[Bhuvan]

Originally Posted by PearlJam

However, I sometimes face a shudder when going at extremely slow speeds in the 1st gear (like in crawling traffic). This happens during half clutch only, and once the vehicle picks up speed, everything is perfect. It can happen either when starting from cold state, or can happen after driving for a long time - so I don't see a pattern that can be attributed to "heating" of the clutch plates.

Exactly similar observation but in my case the components replaced were clutch plate, pressure plate, flywheel and slave cylinder.

The vehicle is Vitara Brezza Petrol Jan-21 registered and run 9,270 kms when bought in Dec'23. It has hydraulic clutch with current odo at 19,900 km and clutch replacement at 16.5k.

There was screeching noise like worn out V belt kind and the gear shift showed little hesitation. This was diagnosed to faulty slave cylinder but the NEXA technician assured us that nothing will go wrong and to continue to use it.

Lo and behold, while outstation, the screeching noise turned into terrible metallic rubbing kind of noise.

Brake oil leaking




This was the state when tranny was removed



Soaked in brake oil

Originally Posted by SunnyBoi

Bleeding the clutch line will definitely help, do it first. If the problem reoccurs, one of the two components is bad and will need replacing. Its almost always the slave cylinder that goes bad - master cylinder going bad is not common.

The SA insisted on replacing flywheel, even when it was observed to be in good condition, just to prevent the slippage of new clutch, the system was bled as per him.

I can go all guns blazing at him and get the entire set replaced again by involving Maruti but is it worth the time and energy to go this route. By the way the vehicle is in extended warranty till Dec-25 but clutch slave cylinder is not covered by extended warranty.

Any input for troubleshooting and getting this fixed, before going berserk. The gear shifts have become better but not typical Maruti effortless kind. We had Baleno petrol manual from Oct'16 to Dec'23 and it also had it's release bearing replaced in warranty and performed flawlessly except some slippage during winters at around 90k on original clutch.

Thanks in advance.

[Bsilver]

Originally Posted by Bhuvan

Any input for troubleshooting and getting this fixed, before going berserk. The gear shifts have become better but not typical Maruti effortless kind. We had Baleno petrol manual from Oct'16 to Dec'23 and it also had it's release bearing replaced in warranty and performed flawlessly except some slippage during winters at around 90k on original clutch.

This is a clutch centering/alignment issue. No matter how many ever times you replace flywheel/pressure plate/clutch plate. If these things are not centered/aligned correctly, they will eventually fail. Usually what happens is, many people will change clutch set, bearing, and cable as well, but the most important is whether all these things are correctly aligned.

I had a clutch burn in 1000kms and in a day when I did Bangalore - Goa -Bangalore.

Whenever they are installing, spare some time and check if they are using the centering tool. Hopefully this can be an answer, after you have replaced most of the things. An example of a burnt clutch due to misalignment. Picture here:

[BoneCollector]

Our Wagon R is nearly 12 and a half years old currently at 63xxx kms. The clutch assembly was replaced at around 43xxx kms. This is primarily driven by my driver, running is short spans of around 3 kms one way which takes anywhere between 15 minutes to over an hour depending on traffic jams.

I had the opportunity of driving it yesterday for some work at night. The car couldn't climb a small incline with 3 adults and 2 kids. It just stalled and rolled back! I also felt that there is not enough grunt in the engine. The engine just died down. I had to rev hard to make it move. Then I noticed that the car needs more throttle input to start from standstill. It was better a few weeks back.

My question is, is this issue related to the clutch or something is amiss with the engine? There is no white or black smoke out of tailpipe. The fluids are also maintained. The efficiency has definitely gone down to around 6-6.5 kmpl during summers. The car is regularly serviced by MASS with last one done in May.

[Bhuvan]

Originally Posted by BoneCollector

The car couldn't climb a small incline with 3 adults and 2 kids. It just stalled and rolled back! I also felt that there is not enough grunt in the engine. The engine just died down. I had to rev hard to make it move. Then I noticed that the car needs more throttle input to start from standstill. It was better a few weeks back.

The signs that you have mentioned indicate to worn out clutch.

Also notice if the bite point is high, this will conclude the clutch being worn out.

Off-Topic: A friend in family business has MS Wagon R 2016 for common use in family. The car has run 1 lakh plus and was on 11th clutch set and probably 25th-26th rear bumper, thanks to his uncle. He always keeps spare rear unpainted bumper in his garage.

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by PearlJam

As updated previously, my clutch was replaced a few months ago due to slippage, and now there is absolutely no slippage. There is no issue in slotting the gears too.

However, I sometimes face a shudder when going at extremely slow speeds in the 1st gear (like in crawling traffic). This happens during half clutch only, and once the vehicle picks up speed, everything is perfect. It can happen either when starting from cold state, or can happen after driving for a long time - so I don't see a pattern that can be attributed to "heating" of the clutch plates.

The key word here is "sometimes". When this problem does happen intermittently, I have noticed that the clutch pedal feels a bit "grainy" or "sandy", and not perfectly smooth.

Could this be a bad master cylinder? Or bad slave cylinder? Or both? These were not replaced when the clutch was replaced.

Or, could it just be air in the lines and needs bleeding?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by PearlJam

Replaced the slave cylinder, and the problem is fixed now. Verified under various city conditions for few days. Thanks Sunny!

I have the exact same problem. No slippage or loss of power. But the occasional judder in cold start at very slow speeds. Goes away in a few seconds.

During the regular 80K service at HASS, the advisor said need to change the entire clutch assembly( clutch and pressure plate, bearings, master and slave cyclinder) he said changing flywheel is optional. I am bit sceptical of this diagnosis. I would like to try out just replacing the slave cylinder and do a bleeding.

Where did you get this done? What Hyundai car? Mine is a Creta diesel.

[Bhuvan]

Originally Posted by m8002?

I have the exact same problem. No slippage or loss of power. But the occasional judder in cold start at very slow speeds. Goes away in a few seconds.

Typical of worn out clutch, 80k for diesel is a sign of your good driving habits.
This will aggravate during cold weather but once warmed up, there will be no sign. I will suggest you to keep driving for now.

Originally Posted by m8002?

the advisor said need to change the entire clutch assembly( clutch and pressure plate, bearings, master and slave cyclinder) he said changing flywheel is optional. I am bit sceptical of this diagnosis. I would like to try out just replacing the slave cylinder and do a bleeding.

All that he has advised is correct except the clutch master cylinder (inflate the bill and complete his target) needs replacement only if there is a loss of brake fluid, change in color of brake fluid, spongy feel, sticky clutch pedal, difficult gear shifts etc.

Just to change the slave cylinder, gear box will be taken out to remove clutch plate and pressure plate. Same thing will happen if you plan to change flywheel, clutch-pressure plates, bearing. Just keep driving for now.

Note: Please refer @PearlJam post, I recently did clutch overhaul and replaced clutch release bearing for Vitara Brezza, was wrongly tagged as slave cylinder by mechanic. I stand corrected for lacking information.

[PearlJam]

Originally Posted by m8002?

During the regular 80K service at HASS, the advisor said need to change the entire clutch assembly( clutch and pressure plate, bearings, master and slave cyclinder) he said changing flywheel is optional. I am bit sceptical of this diagnosis. I would like to try out just replacing the slave cylinder and do a bleeding.

Yes, you can try this first. Mine is a Verna 1.6 CRDI. BTW, 80k is a good enough life for the clutch for our conditions. You might be getting signs of clutch wear, if at all that's happening, if you're a single owner driving your car regularly, and sensitive enough to make out any changes. In which case it might be prudent to change the entire assembly.

Originally Posted by Bhuvan

Just to change the slave cylinder, gear box will be taken out to remove clutch plate and pressure plate.

That's not true. The slave cylinder can be changed in just 15-20 minutes. You can even see the slave cylinder under the hood, atleast for the Verna.

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by Bhuvan

Typical of worn out clutch, 80k for diesel is a sign of your good driving habits.
All that he has advised is correct except the clutch master cylinder (inflate the bill and complete his target) needs replacement only if there is a loss of brake fluid, change in color of brake fluid, spongy feel, sticky clutch pedal, difficult gear shifts etc.

I was mentally prepared to change the clutch and pressure plates given the mileage. But when he added all the others, was not very sure.

I took the car to a FNG for second opinion today. He said the clutch can easily last another 10-20K kms. The pedal is a bit hard and nothing can be done about it. On the juddering, he said unless he sees/experiences it, he doesnt want to suggest or try any work on the assembly. Asked to just continue driving.

Originally Posted by PearlJam

That's not true. The slave cylinder can be changed in just 15-20 minutes. You can even see the slave cylinder under the hood, atleast for the Verna.

This is my understanding as well.

Have decided to revisit this at 90K service or if the symptoms become more severe before that.

[vint]

Hi Guys,
Need some information from the experts here. I had a problem today w.r.t clutch. While driving, I found that the car would take some time to accelerate (slow pickup) and in one of the traffic stops, it refused to move until i pressed accelerator hard, and in the next traffic stop, it failed to move at all. I had to take help of fellow drivers on the road to help put it into a side road so that I can call for towing assistance.

Now once its in the service center, I got a call from the service center representative that the cylinders are a bust and I need to replace them. This had happened just 5 years ago when the cylinders were replaced previously (the car itself is just 8 years old). When I questioned the reason, the service center guy says its due to inactivity and age. And hydraulics cannot be verified during routine maintenance.

For some reason, I find it hard to believe that with less wear and tear (my car usage is quite minimal) , any part can get damaged and that issues like this cannot be detected in maintenance ! Before I engage in further discussions with him, I wanted to understand a few things :

1. What generally causes clutch cylinders (both master/slave) to get damaged ? Is it even remotely possible that they can get damaged due to minimal use ?
2. Once I get the car back, what should I do to check further to make sure the issue is properly fixed ? In the future, is it possible to ask the service guy to check specific things during routine annual maintenance so that I don't end up in this kind of situation ?
3. Is there any way to get it covered in insurance policy ?
4. Is this issue specific to MT , or do AT vehicles are prone to the same issue ?

If it helps, my car is 2016 , elite i20 sportz model.

[vigsom]

Case reported

Water wading leading to noise from the clutch release bearing, resulting in bearing failure and clutch burnout after a few months - this is being reported here so that readers could keep a watch out and prevent similar potential incidents

Details of the car

1. 2013 Honda City
2. Kms done 1,85,000
3. Maintenance- regular
4. First clutch set replaced at 1,40,000km at Honda Authorised Service
4. Major issues faced till date - overheating episode reported here (Honda City | Overheating at times | Diagnosis & solution), damaged radiator cap similar to what was reported here, plus a clutch burnout reported in this post

Symptoms of the latest episode

1. The clutch release bearing was reported making noise since a few months ago, after the car had apparently seen some water wading due to a sudden downpour/roads flooding
2. A couple of days back, the chauffeur of the car reported difficulty in engaging gears at a traffic signal, and somehow managed to slot the car in gear and make it to the office parking

Observations

After shutting the car off, this is what was seen

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ANljVzUiyb0?feature=shared

Actions taken

1. While the car started and the gear was engaged albeit with some difficulty, I recommended the car be towed to a workshop. Luckily, the tow vehicle was parked in the same compound and was available instantly
2. Gearbox was removed at the workshop and the release bearing was found a goner
3. Clutch set had some burn marks but the disc looked quite fine, although worn out
4. Clutch set (Cover, disc and release bearing was replaced)

Lessons

If the release bearing makes noise (heard when the clutch pedal is depressed, but disappears when the clutch pedal is released), have it replaced at the earliest to prevent a potential embarrassing situation. I have seen cars with noisy release bearings go on for several years without a failure, but here, bumper to bumper traffic conditions everyday dealt the death blow.

As is state of the clutch cover and disc after the gearbox was removed


Metal shavings in the bell housing


Release bearing totally "released"; the other bearing, I think, is the clutch pilot bearing (some call it the flywheel bearing)


The clutch disc - did have some residual life but a new set was put in

[ads295]

Please mention the costs involved.

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by ads295

costs involved

The bill was presented only this evening. Here is the info that I got from the owner

1. Clutch set (Cover, disc, release bearing) INR 6500
2. Flywheel bearing INR 650
3. Transmission oil (top up) INR 300
4. Labour INR 3500

[ZMG]

Hi
I recently got my 2004 Honda Citys clutch replaced (except the flywheel) at a team bhp recommended FNG.
I was not having any issue with the previous clutch - but there was some leakage of oil and the fng said it is because of the gear box seal.
When they opened the gear box, they said the clutch is at end of it's life. I had never really felt any slippage or hardness in my clutch prior to this.
However I went ahead with the clutch replacement.
The oil leak was still happening, so then they traced it to valve seal (gasket in the engine I guess).

Now the problem:
My car has become undrivable
It judders so much when releasing the clutch in the first gear.
In bumper to bumper traffic, I cannot crawl anymore without clutch or accelerator input, like I used to earlier.

Also - even in idle, the car is vibrating too much whenever the AC cuts off, it feels like how my earlier Zen used to feel.
The NHV is making me so frustrated, I'm just not able to drive peacefully anymore

Requesting experts help - the fng has said drive the car for 500kms and then we'll see, but I'm not able to drive even 50 kms with these vibrations and judders.

[PearlJam]

Originally Posted by ZMG

the fng has said drive the car for 500kms and then we'll see, but I'm not able to drive even 50 kms with these vibrations and judders.

If you read the many pages in this thread, you'll see the opinion that there's no point waiting for this to settle down, it would only make things worse. A well done clutch job should be completely judder free right from the start. I think you should insist on a fix immediately, and/or consult a more competent garage.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by PearlJam

A well done clutch job should be completely judder free right from the start.

Exactly. Like a new car. that's got a "new" clutch too, but doesn't take time to "settle down."

Sounds to me like mechanic bull excrement!