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Old 10th October 2017, 18:05   #46
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by sagpatel View Post
Can you share details of the pete's dealer in mumbai who remaped your car. As far as I know you have to ship the ECU to them for remap. But a dealer in mumbai would be nice.
Performance Unlimited.
They can perform remap (Pete's) for most unlocked ECUs there and then. My Jetta's ECU unfortunately was locked, so they had to take the ECU out and ship it to Kochi. Took about a week to get the car back.

Their address has changed from Pedder Road to Worli though. They are located here now:

73A Kundanmal Service
Gandhinagar Industrial Estate
Haines Road
Worli
Mumbai - 18

ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!-capture.jpg
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Old 10th October 2017, 18:10   #47
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by Tanveer_2558 View Post
Even the dealer here in Mumbai mostly won't be able to tune your car here itself, He will have to ship the ECU to kochi get it done, Happened with me as well as my friends jetta when he had got it remapped, Which means you will have to arrange another means of transportation for a week atleast, He is located at Peddar road at the famous classic cars petrol pump, Make sure he doesn't charge you for removing and refitting the ECU.

If the stock is 110 bhp, You can expect a power jump till 140- 150 bhp, It will surely make the car very peppy.
Shipping the ECU is a risk i feel, I will give them a visit once i get time and see what they have to say. Is the dealer's name "performance unlimited", if yes then I had a chat earlier and he said we need to ship the ECU to kochi and we are looking at a week's time. He said power bump to 25hp and 50NM torque increase.
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Old 10th October 2017, 18:25   #48
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by sagpatel View Post
Shipping the ECU is a risk i feel, I will give them a visit once i get time and see what they have to say. Is the dealer's name "performance unlimited", if yes then I had a chat earlier and he said we need to ship the ECU to kochi and we are looking at a week's time. He said power bump to 25hp and 50NM torque increase.
Yup, The same guy, Surely a risk but apparently they have been doing it since quite some time now, However call up petes kochi and ask if Vinu would be coming down to mumbai anytime soon, If he is coming down he can get your car done in a matter of a few hours.
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Old 21st October 2017, 15:40   #49
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Post Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

Though many people talk about maps etc. what many people (including so called tuners) don't know is "Variant coding". Because manufacturers mostly use the same powertrain in different combinations, most often they have for this either a parameter or a characteristic line. This means, just by changing this one parameter, you could get different outputs at the wheel.

For example, the manufacturer I work for, just by changing the variant coding of 1 parameter, I can get following outputs.

Option 1 : Parameter = 0 --> 200kW
Option 2 : Parameter = 1 --> 245kW
Option 3 : Parameter = 2 --> 270kW
Option 4 : Parameter = 3 --> 320kW

No maps, no "optimization", no free flow, no headers, no tuning, nothing. But one needs to know what that parameter is.

Spike

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 21st October 2017 at 16:03.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 18:51   #50
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Though many people talk about maps etc. what many people (including so called tuners) don't know is "Variant coding". Because manufacturers mostly use the same powertrain in different combinations, most often they have for this either a parameter or a characteristic line. This means, just by changing this one parameter, you could get different outputs at the wheel.
True. Happens with VW's 2.0 TDI which has several states of tune - 110 Bhp / 140 Bhp / 150Bhp / 170 BHP and 190 Bhp.

Most of their engines including petrols have varying states of tune.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 20:28   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Though many people talk about maps etc. what many people (including so called tuners) don't know is "Variant coding". Because manufacturers mostly use the same powertrain in different combinations, most often they have for this either a parameter or a characteristic line. This means, just by changing this one parameter, you could get different outputs at the wheel.

For example, the manufacturer I work for, just by changing the variant coding of 1 parameter, I can get following outputs.

Option 1 : Parameter = 0 --> 200kW
Option 2 : Parameter = 1 --> 245kW
Option 3 : Parameter = 2 --> 270kW
Option 4 : Parameter = 3 --> 320kW

No maps, no "optimization", no free flow, no headers, no tuning, nothing. But one needs to know what that parameter is.

Spike
I'm sure apart from ECM coding, tyre sizes and gearing play an important part as well
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Old 22nd October 2017, 22:50   #52
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
For example, the manufacturer I work for, just by changing the variant coding of 1 parameter, I can get following outputs.

Option 1 : Parameter = 0 --> 200kW
Option 2 : Parameter = 1 --> 245kW
Option 3 : Parameter = 2 --> 270kW
Option 4 : Parameter = 3 --> 320kW
One parameter changes the output by that much? Thatís quite remarkable! Are you sure this parameter actually changes the output or is it a parameter that needs to be set to indicate a certain output in the first place? (i.e you set this parameter based on the output of the respective engine?)

To be honest, I find it very hard to believe that engines and powertrains would be over dimensioned by this much. We have an other thread where the over dimensioning of engines was discussed. Itís not unusual to be able to get 20-30% out of the same engine with no changes other than a simple parameter change. Iíve never heard of anything this much. What you are saying is that manufacturers put a car/engine on the market that can deliver 60% more output just by a parameter change? That means all the models that donít have this parameter set to 3 are hugely over dimensioned.

could you share some more details on this. What model, what parameter etc?
Thanks.
Jeroen (as usual very sceptical about what he doesnít understand/experienced before)
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Old 23rd October 2017, 00:33   #53
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Option 1 : Parameter = 0 --> 200kW
Option 2 : Parameter = 1 --> 245kW
Option 3 : Parameter = 2 --> 270kW
Option 4 : Parameter = 3 --> 320kW
It should be very easy for the manufacturer to do it. It might be just variant coding or single parameter change for the manufacturer. But that single change should be affecting couple of maps.

I have seen same maps getting repeated several times in ECU. But the values won't be the same. Few of these maps are not even considered by the ECU for performance. I believe there are many such maps and the manufacturer can just switch the maps by this coding. You are absolutely right that most of the tuners have no knowledge about coding and stuff. All they do is find some maps and increase it by some percentage most of the times.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:06   #54
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
One parameter changes the output by that much? Thatís quite remarkable!
Yes, see reply from Dr.Naren, he has answered it pretty much.

Quote:
could you share some more details on this. What model, what parameter etc?
Thanks.
Jeroen
Sorry, those details I cannot share on the forum, the next time you are around Stuttgart, on a weekday, I could show you a live demo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
It should be very easy for the manufacturer to do it. It might be just variant coding or single parameter change for the manufacturer. But that single change should be affecting couple of maps.

I have seen same maps getting repeated several times in ECU. But the values won't be the same.
Yes, it's a chain of events.

Spike
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Old 23rd October 2017, 03:08   #55
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Thumbs up Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
...
Just by changing this one parameter, you could get different outputs at the wheel.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
...
To be honest, I find it very hard to believe that engines and powertrains would be over dimensioned by this much.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
...
Sorry, those details I cannot share on the forum ...
While I share Jeroen's scepticism, I guess you're the expert !

Could you at least state if it's a gasoline or diesel engine, & whether it's NA or turbo ?

If it was a gasoline NA engine, I would, frankly, be flabbergasted !
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Old 23rd October 2017, 06:13   #56
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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just by changing the variant coding of 1 parameter
Perhaps a lame question, why doesn't someone simply replace that variant coding say at a dealership or how hard will it be for someone to replace ECU from a higher output engine variant to a lower? I believe it will still be cheaper than then cost difference manufacturers charge for higher output models. And are you absolutely sure there is no change in Internals like pistons or crank? I remember discussions somewhere, 320i and 328i have very different internal components.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 09:59   #57
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Yes, see reply from Dr.Naren, he has answered it pretty much.
No he hasn’t. He just says:

Quote:
It should be very easy for the manufacturer to do it. It might be just variant coding or single parameter change for the manufacturer. But that single change should be affecting couple of maps.
I know that. I’m doubting how much power increase you can get from the same engine/tranny with a a single parameter change. Or with a complete unique remap for that matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Sorry, those details I cannot share on the forum, the next time you are around Stuttgart, on a weekday, I could show you a live demo.
Do you have a dyno available?

Jeroen

Last edited by ajmat : 23rd October 2017 at 12:50. Reason: Repairing quote Tag
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Old 23rd October 2017, 10:31   #58
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Perhaps a lame question, why doesn't someone simply replace that variant coding say at a dealership or how hard will it be for someone to replace ECU from a higher output engine variant to a lower? I believe it will still be cheaper than then cost difference manufacturers charge for higher output models. And are you absolutely sure there is no change in Internals like pistons or crank? I remember discussions somewhere, 320i and 328i have very different internal components.
I too find it hard to believe that such a huge change can happen from just variant coding, without any internal changes. I know that the 328i and the 320i engines are the same, except for the pistons due to which the compression ratio is also different. Even for BMWs which use the basic N57 engine in the 258, 313 and 380bhp tunes there are a single, twin and tri turbos respectively.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 12:02   #59
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

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Originally Posted by Akshay1234 View Post
I too find it hard to believe that such a huge change can happen from just variant coding, without any internal changes. I know that the 328i and the 320i engines are the same, except for the pistons due to which the compression ratio is also different. Even for BMWs which use the basic N57 engine in the 258, 313 and 380bhp tunes there are a single, twin and tri turbos respectively.
Agree. Yes there are ECU's that store multiple maps. A single parameter allows you to choose which map. Nothing new about this.

I still think this is a case where the ECU is used for multiple (different)versions of an engine. You choose the parameter for the respective engine version. Different engines with different output require a different ECU paramter setting.

Jeroen
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Old 23rd October 2017, 13:27   #60
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Default Re: ECU Remaps : About Tools, Software & Tuners!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Though many people talk about maps etc. what many people (including so called tuners) don't know is "Variant coding". Because manufacturers mostly use the same powertrain in different combinations, most often they have for this either a parameter or a characteristic line. This means, just by changing this one parameter, you could get different outputs at the wheel.

For example, the manufacturer I work for, just by changing the variant coding of 1 parameter, I can get following outputs.

Option 1 : Parameter = 0 --> 200kW
Option 2 : Parameter = 1 --> 245kW
Option 3 : Parameter = 2 --> 270kW
Option 4 : Parameter = 3 --> 320kW

No maps, no "optimization", no free flow, no headers, no tuning, nothing. But one needs to know what that parameter is.

Spike
MB OM 501 engines are available at different tunes from 310-460 HP. Not much mechanical difference and even the ECU (MR) is same. It's a 12L v6 truck engine.
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