[bottle]

^ lol

in my case i find the ride harsh with nitrogen but I guess this is because of varying pressures at various pumps

[sunil_k_u]

Hi All,

I encountered this thread while moving around in TBHP. Found it interesting that the thread had started long before and is still active.

Thought of sharing my experience with Nitrogen. I used to fill normal air in my Safari from the day one and check the pressure once in 15days or so to top it up by 3-4 psi. Then, one fine day the Tata Authorised Servie Station guy sold me the idea of filling Nitrogen gas in all tyres and forget about re-filling for at least 3months. After the fill, I went for a long trip of 650 KM and felt the ride was very comfortable. At the end of the journey I found that the pressure was less by 4-5 psi. I, obviously re-filled normal air.

During next service, I asked the TASS service advisor to empty all the tyres and fill Nitrogen, to check how it goes in city drives. Got Nitrogen filled (they charged me for it, too) and checked the the tyre pressure after 2 weeks of city drive. I found that the air pressure was less by 3-4 psi this time as well.

I see different people here have conflicting information/experiences. My experience was not that good with filling Nitrogen, so I went back to the same old petrol station where normal air is filled.

-my 2 cents.

[pacman2881]

Guys, I understand that the nitrogen advantage itself is debatable but I thought whatever benefits claimed may be because of the usage of dry nitrogen compared to moist air. However I was surprised by one particular answer touching upon moisture content in nitrogen at filling stations at The Hindu Virtual Mechanic section on nitrogen usage-

"Filling nitrogen in car tyres isn't really necessary. Nitrogen is used generally in aircraft tyres which go through a lot of pressure and temperature changes which happen as an aircraft ascends or descends. Nitrogen helps the tyres run cooler and also maintains consistent tyre pressure in changing conditions. The nitrogen that you get at fuel stations isn't free of moisture and doesn't give you the benefits you would expect. Besides, a car tyre's operating environment is far less harsh than that of an aircraft, so you really don't need the nitrogen."

Can anyone confirm if nitrogen we get does infact contain moisture? If this is the case most of the perceived advantage are lost because IMO moisture expands more due to heat while dry air / nitrogen won't have that issue.

Further to this I also have another question- With moisture content varying across geography, shouldn't the tyre pressure be adjusted for the difference in moisture content between say a moist place like mumbai / chennai and a interior place like say bhopal? Or am I taking it little too far?

[Digital Vampire]

I cant comment on the percentage of moisture content in the nitrogen fill but my observation substantiated by accurate pressure and temperature measurements is that the expansion of nitrogen gas filled from a reputed tyre shop versus normal air from any pump is the same. See. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1889085-post743.html

To me the practical benefits of using Nitrogen is utter bull c#$p.

[vikram_d]

Originally Posted by pacman2881

Can anyone confirm if nitrogen we get does infact contain moisture?

Yes the commercial sylinders that you get contain anywhere from 5 - 15% moisture in them.

Edit: My experiment details of comparison between normal compressed air and nitrogen - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1156546-post323.html

[sunnysideup]

With all due respect to the seniors including those who have been experimenting, please allow me to share my personal experience.

I've been using Nitrogen in all my car and bike tyres for about 3 years now and this is my observation.

On an SUV

- My Scorpio which has done 80K kms - the last 30K kms on Nitrogen filled Yokohamas is definitely happier than it was on the previously air-filled Michelin LTX boots. Less/slower deflation means less likelihood of driving with under-inflated tyres which directly translates to better tyre life and mileage. My Yokos look in better condition than my Michelins did at the same age even though I would rank Michelins as superior tyres.

On a Sedan

- My Civic has done about 28K kms on Nitrogen filled 225/55 Michelins - brilliant handling because tyres are rarely if ever under-inflated. However ride feels stiffer but that's also partly due to lower profile tyres, unlike my Scorpio's ample profile tyres.

On a Bike

- My Ninja feels better and definitely runs cooler on Nitrogen. Again, I feel more confident cornering on a properly inflated tyre.

I agree that its a royal pain to find a Nitrogen filling station ( I'm lucky cause I have one less than a km from home ) but I feel that the pay-off in better inflation and the dividends in better tyre life, mileage and subsequent handling are well worth the effort.

Make no mistake - tyre pressure monitoring does NOT become 'fill and forget' - you still need to keep an eye on tyre pressure and essential practices such as tyre rotation and wheel balancing also aid in tyre life - but IMHO the benefits that I have experienced is worth the pain of looking for a Nitrogen station!!

[vikram_d]

Originally Posted by sunnysideup

My Yokos look in better condition than my Michelins did at the same age even though I would rank Michelins as superior tyres.

All the Yokos I have seen have a slighlty harder rubber compound and stiffer sidewalls (on SUV tyres) when compared to Michelins. Nitrogen has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by sunnysideup

My Civic has done about 28K kms on Nitrogen filled 225/55 Michelins - brilliant handling because tyres are rarely if ever under-inflated. However ride feels stiffer but that's also partly due to lower profile tyres, unlike my Scorpio's ample profile tyres.

On 225/55 tyres of course the Civic will handle well. Again nitrogen has absolutely no effect over here.

Originally Posted by sunnysideup

My Ninja feels better and definitely runs cooler on Nitrogen. Again, I feel more confident cornering on a properly inflated tyre.

How do you know that the tyres are running cooler. Any scientific data available with you?

[buntydey]

Guys, may be a little off-topic, but how much does it cost to fill Nitrogen in all 4 tyres? The shop in my area charges Rs 50 for each tyre with 2 free top-ups in 3 months. Is he taking me for a ride?

[Pr_007]

It is 10 rupees per wheel, so it has to be 40 rupees for the car and even if you fill it for another 2 times in 3 months it must come only to 80, so the total is around 120 rupees in 3 months. I live in CHENNAI.

You are paying 200 rupees with 2 top ups that is 80 rupees more than the normal.

Check with other petrol pumps or any tire shops and then decide about changing shops for the Nitrogen

I have been comfortable and enjoying driving my Fiat Linea with normal air with 36 psi in all the four tyres from October 2009. I do not feel any need to switch over to N2.

[sunnysideup]

Originally Posted by vikram_d

All the Yokos I have seen have a slighlty harder rubber compound and stiffer sidewalls (on SUV tyres) when compared to Michelins. Nitrogen has absolutely nothing to do with it.



On 225/55 tyres of course the Civic will handle well. Again nitrogen has absolutely no effect over here.



How do you know that the tyres are running cooler. Any scientific data available with you?

Whoa!!! Hang on there Chief!! I was NOT making a scientific statement since I did NOT perform any experiments. I was merely making an observation based on my personal experience over three years of using Nitrogen after 20 years of regular air.

If you will notice, I did not make any observations about moisture and pressures within the tyres - my entire focus was on lesser leakage.

Incidentally I read your post and also your comment on 'Bhoruka Gas' cylinders supplying Nitrogen with 5 - 15% moisture. What is the point you were trying to make?

I'm asking because to my knowledge the chappie ( Navratan Lal in Lloyds Rd, Chennai ) who fills my tyres does so with a machine that actually "generates" Nitrogen by removing/sucking out the Oxygen content in compressed air. I presume this is possible since air is anyway 78% Nitrogen.

The machine also filters out oil/dust and other impurities in the air to ensure that the nitrogen within the tyres is as pure as possible - that's why filling the tyres involves purging the air in the tyres first - or so he explained.

I also noted that in most places where Nitrogen stations are located, they are called 'generators'. If that be the case, what is the relevance of your comment on commercial nitrogen in cylinders?




With regard to my personal experience, after years of using regular air, I KNOW that my tyres take longer to deflate when filled with Nitrogen - the top-up intervals are longer -(and I'm very finicky about things like this on my vehicles)

That itself means that the tyres are properly inflated - most of the time - reducing wear and tear and improving mileage. I don't think any scientific observations are required beyond noting the top -up intervals for this, don't you agree?

[yzfrj]

Does it make sense that Nitrogen filled tyre will retain the "correct" pressure for longer ?

After reading this from vikram_d

If the temperature of an air filled and Nitrogen filled tyre is almost identical.
Loss/retention of pressure should be similar.

PS : My dad's Swift VDi - (195/65/14 Turenza ER60) has Nitrogen filled and as per his experience pressure drop is next to nothing. (1 psi in a month) He drives around 30-40Kms on a average per day with 100-200kms during weekends.

I got Nitrogen filled (for free ) when I got a new set of tyres.
It does't make sense for me to drive to the tyre guy (around 35kms round trip = 3.5 Ltrs of Petrol) just for the "free" top-up.

I'd rather top-up with air.

or

Buy an electric tyre inflator thingy Rs. 400-700/- from ebay

[sunnysideup]

Originally Posted by yzfrj

PS : My dad's Swift VDi - (195/65/14 Turenza ER60) has Nitrogen filled and as per his experience pressure drop is next to nothing. (1 psi in a month) He drives around 30-40Kms on a average per day with 100-200kms during weekends.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who noted this.

I agree though that in your case driving 35km to top-up makes no sense. I used to face this dilemma in my previous residence which was quite a distance from a Nitrogen Station - used to simply make it a point to top up when ever I traveled near by on some other work which would normally be once in 4 - 6 weeks and found that this was adequate!

[sgiitk]

I think the key is 'DRY'. Air is equally good - has 78% Nitrogen! Most service stations keep the compressor in the vicinity of the washing system. Moisture gets into the tyre and that can cause far higher pressure variations. I did a calculation and found that in an Accent Nitrogen filling will be about 4gm per tyre lighter.

I sue an electric pump at home, and seldom have to fill air in under a couple of months. I start with +2 psi and allow it to go to -2 psi.

[asethi]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I think the key is 'DRY'. Air is equally good - has 78% Nitrogen! Most service stations keep the compressor in the vicinity of the washing system. Moisture gets into the tyre and that can cause far higher pressure variations. I did a calculation and found that in an Accent Nitrogen filling will be about 4gm per tyre lighter.

I sue an electric pump at home, and seldom have to fill air in under a couple of months. I start with +2 psi and allow it to go to -2 psi.

Whatever be the reasoning guys, but the fact is that I refilled nitrogen in my car tyres after more than 6 months & 11000+ kms gap. This never hapenned with normal air, which I had to refill every month at max!