[archat68]

Originally Posted by sairamboko

Is there any way to verify if the clutch was actually replaced?

I think if it is mentioned on the job sheet and invoice then it is done else not.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by sudev

Open clutch is still putting wear tear on clutch bearing and fork...neutral does not.

Sad thing in their design is, even if you put it into neutral, the clutch is still held open as long as the engine is on. Thats why it shifts to 1st instantaneously. Hence, after discovering this, I was not so paranoid about shifting to neutral. I have verified it in the diagnostic tool.

Originally Posted by sairamboko

Is there any way to verify if the clutch was actually replaced? Also i started the car and opened the bonnet to observe if there is any unusual sound or like that. However I found that the engine and the place where its mounted is vibrating a lot. Is this normal?

You should be given a bill with the list of jobs done and parts replaced. Only the cost will be zero. If not, I doubt that a warranty replacement has happened. I have bill for both instances where the clutch was replaced.

Yes, the K10 engine does vibrate a bit while idling. This was more significant in my WagonR. In the Celerio it slightly vibrates but not as much as I used to see in my WagonR. In my wagonR the vibration was so much that it used to dislodge the accelerator cable which ran over the air filter box. With the AMT variant, since the accelerator is drive by wire, I am not sure if the vibrations are actually lesser or not.

[sairamboko]

Thanks Audioholic and archat68! The invoice does have the list of parts replaced and Clutch set is one of them.Guess I am good now.

[Rshrey22]

How does the AMT perform the when used solely in manual mode?

Considering the fact that the issues become visible mostly during stop and go traffic and when driving through inclines in auto mode, will it be useful to shift the gears manually?

My father has to drive for around 50-70 kms daily in Delhi traffic, so obviously the constant use of clutch and accelerator puts stress on to him. I was considering buying buying an AMT ignis (It's new in the market and has a smooth 4 cyl unit) and use to shift gears manually (without worrying about pressing the clutch again and again).

I would like to have some feedback regarding the AMT's performance in manual mode, and will this purchase be feasible for the purpose?

[HappyWheels]

Originally Posted by Rshrey22

How does the AMT perform the when used solely in manual mode?...

I have found it more engaging to drive in manual mode. And while moving it between gears, it is best to release the accelerator (just like how you would do when driving a manual gear).

[Rshrey22]

Originally Posted by HappyWheels

I have found it more engaging to drive in manual mode. And while moving it between gears, it is best to release the accelerator (just like how you would do when driving a manual gear).

Thanks for your feedback HappyWheels, we'll be booking a test drive for tomorrow!!

[vsathyap]

Originally Posted by wishnipon

AMT issues:

1. At speed breakers, I slow down, the AMT shifts to first gear, I cross the speed breaker, then the car unpredictably leaps forward so that I have to nervously brake again to bring back the car in control.
   
2. After stopping, as I start again from stand-still the car moves ahead with a judder. This doesn't happen all the time though.
   
3. I feel one of the major issues that I face with the AMT is sudden braking . Compared to a manual, it tends to slow and then stop with a jerk. This gives nervous moments in stop and go traffic.

It was a while since I looked at this thread and your post brought back that "Exactly" feeling in my head. Your list is almost a duplicate of what I faced very recently on my K10 AMT. The issue was so bad that the mods pulled it out of this thread and made a separate one for it.

You can read it here: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ump-ahead.html (Maruti Alto: AMT makes the car suddenly "jump" ahead)

However, the AMT seems to be behaving normally now. Just acceptable I suppose. I do feel the judder sometimes (specially when the AC is ON and this adds to the engine load, given the poor low end) but its not so much that I get bothered by it.

Let me know what action you have taken for your AMT - I'm curious to know!

[wishnipon]

Originally Posted by vsathyap

Let me know what action you have taken for your AMT - I'm curious to know!

I have had to modify my driving style to cope with the AMT. I drive VERY sedately now, accelerating and braking gradually, always keeping a handsome gap from the car ahead of me. This way, I have been able to deal with the AMT issues. However, now that I maintain a handsome gap from the car ahead, autorickshaws, two wheelers and sometimes even hatchbacks try to overtake me - as if they are in a big hurry - and get in the gap!

[HappyWheels]

When I drive the AMT, I use manual shifting and change it as if I am driving a manual - release accelerator, shift gear and then accelerate. This, to me, seems to have a faster response in not just shifting of the gear, but also better control on the power delivery.

Leaving it in D often ends up with me not knowing if I will get the power needed when needed, especially when overtaking in short bursts.

Keeping the accelerator pressed and manually shifting the gear is counterproductive, as it takes time to cut acceleration, shift gear and then provide the acceleration input.

[sharanvenu]

Hello all,

I am in the process of getting an Ignis AMT for use in the city. I found the AMT in the Ignis slightly more aggressive and better calibrated than in the Celerio. Perhaps the added torque of the engine helps matters.
One question which come into my mind often is that how would the transmission behave in an incline which is beyond the capability of the car.
I know that if we are lugging uphill (not pressing the accelerator) in 1st gear and the incline or load gets too much for the car, it won't stall like a manual transmission would. Instead, the AMT will just disengage the clutch and you start rolling backwards!
My question is, how would the AMT behave if we are trying to clear the incline in the peak power band and is still too much load for the engine?

In MT, we can probably modulate the clutch to clear such situations (though not a good practice and harmful for the clutch), and the engine might stall if the engine cannot take it, but how can we handle such a situation in the AMT? Would the AMT engage the clutch and the car roll backwards?

This is a highly hypothetical question. I know that we wouldn't dare to do such things in the subject car, but just being curious.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by sharanvenu

Hello all,

My question is, how would the AMT behave if we are trying to clear the incline in the peak power band and is still too much load for the engine?

In MT, we can probably modulate the clutch to clear such situations (though not a good practice and harmful for the clutch), and the engine might stall if the engine cannot take it, but how can we handle such a situation in the AMT? Would the AMT engage the clutch and the car roll backwards?

.

The AMT also will slip the clutch in first gear until the car starts rolling forward. There is also a mechanism to sense the torque demanded by the car to roll ahead and until that is met, the clutch is slipped. Once the initial roll happens, the clutch will slowly be disengaged once the demanded torque and supplied torque comes close.

[archat68]

Originally Posted by audioholic

A few insights into the AMT system:

Very useful post there Audioholic. May I request you to post the photo of the TCM reset and relearning procedure page?

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by archat68

Very useful post there Audioholic. May I request you to post the photo of the TCM reset and relearning procedure page?

Since I am currently in Germany, I dont have access to the service manual. However, both the reset and relearning should be done from the SDT in the service center.

But off late, I have had a nice experience with the AMT on my Celerio. Firstly, though there is a slight judder, it isnt violent nor causing any jerks while driving. It just creates a small judder when the clutch slips.

Also, I have discovered another trick to help instant creep without any delay which doesnt need me to use the handbrake at inclines. This is done by making the TCM relearning the clutch stroke. First, lets look at a few daily life observations:

• Delay in creep, requiring accelerator pedal to be pressed
• Not launching forward in inclines easily without accelerator and handbrake
• Excessive judder when creeping

The TCM performs creep by moving the clutch to the bite point and then on slowly releasing it further. This bite point is regularly learnt and corrected in order to compensate for clutch wear. However, if we keep launching the vehicle by pressing accelerator and not allowing it to creep, the TCM forgets the bite point or rather it moves it backward. Mostly in medium traffic conditions, we can never wait for the transmission to slowly creep and come to the 6kmph creep speed and at least I end up launching the car with the accelerator if I am taking off from a signal or so. Even in bumper to bumper traffic we have the habit of covering the gap ahead quickly so press the accelerator to get a faster launch from start.

Due to this, I have discovered that the AMT gets laggy, and creeping is very late. To sort this problem, once in a few days, I let the TCM learn the bite point when I am in an empty parking lot. Also, if you do it in a slight incline, it will work out better. I take the car to my Grandmothers place which has a downward road and I need to reverse it upwards into her gate. Now in a tight road, we know that it will be tricky in the AMT.

However, once in such a situation, I slotted the car into reverse, let go of the brake without touching the accelerator. The car started rolling forward and slowed down once the clutch was released. The car became standstill, but still couldnt reverse on its own. After a few seconds, the clutch was opened and this is the typical scenario of AMT giving up. Now for the second try, I again did the same thing. The car rolled forward, stopped, and slowly started reversing. I did not touch the accelerator pedal. It took some time, but finally reversed without giving up. The third repetition, the creep engaged much faster, and the car hardly rolled ahead. It reversed up comfortably and I parked the car without touching the accelerator.

After this, I noticed that on a flat surface, the creep was instant and quick. This basically points out to the TCM having corrected its bite point and is now able to properly release the clutch in time.

All this has resulted in me not using the handbrake method to launch the car in slopes. All it requires is some occasional practice to the TCM, preferably in a slope. That works wonders.

[archat68]

Originally Posted by audioholic

However, once in such a situation, I slotted the car into reverse, let go of the brake without touching the accelerator. The car started rolling forward and slowed down once the clutch was released. The car became standstill, but still couldnt reverse on its own. After a few seconds, the clutch was opened and this is the typical scenario of AMT giving up. Now for the second try, I again did the same thing. The car rolled forward, stopped, and slowly started reversing. I did not touch the accelerator pedal. It took some time, but finally reversed without giving up. The third repetition, the creep engaged much faster, and the car hardly rolled ahead. It reversed up comfortably and I parked the car without touching the accelerator.

After this, I noticed that on a flat surface, the creep was instant and quick. This basically points out to the TCM having corrected its bite point and is now able to properly release the clutch in time.

All this has resulted in me not using the handbrake method to launch the car in slopes. All it requires is some occasional practice to the TCM, preferably in a slope. That works wonders.

The car not moving in reverse is happening to me also. Even in flat surface the car does not move reverse when the brake is released. Since I enter my parking area by reversing from a busy and narrow street I can't wait for the car to start crawling backwards and use the accelerator.

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by audioholic

The AMT also will slip the clutch in first gear until the car starts rolling forward.

Hello Audioholic, how is the juddering issue with your car now? I remember you replaced the clutch set for the 2nd/3rd time. Have you found any permanent fix for this problem?

I am asking because my car is at Maruti service center now to solve the same. The clutch set was replaced on my celerio at 13k, and the juddering is back at 21k. They are checking for throttle body, spark plugs, engine mounts, amt calibration, etc. again, but I think its useless. So if you have found any permanent fix, please let me know.

I asked Service Manager if he can get help from higher level, but seems it will look bad for their service center if they do so. Although, he said he will talk to bigger service center, which is Ahmedabad in my case, if necessary. I really hope they solve this issue permanently this time.