[RDS]

Originally Posted by rayjaycleoful

Don't know why but feel like there is a positive improvement in road noise and ride quality, everything else constant - is this true or this my mind playing games :-)

I have been using Nitrogen for years now with occasional air fill ups when Nitrogen is not available.

I usually do 4-6 long trips every year. Nitrogen has a positive impact - heats less, and better ride.

Tyres have a bigger role to play though in all attributes of the ride - be it noise, ride, safety.

However, Nitrogen does play a role. A good TPMS will always confirm lesser temperature change when tyre is filled with Nitrogen, hence it is safer as well.

[ajayc123]

I have never been able to make my head around the basis that nitrogen in tyres being significantly better that natural air, which is 78% nitrogen, and 21% oxygen, and rest are other gases.

Since the oxygen sits next to nitrogen on the periodic table. I don’t expect it to be much different from nitrogen in terms of properties.

Are there scientific studies that establish the superiority of nitrogen in real life passenger car use cases ?

Any pointers to such academic research would be appreciated.

I cannot rule out that pure Nitrogen may have a role to play in extreme car racing like F1, but does it really make any tangible difference in passenger cars?

[sridhu]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

I

Since the oxygen sits next to nitrogen on the periodic table. I don’t expect it to be much different from nitrogen in terms of properties.

?

I agree with almost all that you say.

But the above statement is wrong - adjacency is not a predictor of similarity in the periodic table.

Elements in the same column have similar properties

[Gansan]

I don't believe in it. Inflating with nitrogen/air makes no difference in the pressure drop in my car while filling the next time. I have filled in both free as well as paid facilities. I don't even believe they fill free nitogen in petrol pumps, it must be just air.

But I do use the facility if it has a smaller line in front. That is the only reason.

[batish]

I'm not sure if this has been posted earlier but here it is.

Nitrogen vs Air in Tyres - Fifth Gear

In his test, Nitrogen tyres heated a little more than the ones with just Air.

Some of the comments under this video:

Since Oxygen leaks out, a few Air fills should eventually turn the tires air to near Pure Nitrogen.

You'll never get 100% nitrogen in a tire unless you mount the tires and rims in a vacuum chamber. But I just take mine to outer space just to make sure there is absolutely no air in them at all.

Actually, if you fill it with gasoline, you will gain a lot of horsepower.

Its pretty much useless putting pure nitrogen in YOUR tyres, the only reason race teams choose to put pure nitrogen in is that in the event of a crash and fire if a tyre were to burst there would be no added oxygen to feed the fire.

[ajayc123]

Originally Posted by sridhu

I agree with almost all that you say.

But the above statement is wrong - adjacency is not a predictor of similarity in the periodic table.

Elements in the same column have similar properties

Agree about the column thing from a chemical reaction perspective. But I had made a contextual surmise, that since they are next to each other in the periodic table, their heat absorbing properties should be quite similar. So as such to say that having pure nitrogen will result in a lower temperature is hard to digest.

I just did some quick research and here is what I could find:
Specific heat of:
air (typical conditions): 1.012 J⋅g−1⋅K−1
Nitrogen: 1.04 J⋅g−1⋅K−1

So it is a difference is about 2.8 percent.

The difference may not be not substantial in real world use cases.

[bivision]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

Since the oxygen sits next to nitrogen on the periodic table. I don’t expect it to be much different from nitrogen in terms of properties.

This is not correct. Elements in same verticals share similar properties, not adjacent elements in periodic table. F, Cl are similar as shares same column; but sodium, potassium are stronger base metal than magnesium, calcium though next to each other; aluminium is a metal, but silicon is not etc.

As a layman, I would think moisturizer corrodes and oxygen oxidizes specially in compressed high pressure, so they may cause more harm to the tyre than dry nitrogen that will not react with rubber hydrocarbon compounds as much?

[ajayc123]

Originally Posted by bivision

This is not correct. Elements in same verticals share similar properties, not adjacent elements in periodic table. F, Cl are similar as shares same column; but sodium, potassium are stronger base metal than magnesium, calcium though next to each other; aluminium is a metal, but silicon is not etc.

As a layman, I would think moisturizer corrodes and oxygen oxidizes specially in compressed high pressure, so they may cause more harm to the tyre than dry nitrogen that will not react with rubber hydrocarbon compounds as much?

My answer to your first point is the same as in post #816.

I was able to reach one article that provides a balanced perspective and also addresses your point #2.

Link

Some key points.

Summary: Your choice depends on how you use your vehicle

So where does all this information leave us? As we’ve seen, nitrogen does have some technological advantages over air for tire inflation. Whether or not those advantages will be of any practical use to you depends on how you use your car. Certainly, if you fall into one or more of the categories below, using nitrogen could be beneficial:

If you have one or more cars that are primarily used at the racetrack
If you drive very sparingly and your car sits unused for an extended time
If you own collectible cars that are seldom driven any great distances
If you have to put your car in storage for a significant period of time

If you use your car on a regular basis for daily driving and don’t fall into any of the above categories, it’s difficult to see how using nitrogen gives you any practical benefits, especially compared to its cost and inconvenience. But it’s your call – nitrogen does no harm to your tires and if you’re interested, you can test it out. If you don’t like it or don’t see any benefits, you can always go back to the free (or almost free) alternative that we’ve all used successfully for years: air.

[Mortis]

I think more than anything it's the fact that standard air when filled in tyres brings with it water vapour which can corrode your rims a bit and lead to minor leaks and is prone to phase change to a greater degree. Also the amount of water will build up over time.
Whereas the pure nitrogen is "dried" and introduces less water vapour between the tyre and rim

[ajayc123]

Originally Posted by Mortis

I think more than anything it's the fact that standard air when filled in tyres brings with it water vapour which can corrode your rims a bit and lead to minor leaks and is prone to phase change to a greater degree. Also the amount of water will build up over time.
Whereas the pure nitrogen is "dried" and introduces less water vapour between the tyre and rim

Quoting from the same article in the previous post #818

Long-term tire aging and wheel corrosion: advantage for nitrogen

Air is 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen, with the remainder being trace gases. Oxygen can retain moisture inside your tires and eventually can oxidize the internal tire wall casing, causing premature tire aging. In extreme cases, the moisture can even cause the tire’s steel reinforcing belts to rust. If the wheel’s paint protection is damaged, this can also promote rust in steel wheels.

Nitrogen, on the other hand, is an inert, dry gas and does not support moisture. The use of 93-95% pure nitrogen will prevent premature tire aging and wheel corrosion due to internal moisture. However, some experts say that under normal driving conditions, a tire’s tread will reach its minimum usable depth long before any effect of oxidation on the tire wall or wheel rust. Although nitrogen has the technological advantage here, the practical benefit is minimal under normal driving conditions. It may be beneficial if your car is not driven regularly or is placed in storage.

[Mortis]

Honestly I've never filled Nitrogen cos I'm cheap. I've been curious though. I guess based on the quoted article it would make sense to use on the stock tyres which are usually poor quality and more prone to failure and to keep the rim in better shape over the long term

[Thad E Ginathom]

I am not a scientist, so someone qualified should weigh in here.

What is this this about oxygen supporting moisture? Isn't it air can include water vapour? Oxygen is oxygen --- is all. And it is oxygen that "corrodes/rusts" things. Water vapour helps it on its way. So there could be heaps of moisture in with the nitrogen, but, if no oxygen, no rust.

I have forgotten how moisture helps rust/oxidation: I'm going to google that now.

And if I'm wrong, please correct me. It's all learning.

EDIT: About rust. It's complicated. Water is not just just a helper in rusting iron it is necessary.

BBC Simplified explanation

Stack Exchange more complex version

Long story made short: Without both oxygen and water, iron/steel will not rust.

[ajayc123]

Since natural air has humidity (water vapour), and oxygen, which when filled, would create the ingredients required for corrosion when air is filled in tubeless tyres, where the pressurised air comes in contact with inner section of the rim. However, if the rims are treated for corrosion (for example some coating or the chemical composition of wheel e.g. alloy), then even this corrosion can be minimized during the useful life.

Also in case of tubed tyres, the air does not come in direct contact with inside of the rim, the corrosion risk may be lower.

[Thad E Ginathom]

I do not think I have ever heard of anyone replacing wheels because they got corroded by the air used to fill the tyres.

I have never had this fear, and never expect to.

[Gansan]

Rims get corroded in time, whether we use tube or tubeless tyres. Normally nobody will keep the car for so long.

My motorbike runs on tube tyres. After twenty two years the rims got corroded and developed holes in two places. So I replaced them. It will take even longer in a car.