[sudev]

In cars with AMT it's good practice to push gear position to neutral at red lights and when on upward slopes in traffic jam situations.

Keeping fingers crossed Alto at 25k on odo but no judders issues.

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by daniel_sam

Q1. Is the diagnosis by the SA correct?
Q2. Should I really spend around 7k now to rectify this problem which is cropping up only occasionally?
Q3. Is there any scope of getting the clutch replacement done under warranty or at reduced rate since this is known/common issue with AMT gear boxes ?
Q4. Is there any other AMT/gearbox adjustments or resets that I should try before opening the gearbox?

Your SA is right about clutch wear, replacing it will solve the issue for another 7-10k, but not permanently. I replaced my clutch set at 13k, and the issue cropped up again at 20k, very light jerking though. I am sure the jerking will be more intense after 2-3k, from my past experience.

One of the reason you experience jerking occasionally might be your low mile usage. In my car, if I drive in traffic for about an hour, the jerking is definitely felt. But my daily usage is such that the car runs for 3-5 km or 10 mins, 3-4 times a day at long intervals. So not experiencing much in that case.

Please do not pay for clutch set replacement, there are many in this forum who has done that under warranty. I request you ask your SA to raise this issue to Maruti, so they also know about it and can give permanent fix. Otherwise be prepared for clutch set replacement every 10k.

[HappyWheels]

Originally Posted by sudev

In cars with AMT it's good practice to push gear position to neutral at red lights and when on upward slopes in traffic jam situations.

Keeping fingers crossed Alto at 25k on odo but no judders issues.

Do not think it is good to do that.

Have a new Celerio AMT ZXi(O) and when ever I go to "N" at the signal, the vehicle refuses to get back into gear. Have to restart the vehicle.

The car is just 1200kms old. So, not sure if the first service might take care of it. Fingers crossed here also!

[wishnipon]

I have done 15700 km in last three years. Had judder issue rarely in the beginning and I ignored them as one-off issues. However in the last few months, I have been experiencing the judders, in the lower gears.

Driving habit: My nature of driving is 99% within the city with rides of 3 to 5 km each. I drive sedately keeping a good distance from the car ahead and ease up on the accelerator when I predict a gear change. At signals, I don't keep the brake pressed and put the gear in neutral instead. I also rely on the handbrake for stopping at inclines or in hill-start situations.

AMT issues:

1. At speed breakers, I slow down, the AMT shifts to first gear, I cross the speed breaker, then the car unpredictably leaps forward so that I have to nervously brake again to bring back the car in control.
   
2. After stopping, as I start again from stand-still the car moves ahead with a judder. This doesn't happen all the time though.
   
3. I feel one of the major issues that I face with the AMT is sudden braking . Compared to a manual, it tends to slow and then stop with a jerk. This gives nervous moments in stop and go traffic.

Of the above three issues, 1 and 2 have been felt by me only in recent months while number 3 has been there pretty much right from the start.

At higher gears (third gear and onwards), the AMT is absolutely smooth and the gear changes are swift.

Originally Posted by HappyWheels

Do not think it is good to do that.

Have a new Celerio AMT ZXi(O) and when ever I go to "N" at the signal, the vehicle refuses to get back into gear. Have to restart the vehicle.

The car is just 1200kms old. So, not sure if the first service might take care of it. Fingers crossed here also!

That is highly unusual. It has never happened to me. This must be fixed.

[sudev]

Originally Posted by HappyWheels

Do not think it is good to do that.

Have a new Celerio AMT ZXi(O) and when ever I go to "N" at the signal, the vehicle refuses to get back into gear. Have to restart the vehicle.

The car is just 1200kms old. So, not sure if the first service might take care of it. Fingers crossed here also!

Must be some particular setting. Press brake pedal and shift the gear. Works great

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by wishnipon

AMT issues:

1. At speed breakers, I slow down, the AMT shifts to first gear, I cross the speed breaker, then the car unpredictably leaps forward so that I have to nervously brake again to bring back the car in control.
   
2. After stopping, as I start again from stand-still the car moves ahead with a judder. This doesn't happen all the time though.
   
3. I feel one of the major issues that I face with the AMT is sudden braking . Compared to a manual, it tends to slow and then stop with a jerk. This gives nervous moments in stop and go traffic.

Since your car is already 3 years old, it might be out of warranty unless you have taken 4 years extended warranty. Try to explain the issue to your SA, and you might get free clutch set replacement. Juddering will not go away unless you replace clutch set. The reason for the occasional juddering is your low mileage usage, which masks the problem. I have the same situation.

[wishnipon]

Originally Posted by Sparky

Since your car is already 3 years old, it might be out of warranty unless you have taken 4 years extended warranty. Try to explain the issue to your SA, and you might get free clutch set replacement. Juddering will not go away unless you replace clutch set. The reason for the occasional juddering is your low mileage usage, which masks the problem. I have the same situation.

I do have a four year warranty. So you think it is a case of worn out clutches?

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by wishnipon

I do have a four year warranty. So you think it is a case of worn out clutches?

I am no expert on engine and transmissions, but I am just giving my opinion/suggestion based on my experience and knowledge from this forum. You can ask your SA to check what the problem is, and if he is not able to diagnose properly, you can give your inputs and may be raise the issue to Maruti also.

Your 3rd issue with AMT is little weird, have you ever mentioned it your SA? since that issue is from the beginning.

[pgsagar]

I think problem here is weak petrol engines rather than AMT. Alto/Celerio come with 800/1000 cc petrol engines which have very low torque inherently. Even an expert driver needs to dial in a little more power to get moving off stand-still, as you come off clutch. After driving bigger diesel manual cars, when I get behind the wheel of my F-I-L's manual Alto once in a while, I stall the engine as I come off clutch. Torque is so low. So, I slip a bit of clutch while dialing in more power to get moving. Now, probably this is what AMT unit does, too, and hence the worn out clutch plates. That's the reason we don't hear about such problems with diesel AMT cars like Duster, Dzire, Zest etc. I have driven Dzire and Duster AMTs (both diesel) and found them very good. In fact, found 'em better accelerating than their MT variants. I'm sure Brezza AMT would do fine and so would Ignis diesel AMT. Maruti should up the torque of these tiny petrol engines and I'm sure problem will be gone.

[sairamboko]

Originally Posted by sairamboko

Hi All, i am facing the juddering issue in Alto. Its not bad but irritating. Also the AMT upshifts very early, which causes a severe lag even without a/c. I took the car to my nearest service center - Pratham Motors Bellandur, opp ecospace. The SA took some drives inside the service center and acknoledged the issue. He said, entire clutch assembly has to be change and approximate cost would be INR 5500 + taxes. I feel that he is wrong. I didnt take his suggestion and came back. Need your views on this. Mine is a 11 months old Alto K10 AMt which is nearing 15,000 kms now.

An update regarding my Alto K10 AMT. I raised a ruckus after my previous interaction where the SA said clutch juddering is there and clutch replacement won't be done under warranty. I dropped my car on Friday again after getting this escalated. Now the SA replaced my clutch assembly without any questions. Will collect the car tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

[daniel_sam]

Originally Posted by Sparky

Please do not pay for clutch set replacement, there are many in this forum who has done that under warranty. I request you ask your SA to raise this issue to Maruti, so they also know about it and can give permanent fix. Otherwise be prepared for clutch set replacement every 10k.

Thank you @Sparky for you valuable inputs and suggestions. I am negotiating with the service center now. I requested them to replace the clutch under warranty and pointed out that Maruti did so in many cases.
They said they will consider the request and get back. I am waiting for their response. I will keep you all posted if there is any progress on this matter.

[sairamboko]

Originally Posted by sairamboko

An update regarding my Alto K10 AMT. I raised a ruckus after my previous interaction where the SA said clutch juddering is there and clutch replacement won't be done under warranty. I dropped my car on Friday again after getting this escalated. Now the SA replaced my clutch assembly without any questions. Will collect the car tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

Got the car yesterday. SA says clutch set has been replaced and the cost is some 1200 INR and it was done in warranty, so no charge to me. Coming back to the car, the car feels peppier. The speed in creep is a bit high, sometimes scaring me. Drove back to my home - a distance of 35 kms. Was a good one without any issues and juddering. Even normal gear shifts were good, i didnt notice any kind of lag anytime. I really hope that the issue is solved permanently.

[audioholic]

Was away from the technical stuff for a while, and there seem to be some new developments on this thread.

Originally Posted by deep_bang

If there are enough people this may be a situation to initiate a class action lawsuit. If the clutch is not manual then isn't that also something warranty should cover? I mean how can you wear out a clutch in 15-20k kms when you don't even have control of it....

That would be welcome. Before the lawsuit, it will be great if we have a definite list of people who are facing issues with Juddering. That can help us quote the same to Maruti in case they try to shrug it off as a one off case.

Regarding the second point, thats exactly how I have managed to get clutch replacements without any questions. If the clutch is not under my control, then the company cannot blame me for wearing it out. Even my manual car clutch has lasted beyond 50k kms being driven in the same manner and in the same conditions. Hence, the clutch replacements SHOULD be covered under warranty.

Originally Posted by daniel_sam

After checking the service history, SA informed that in Aug '17, they did a clutch play adjustment which solved the issue.
This time also they tried the same fix, but the issue is still there even after the play adjustment. So he is suggesting clutch replacement. .

The clutch play adjustment actually solves the judder issue to some extent. I discovered that recently, since I can detect there is a faint vibration, but the judder itself isnt prominent after 9k kms after the recent clutch change. The first two clutch sets started juddering within 5k kms. There is one clutch position which the AMT holds which causes the juddering. While replacing the clutch the last time, they have loosened the nut that connects the clutch fork with the actuator, which leads to early release of the clutch. This has got me very instantaneous creep and very less judder. If you tighten this nut, the creep is delayed and during creep the juddering is present.

Originally Posted by pradkumar

Not using the handbrake on a slope and letting the car roll back. That is a big enough reason for clutch burn.

True, but there is a safety mechanism for this as well. On a slope, the AMT will slip the clutch upto a certain extent. If it is not able to achieve movement, ie there is too much resistance from the axle, the clutch is opened and the car rolls freely. I tried this while reversing up an incline without any inputs. Let go of the brake, and the slipping began. But the car still rolled forward. I thought that the AMT will continue by asking more gas, but it didnt. It simply opened the clutch and the car started rolling forward freely.

Originally Posted by sudev

In cars with AMT it's good practice to push gear position to neutral at red lights and when on upward slopes in traffic jam situations.

Sir with the AMT, as long as you hit the brake or the handbrake, irrespective of the gear position the clutch remains open and no slipping takes place until the brake is released or the accelerator is pressed. Though for safety's sake its always better to put to neutral when stopped, it doesnt affect the clutch as long as you have the brake pressed or handbrake engaged.

[sairamboko]

Originally Posted by audioholic

While replacing the clutch the last time, they have loosened the nut that connects the clutch fork with the actuator, which leads to early release of the clutch. This has got me very instantaneous creep and very less judder. If you tighten this nut, the creep is delayed and during creep the juddering is present.

Thanks for this explanation audioholic!! I guess this is what was done for my car too. The creep is instant and good. Is there any way to verify if the clutch was actually replaced? Also i started the car and opened the bonnet to observe if there is any unusual sound or like that. However I found that the engine and the place where its mounted is vibrating a lot. Is this normal? The engine mount bolts seems to be tight.

[sudev]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Sir with the AMT, as long as you hit the brake or the handbrake, irrespective of the gear position the clutch remains open and no slipping takes place until the brake is released or the accelerator is pressed. Though for safety's sake its always better to put to neutral when stopped, it doesnt affect the clutch as long as you have the brake pressed or handbrake engaged.

Open clutch is still putting wear tear on clutch bearing and fork...neutral does not.