[peterjim13]

I had detailed calls with my dad, and also rest of my advisors when it comes to car maintenance, and to add - the thread with advices from fellow bhpians.

On Saturday morning we decided that an engine replace is not the only solution to the problem as Jeroen as well as Dhanush suggested and looking at the duration for which we may use the car - we decided to get the work done ourselves looking at the Turbo Overhaul and then look for issues with the decompression going forth.

Without delay I communicated the same across to Pothens Mahindra service head Vinod, and dropped in a request to Area Service Manager for Mahindra stating that we may not have so much funds to repair the car.

I tried reaching out to the SA but could not get him on his phone

[peterjim13]

Now on 19th February Morning :

I spoke to SA on phone and got to know from him that the engine has been removed from the car.
When I checked with him whether, the head has been removed - he said no.

In about 30 mins I got this call from the ASM stating that the head has been removed, and he asked since they have removed the head, shall we look at replacing the faulty parts on inspection.

I said NO ! and told him about the conversation I had with the SA.

Without delay I drove down to the Service Center to see that


Yes the engine has been removed.



The parts of my car around their garage.



And of course to my shock, the have removed the head from the block. On detailed interaction with the Mechanic, he told me that the Gasket will anyway have to be replaced and told me that we might need to look at the piston rings given that we have removed this up-till here.



I do not have any other option that to get my car mobile the soonest, and now since they have dug it this deep - I assume the piston ring replacement should do the job. However, I assume they may not need the whole 4 sets to be replaced which should be around 18K in total.

But on a detailed interview with the Mechanic - he said there were only 2 areas for the leak - 1 TurboCharger and 2 from the Chains.


You could see the wetness in this area where the leak was. As suggested by Dhanush - still not convincing for a 4.5 litre leak.

The dealer looks like is playing me to make the money out by getting the work done. While I try to convince that I may not have the financial capacity to pay for the bills.

I hope the work would only include the Gaskets, and a pair of Piston Rings.

There was another XUV5OO which is getting an examination done since there was leak from the Chains.

[peterjim13]

Since the engine has been dismantled, it looks like there is no going back ! The dealer played very well, and now I am stuck with a Car without its heart.

I think I have 3 options here. And I will have to make any of the 3 without delay as it will only delay the time the car stays in the garage.

1. Now that since the head has been removed, the dealer could look for each and every single bits and parts and replace them. Without overhauling the engine - however the dealer is not confident in this mode, but this is going to be the cheapest alternative. I am not sure of the effectiveness of this option - in terms of its durability.

2. Engine Overhaul + Turbo Replace. Not keen on this option as the cost would remain the same as that of Half Engine replace.

3. Half Engine replace. This would be the most expensive option, and for me the most credible looking at the finishing of the work and durability. However, even though Mahindra has agreed to bear 25% on Goodwill, it would still cost me about 1.3 Lakhs. But the challenge for me is the finance !

Awaiting your thoughts !

[Motard_Blr]

Your car is already 5 years old. Realistically, how long did you expect to keep the car before you sold it? Just assume that Mahindra gave you a brand new engine free of cost, would you still keep the car beyond your originally planned period? Keep in mind that there are a lot of other parts that also wear out and will need replacing eventually.

My advice would be consider carefully if you want to cut your losses right now and sell the vehicle or do you want to spend more and keep the car for another 5 years. If you do decide to spend on repairs, I advise choosing the half engine. This is the safer option as the overhaul option relies on the skill of machinists to rebore the engine. It's not rocket science but it requires care and experience.

Good luck with whatever decision you make!

[peterjim13]

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

Your car is already 5 years old. Realistically, how long did you expect to keep the car before you sold it?

Yes that was the decisive point or the most important question to which we have found an answer. It looks like we may not use this for anything more than Max 3-4 years.

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

If you do decide to spend on repairs, I advise choosing the half engine. This is the safer option as the overhaul option relies on the skill of machinists to rebore the engine. It's not rocket science but it requires care and experience.

Thanks Motard_Blr, infact Dhanush_s also suggested the same and I think this should have been decided as soon as the dealer notified me of decompression.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Now with this in mind - I communicated across to Mahindra stating my intentions to reduce the cost at the max.

Now that they have already broken the engine up and since they suggested that we do not require an engine overhaul - I called up Mahindra to get the Piston Rings for Cylinder 1 and other mandatory replacements to be included and share the cost.

As a response to my request, the dealer made a budget and post review by Mahindra team - they gave an approx cost of 56K which would include just one set of piston rings - Gaskets and replacing the turbo which would be 30K.

On this to reduce the cost on the turbo - I tried scouting for turbo overhaulers and the 2 TEL (Turbo Energy Limited) authorized sellers and service guys. While the one was shut down for no reason, the other Garuda Turbo - mentioned that TEL does not recommend overhauling VGT turbo which runs XUV5OO. However they said they could do that from their own hands, at a cost of about 7K.

To get this done, I spoke to Mahindra Regional Manager and asked whether I could take the turbo out of the Garage to get the work done. He in turn, asked me whether we could meet at the Dealer office to explain this.
----------------------------------------------

At the office the Mahindra ASM along with the Dealer Service Head explained me what would be the best for my car.

They strongly recommended Turbo Replacement, and replacement of all the piston rings across 4 cylinders along with Gaskets, Oil Separator etc. This is in turn of an engine overhaul as according to Mahindra this would be as good as an overhaul after inspecting the Pistons, Block, Bore etc. Mahindra agreed to take 25% of the cost on Goodwill while the dealer would provide 5% on labour and 10% on something else (which is not major). The toal work which is estimated to be around 90K will come down to 63K for me.


^Note that the above estimation was not the one which they used during the discussion, it somehow had a total cost of 90K. I shall get that from the dealer and see what was the change.

I still have about 14K in my 1 Lakh service, along with replacement of Break Pads and Discs (they insist on all 4 of them - though I know that just the ones in front would do.).

On top of this, I might have to bear the regular Engine Oil, Power Steering Oil, Oil Filter, Air Filter, Coolant, + 2 more.
And of course the Break Pads + Discs which forms the work under critical category.

The cost should be around 100K now, but without so much deliberation the ASM, came forward and said that he is going to give the whole work on the engine excluding the BrakePads + Discs at 50% the cost. Which came out as a shock, as I felt Mahindra as a company or thanks to Mr. Ramesh Kumar who almost stood by me in this case. It looks like the cost would be about 50K.

I had no option but to accept it, and he also mentioned that this is the maximum that Mahindra could do. The Director of Pothens who also runs Honda, Hyundai and Tata Dealerships in Trivandrum joined my meeting and agreed to take ownership of the work.

They said the replaced parts would obviously have 6 months warranty, and the Dealer also assured of owning their work. It might take a couple of weeks for the parts to reach the dealership, but it looks like this is it.

Even though there are a lot of questions unanswered, I will still keep my fingers crossed on the work.

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by peterjim13

Even though there are a lot of questions unanswered, I will still keep my fingers crossed on the work.

I think the dealer no longer can make a quick buck and you got your job sorted out. Surprised at this level of Dealer commitment though. Not seen with other manufacturers. Maruti may be.

Anyhow glad you got it sorted out. Wish you many more miles with the Silver Cheethah (thats what you call it right?)

[Dr.Naren]

I had faced similar issue in my SX4 1.3 MJD. There was only 800 ML oil left. But I did get low oil pressure warning light. Maruti dealer had done compression test and adviced to overhaul engine. But, I got only piston rings changed. Engine head work was also done. Now the car has run more than 40k km after piston rings change. All the service centres would push for maximum repairs. We need to opt for only what is required .

[peterjim13]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

I think the dealer no longer can make a quick buck and you got your job sorted out. Surprised at this level of Dealer commitment though. Not seen with other manufacturers. Maruti may be.

Anyhow glad you got it sorted out. Wish you many more miles with the Silver Cheethah (thats what you call it right?)

Thanks Dhanush. Yes Silver Cheetah indeed - I had mentioned this on my tweets to Anand Mahindra.

Yes, looking at a car post warranty, Mahindra has been doing their best for me.

And top of it, as you and Jeroen suggested, this would have all got cleared if I just overhauled my Turbo. Now since we have got this far - just learned the lesson the hard way. I am sure I would have been literally stuck if it was any other manufacturer - I am very curious as my other car is a Ford.

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

I got only piston rings changed. Engine head work was also done. Now the car has run more than 40k km after piston rings change. All the service centres would push for maximum repairs. We need to opt for only what is required

Good to know Dr Naren. Thats comforting,

In this case, due to my lack of understanding - I let ample time for the dealer to knock down the engine before I said no.

Shall keep this in mind !

[dhanushmenon]

I had a peculiar issue and yet with similar dispositions with the engine work. During my drive to Ladakh in Sep 2017, I started noticing black smoke from both my exhausts. (Probably, it was already there when I was at sea level. But I noticed it only when the oxygen levels reduced and the engine was pushed to flex its muscles).
We were in a convoy of cars and the car who tailed me almost always had his face on a frown. I did a thorough check up at the service centre at Leh. Changed the engine oil and also the engine oil filter with some glimmer of hope; however which was soon realised to be misplaced.

After contributing much soot to the environs of the serene mountains, I returned after the trip. Back at sea levels, the black smoke reduced however, it was well perceptible. I rushed to TVS Mahindra, Maradu, Kochi. The car was admitted with them for two weeks. When it came out after thinning my pockets by 8k, the some was missing for a few days. Within three days of respite, it surfaced again; only this time it was white. Some more days, it turned pale, then brown and then grey. So, within a month, the smoke was back to black again and now it was jet black and thick.

I spoke with a Service Manager at TVS Mahindra Kochi and he said he will need the car to be left with them for defect identification and analysis. I agreed and handed over the car once more to them (neither did I have much choices too). Two days later, I get a heart rendering call from them spelling out the pain that I will go through in future.

The engine piston rings had worn off and therefore the engine oil had started to seep in to the fuel. The fuel mixture in the combustion chamber therefore was contaminated with the engine oil and therefore the black smoke. The more Kilometres it ran, the more the damage. They did not give me an estimate and said it can be ascertained only after completely dismantling the engine. Associated components, gasket, bore, cylinder etc might have been damaged and estimate could be given only after that.

Since I knew a trust worthy friend in Mahindra, I agreed. I was sure that I will be able to battle the deal if they try to milk me unfairly.

[peterjim13]

Last week - Wednesday 7th March, the SA called me said the work has been completed, and invited me to do a test drive.

I reached Pothens and was greeted by the Owner, Service Head and briefed me about the work they have done.

They mentioned that all the work was done as per company spec and only work in terms of what could be called as overhaul would be the lathe work on the block (probably where the crankshaft sits) it seems this is mandatory - while rest of the work was all replacement.

I did a very short test drive of about 4-5 KM or less - where I was accompanied by Mr. Ajay the owner of Pothens, The service head and the chief mechanic - who headed the work. I could not notice anything different except for the fact that the engine is a bit louder (a bit) than the last time I remember listening to it. The mechanic mentioned that this could be there for a minimum of 100 - 500 KM to get the new parts in tune as this could be as good as a new engine.

Another thing to notice was a light - yet easily recognizable noise while accelerating. This again the mechanic mentioned about something (which i do not remember now / couldnt find on google also) - which is withing the engine which would adjust itself as it is hydraulic. Which means this may not be there beyond some usage or KMs on the ODO.

The car now stands on 97,500 and they asked me to get the car back in the next 1000 for just a check up. Silver now runs brand new TEL Turbochargers, new brake pads - I just got the discs polished - I shall change them in the next 10K or some.

The dealer also gave me free AC evaporator cleaning - using some liquid - which shockingly has increased the AC efficiency. I do not remember switching on the rear AC (*which I usually use for quick cooling of the cabin) even with passengers in the second row.

The new brake pads on the rear wheels now are in red - which looks sporty. I shall use this thread to post updates on the maintenance and my experience post the work, as I think that would surely add value.

Originally Posted by dhanushmenon

The engine piston rings had worn off and therefore the engine oil had started to seep in to the fuel. The fuel mixture in the combustion chamber therefore was contaminated with the engine oil and therefore the black smoke.

This happened to be my case as well - but no major catastrophe inside the engine. They only found a not so good piston ring in cylinder 1.

Originally Posted by dhanushmenon

Since I knew a trust worthy friend in Mahindra, I agreed. I was sure that I will be able to battle the deal if they try to milk me unfairly.

Is it done, or is you car still there with TVS.
-------

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by peterjim13

Last week - Wednesday 7th March, the SA called me said the work has been completed, and invited me to do a test drive.

I reached Pothens and was greeted by the Owner, Service Head and briefed me about the work they have done.

They mentioned that all the work was done as per company spec and only work in terms of what could be called as overhaul would be the lathe work on the block (probably where the crankshaft sits) it seems this is mandatory - while rest of the work was all replacement.

I did a very short test drive of about 4-5 KM or less

The car now stands on 97,500 and they asked me to get the car back in the next 1000 for just a check up. Silver now runs brand new TEL Turbochargers, new brake pads - I just got the discs polished - I shall change them in the next 10K or some.

Its nice to see that your XUV is back on the road & munching the miles. Please monitor the oil consumption level after the rebuild. AFAIK Mahindra recommends a 20000km interval for oil change, I would suggest you to get the engine oil replaced every 10000km. Anyways the XUV has a 10000km service interval, so the car will have to visit the service center every 10000km & I believe an engine oil change for XUV isn't that expensive.

[peterjim13]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

Its nice to see that your XUV is back on the road & munching the miles. Please monitor the oil consumption level after the rebuild. AFAIK Mahindra recommends a 20000km interval for oil change, I would suggest you to get the engine oil replaced every 10000km. Anyways the XUV has a 10000km service interval, so the car will have to visit the service center every 10000km & I believe an engine oil change for XUV isn't that expensive.

Thats noted, just to make it a habit, it has been less than 100 KM since the rebuild and the engine oil is yet to turn black - as I could only see wetness when wiped with a tissue on the level- indicator.

Yes Mahindra service book says 20,000 for oil change, the user manual says 6000. I think for me the key would be to monitor it going forth - which I should have done before.

[peterjim13]

Now on about 12 days post I received my car, i have clocked about 600KM on the ODO.

Though my initial less than 100 KM was on highways, a few preliminary observation exclusively assessing the engine area.

1. The engine is a bit louder of course, a bit i mean. ASC mentioned that it may be due to the new parts, being installed / replaced.
2. A clearly audible noise on acceleration. Which again as mentioned by the ASC stating that it is due to the hydraulic tapets which should auto adjust on prolonged use.

Despite the above, nothing was visible / audible on the car.

I drove the car down to my hometown in wayanad which is about 300 KM from COchin, and has been regularly using it since.

Throughout the drive, i have been noticing some clear turbo lag, especially on 2 and 3 gears.

This was evident on the Wayanad Ghats, where I typically use 2 or 3 gears throughout till hair pin 8 (from bottom), this time it was the job of 1 and 2 - with AC on and off at times.

I could feel significant lack of power in need and could feel the same on uphill / curves throughout.

My house is on top of a hill which has a steep climb for about 50 meters and has been a yard stick on the performance of any car I have driven (looking at hill climbing skills). Here i could feel that this is not normal, not even on par with the engine which had low compression on one cylinder.

I am getting my compression checked here through a 3rd party.

Can I measure my power output / turbo lag from workshops ?

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by peterjim13

Can I measure my power output / turbo lag from workshops ?

Not unless They have a rolling road or similar.
First things first, get it hooked up to a proper OBD scanner, preferably an model specific one and see what error codes it throws.

Jeroen

[peterjim13]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

First things first, get it hooked up to a proper OBD scanner, preferably an model specific one and see what error codes it throws.

So this would probably be the one with the Dealer. I had used this to diagnose any issues with the AC ECU. I assume, the engine diagnosis is through a separate scanner. ?