennai heat, so it may never be obvious here.

BTW did any one from Chennai ever feel this issue?

Gansan · 18th June 2009, 22:11

Hi everyone,
Glad to join the Alto club! I have booked a Caribbean Blue Alto LXi today. Car will be delivered early next week. Price OTR is Rs 297583 (after Rs 15000 cash discount). Free items are 3M under body coating, leather steering cover, perfume and third year extended warranty. I am paying Rs 4725 for left side mirror, sun film,car cover and side beading. I will opt for the fourth year extended warranty also and this may cost about Rs 1600. I will do the Stereo and seat covers outside. My total budget for these two is Rs 15000 and suggestions are welcome.

The dealer is offering power windows (MGP with one year warranty). It costs Rs 8000 for front only and Rs 16000 for all four windows. I wish to install PW for front windows as I feel it will enable quick switch off of AC / roll down of windows and vice versa in heavy traffic conditions. What do you guys think?

BTW I have requested them to give me a car fitted with Bridgestone/Apollo/MRF tyres and avoid JK tyres as far as possible. I remember reading in some discussion that JK tyres wear out very fast.

aditya101 · 18th June 2009, 22:20

My Alto jerks when I am shifting down to 20 Kmph into 2nd gear. The problem is that if go at this speed at 3rd the car shakes like hell when I want to increase the speed while still in 3rd

NetfreakBombay · 18th June 2009, 22:48

^^^

Blip (Press it and release it quickly) the accelerator just before shifting down to 2nd gear. This will avoid the jerk.

27th May 2009, 21:32	#107
Gansan Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 4,563 Thanked: 5,676 Times	Thanks for the info. Alto is definitely in consideration, along with Spark PS and a sparingly used (< 5000 KM) Aug'06 model Santro XO. Talks are on with the Santro owner and the price he is currently demanding is very close to the OTR price of a new Alto LXi. I am trying to bring it down to more reasonable levels as he needs me to pay the full amount to him first, with which he will settle the bank loan and clear the car's documents. I think he is unable to take it to a reputed used car dealer for this very reason. If no middle ground is reached, I will go for a new Alto LXi / Spark PS.
	() Thanks

27th May 2009, 23:10	#108
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,757 Thanked: 43,812 Times View My Garage	Well the Alto is not Euro 4 compliant so MUL will have to bring some changes for 2010. It could be as insider info says in another thread that they plonk the A-star engine or a ECU remap with some changes to exhaust. I use the car with ac on 95% of the time.
	() Thanks

28th May 2009, 00:48	#109
msaudf BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Cochin Posts: 269 Thanked: 164 Times	well most modern cars that come with factory fitted air-cons have a little device that increases the idle rpm of the engine when te compressor switches ON. normal idle is 700 - 750 rpm, but when you switch on the A/C it lowers about a 100 rpm, this device keeps the engine from not doing so but it should raise the idle rpm to about 750 - 800 rpm. get this device fitted if its not there in your car. well if its there get it fine tuned. i had the same jerk thingi in my car as well and i got it sorted with this device activated. so yeah, give it a lil check and let us know. hope i helped!!
	() Thanks

28th May 2009, 01:52	#110
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,757 Thanked: 43,812 Times View My Garage	Well that small device is the idle controller valve. Most of the cars including the alto have it and this is ecu controlled when the ac goes on. The problem of jerking is not when idling but when driving when you are coasting in a gear without pressing accelerator.
	() Thanks

28th May 2009, 09:59	#111
amit_mechengg Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 2,488 Thanked: 2,256 Times View My Garage	well to give a clear picture and a total unbiased opinion about alto, even if i am a alto owner is that, YES the car jerks with the AC on. and this jerk is peculiar to the 3 pot alto. its not so strong in other 4 cylinder cars. the 110 cc AC fitted on a 800 cc motors with heavy body of alto takes a toll on the poor engine and rips it off. this kind of jerk is not so much evident on wagon R or santro or even the maruti 800. but you get used to it after driving a while. other means to reduce this is go for a Free Flow air filter and a FFE. i have noticed that things have become a lot smoother on my alto after i got the low and mid range tuned FFE done. but if you want a fun to drive car dont go for alto. this AC issues bugs a lot. whenever you want to overtake fast or accelerate quicker in the traffic and if the AC kicks in, its a total mess.
	() Thanks

28th May 2009, 12:54	#113
mithun BANNED Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cochin Posts: 2,195 Thanked: 268 Times	My 2001 model Alto is not having any jerks when AC is used. I think it's limited to BS III models only.
	() Thanks

28th May 2009, 22:12	#114
Gansan Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 4,563 Thanked: 5,676 Times	Visited one more Maruti dealer (Kapico) today. They had a demo Alto which I test drove. I did not notice any obvious jerking when I eased off on the accelerator. After reading this thread, I was deliberately looking for it, so had the A/c at near maximum power and 3 adults + 1 kid on board. The TD was on Poonamalee high road and I could of course not drive fast in the peak hour traffic. Sedate driving only with a couple of short bursts at 50 - 60 KPH. Is it noticed only beyond a particular speed?
	() Thanks

29th May 2009, 10:26	#116
amit_mechengg Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 2,488 Thanked: 2,256 Times View My Garage	you wont face the jerk everytime. its only when at slow speeds you suddenly pull your leg of the accelerator in 1st or 2nd gear and simultaneously when the compressor is kicking in. it happens say 60% of the cases with AC on.
	() Thanks

18th June 2009, 22:11	#118
Gansan Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 4,563 Thanked: 5,676 Times	Hi everyone, Glad to join the Alto club! I have booked a Caribbean Blue Alto LXi today. Car will be delivered early next week. Price OTR is Rs 297583 (after Rs 15000 cash discount). Free items are 3M under body coating, leather steering cover, perfume and third year extended warranty. I am paying Rs 4725 for left side mirror, sun film,car cover and side beading. I will opt for the fourth year extended warranty also and this may cost about Rs 1600. I will do the Stereo and seat covers outside. My total budget for these two is Rs 15000 and suggestions are welcome. The dealer is offering power windows (MGP with one year warranty). It costs Rs 8000 for front only and Rs 16000 for all four windows. I wish to install PW for front windows as I feel it will enable quick switch off of AC / roll down of windows and vice versa in heavy traffic conditions. What do you guys think? BTW I have requested them to give me a car fitted with Bridgestone/Apollo/MRF tyres and avoid JK tyres as far as possible. I remember reading in some discussion that JK tyres wear out very fast.
	() Thanks

18th June 2009, 22:20	#119
aditya101 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Delhi Posts: 275 Thanked: 99 Times View My Garage	My Alto jerks when I am shifting down to 20 Kmph into 2nd gear. The problem is that if go at this speed at 3rd the car shakes like hell when I want to increase the speed while still in 3rd Last edited by aditya101 : 18th June 2009 at 22:22.
	() Thanks

18th June 2009, 22:48	#120
NetfreakBombay Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,478 Thanked: 1,074 Times	^^^ Blip (Press it and release it quickly) the accelerator just before shifting down to 2nd gear. This will avoid the jerk.
	() Thanks