[sairamboko]

Thanks bhpmaniac! Will escalate this within service center first and see.

shajoshi - not experiencing 2 judders or occasional ones. The way how the AMT worked for me when I bought it , the same experience I am not having it.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by sairamboko

Thanks bhpmaniac! Will escalate this within service center first and see.

shajoshi - not experiencing 2 judders or occasional ones. The way how the AMT worked for me when I bought it , the same experience I am not having it.

Why is it not covered under warranty? Tell them that your manual car clutch lasted more than 50k kms and the AMT is at fault if the clutch has worn out prematurely. You arent in control of the clutch in the AMT to take the blame. Also show them this thread and tell that this is a common issue among many cars. I will not pay for the AMT clutch replacement unless I get at least 35-40k kms of proper usage from it.

[sairamboko]

Thank you all for your suggestions! Today morning went back to Pratham motors ORR workshop. Had a talk with the Asst Manager of the workshop. He took test drive and confirmed that there is no juddering issue. The previous SA diagnosed it incorrectly. He offered to do a gear initialization using their OBD tool and software. Their tool was not working and they offered to take my car to Pratham motors Kudlu gate workshop. I just now picked up the car and they did the gear initialization from Mandovi motors which is nearby. I was a bit fumed about this, because they didnt inform me about this change. Initial impressions seems to be that the various issues i had with AMT has been fixed. Will use the care till weekend and get back with the latest update.

Does the gear initialization similar to factory reset or clear cache partition of the mobile? I am not sure what exactly does this mean.

[vsrivatsa]

Originally Posted by parrys

Is anyone using an Ignis Diesel AMT? Same issues on that model as well?

I own a Petrol Delta Ignis and have not faced any issues related to the AMT called out so far. I have completed 5,200 kms of driving mainly in city driving conditions with lots of traffic in Bangalore City.

My understanding so far is that the combination of the AMT Module with a 4 cylinder engine results in a smoother experience and hence these issues are possibly not present on the 4 cylinder engine based cars. As someone already called out - we should know the results soon with the new Dzire selling like hot cakes.

[audioholic]

Yesterday I found another serious bug in the AMT module.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcXgZ8DsJaw

As seen in the video, after coming back home I started the car after a one hour gap. As I slotted into D, I see that the AMT shifts to 2 instead of 1. I shift again, and the same issue. No other errors or lights on the console indicating any fault. Everything feels normal, but the AMT is directly shifting to second gear. I let go of the brake and the vehicle started creeping in second gear itself. Initially I thought it was a wrong indication and the first gear might have engaged, but the car was struggling to creep and it confirmed that it was in the second gear itself.

Thankfully I was able to take a video. I restarted the car and the AMT became normal and slotted to first gear itself. After that everything was normal. There was no error code, no DTC registered either in the AMT module nor in the ECM. That made me feel this is very bizarre. If there is the slightest fault in the AMT, it wont slot to gear or creep or even allow engine start. But in this case, everything was normal, except that the AMT was shifting to second directly.

I cannot believe how such a behavior can occur. Any simple diagnostic code must be able to detect a wrong shift, ie from N to 2 directly. Which makes me feel, everything was running correct inside the system, but somehow it decided to shift to second. The only way this can happen is if the vehicle speed signal sent to the AMT was wrong. I contacted the service head of the dealership and told him to discuss this issue with Maruti. Not sure how they could leave such a bug in the system.

[Sparky]

The jerking issue cropped up again in my Celerio, about 7k after clutch set replacement. Its not severe unless the car is driven in traffic for about an hour.

I called the Service Manager and requested him to involve Maruti this time, he somewhat agreed on the phone. He said he has to prepare a detailed report to inform Maruti about the problem, and asked me if I can lend the car to service center to test for few hours, to which I promptly agreed.

I also told the SM that, if it helps in reporting problem to Maruti, I can try to get emails/phone no. of other people facing the similar issues, along with their service center name. He will let me know if needed. So people on this thread who are facing the issue, is there any way you can give me your email/phone no. or service center name? Maruti is not going to listen if its just one complain from my SM, I think.

[daniel_sam]

Dear members, I own a Maruti Celerio Vxi AMT which I purchased in Feb '16.

After about 10,000 Kms, the AMT gear box developed juddering issue in first gear. I experience the juddering occasionally while moving off from stand still in first gear. The gear shift smoothness of subsequent gears also reduces considerable when this first gear judder crops up.
I raised this complaint multiple times to the Indus Motors Service Center (Trivandrum, Kerala) during routine services and they simply replied saying that "The AMT gear box is like this and nothing can be done"
After couple of bad experiences, I switched the service centre and gave the car for running repairs (in Aug '17 with around 17,000 Kms on the Odo) at Popular Maruti Service Center (Trivandrum, Kerala) and raised the gear box judder issue along with a few more other complaints.
The service advisor took the complaints seriously and rectified all the issues I raised including the gear box judder issue.
After that running repair, the gear shifts were much smoother and the car felt best since my purchase.
The gear box smoothness gradually reduced and the car was back to its jerky self after couple of months, but the judder in lower gear reduced considerably and I used to get it only occasionally.

Last week, I took the car again for routine 2 year - 20,000 Kms service to Popular Maruti service center and mentioned that I occasionally get the first gear judder.
I was told that they didn't find any issue with the gear box so they didn't have to do anything and gave the car back same day after performing routing periodic service.
But while taking the final test drive before the car was delivered to me, the first gear judder was experienced.
The service advisor was also there with me and he also acknowledged the issue.

He took the car back in and told me that the issue could happen due to 2 reasons.
1. Gear box oil seal failure.
2. Clutch wear and tear.

I had opted for 4 year extended warranty and the service advisor told that if the issue is because of oil seal failure, the repairs will be done free of cost.
But if the issue is due to clutch wear and tear, the repairs will cost around 6.5k which involves replacing the clutch.

I am facing the gear box judder only occasionally and even though the gear box is not butter smooth in remaining gear shifts, it is manageable.
Now I am confused on whether to go ahead with the repairs or wait till the problem is more pronounced or starts occurring more frequently .

I thought of asking the service center to open the gear box and fix it under warranty if the issue is related to oil seal.
After opening, if they find that clutch replacement is required, I thought I will do it after sometime.
But in that case also, the SA mentioned that I will be charged around 3k towards labor charges for opening the gear box.

Requesting fellow members to kindly share your thoughts on this issue and guide me.

Q1. Is the diagnosis by the SA correct?
Q2. Should I really spend around 7k now to rectify this problem which is cropping up only occasionally?
Q3. Is there any scope of getting the clutch replacement done under warranty or at reduced rate since this is known/common issue with AMT gear boxes ?
Q4. Is there any other AMT/gearbox adjustments or resets that I should try before opening the gearbox?

[bhp_maniac]

Originally Posted by daniel_sam

Q1. Is the diagnosis by the SA correct?
Q2. Should I really spend around 7k now to rectify this problem which is cropping up only occasionally?
Q3. Is there any scope of getting the clutch replacement done under warranty or at reduced rate since this is known/common issue with AMT gear boxes ?
Q4. Is there any other AMT/gearbox adjustments or resets that I should try before opening the gearbox?

Please consider gearbox repair as a last resort only. Gearbox opening is really complex and in your case, most probably the judder is simply because of clutch issues. Especially considering the fact that Popular was able to fix it the first time. Regarding AMT components, there is a TCM reset which can be performed to see if the issue resolves. Please keep us posted on the updates.

On a side note, I am getting much better service experience these days from Popular than from Indus. My Swift goes to service in Indus and wife's Celerio goes to Popular.

[hillsnrains]

Originally Posted by daniel_sam

Q1. Is the diagnosis by the SA correct?

We too have a Celerio AMT with 25K on ODO.

Based on your symptoms I can say with 95% confidence that the issue is due to clutch wear. If you push hard they will replace under warranty with in first two years of ownership. Our Celerio clutch was replaced around 12K on ODO under warranty after 4-5 ASS visits with the same jerking problem.

This is more of a design problem, but Maruti does not acknowledge it. This is the irony of weak Indian consumer laws. Now a days I hear frequently "AMT is like that only", this phrase has been planted in AMT car owners mind by Maruti ASS people. If this is so, they could not have launced the half baked product in the first place. During my recent visit friendly service advisor said, now a days they are replacing the clutch in very rear scenario's.

[srishiva]

I am just wondering how much more does a CVT cost compared to AMT. I think Maruti might be giving a bad name to automatics by using the design that they are. I believe the issues could be more because of trying to keep it simple and cheap ?

Such robotic clutch transmissions (not dual clutch) are used on exotic cars and will be interesting to see why dont fail. Or maybe they do for the very low miles that they run or its part of owning those cars ?

[archat68]

Originally Posted by srishiva

I am just wondering how much more does a CVT cost compared to AMT. I think Maruti might be giving a bad name to automatics by using the design that they are. I believe the issues could be more because of trying to keep it simple and cheap ?

Also, AMTs usually gives better FE compared to other ATs which is a deal breaker in the Indian context.

[daniel_sam]

Thank you @bhp_maniac and @hillsnrains for your valuable suggestions.

I had a quick discussion with the SA today.
He told that if the judder is because of gear box input oil seal failure, company will do all the works including clutch replacement under warranty free of cost.
But if the issue is simply because of clutch wear and tear, then I will be billed, which sounds fair to me.

Originally Posted by bhp_maniac

Regarding AMT components, there is a TCM reset which can be performed to see if the issue resolves.

Unfortunately the SA is not aware of this option . He says he knows only about ECM/ECU reset, but he said that wont have any effect on the gear box behavior.

Originally Posted by daniel_sam

I switched the service centre and gave the car for running repairs (in Aug '17 with around 17,000 Kms on the Odo) at Popular Maruti Service Center (Trivandrum, Kerala) and raised the gear box judder issue along with a few more other complaints.
The service advisor took the complaints seriously and rectified all the issues I raised including the gear box judder issue.
After that running repair, the gear shifts were much smoother and the car felt best since my purchase.

After checking the service history, SA informed that in Aug '17, they did a clutch play adjustment which solved the issue.
This time also they tried the same fix, but the issue is still there even after the play adjustment. So he is suggesting clutch replacement.

Originally Posted by hillsnrains

Based on your symptoms I can say with 95% confidence that the issue is due to clutch wear. If you push hard they will replace under warranty with in first two years of ownership. Our Celerio clutch was replaced around 12K on ODO under warranty after 4-5 ASS visits with the same jerking problem.

As I have taken extended warranty for 4 years, I decided to wait for a while till the judder is more prominent before requesting the clutch replacement.

[deep_bang]

If there are enough people this may be a situation to initiate a class action lawsuit. If the clutch is not manual then isn't that also something warranty should cover? I mean how can you wear out a clutch in 15-20k kms when you don't even have control of it....

[bhp_maniac]

Originally Posted by daniel_sam

Unfortunately the SA is not aware of this option . He says he knows only about ECM/ECU reset, but he said that wont have any effect on the gear box behavior.

It is mentioned in the User manual of Celerio AMT (The big book which came with the car). You can quote it to him. Nevertheless, I would never pay a hefty sum on clutch replacement at such a low mileage. After all, clutch is something not managed manually in an AMT and Maruti has to respect warranty coverage in this case, which am sure they'll do if you persuade them.

[pradkumar]

Not using the handbrake on a slope and letting the car roll back. That is a big enough reason for clutch burn.

Originally Posted by deep_bang

If there are enough people this may be a situation to initiate a class action lawsuit. If the clutch is not manual then isn't that also something warranty should cover? I mean how can you wear out a clutch in 15-20k kms when you don't even have control of it....