[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by peterjim13

So this would probably be the one with the Dealer. I had used this to diagnose any issues with the AC ECU. I assume, the engine diagnosis is through a separate scanner. ?

Yes a dealer would have it. You might find others with a generic scan tool. That's good as well, better than none. Anything major will most likely show on a generic scan, but a specific one will show more detail.

Any OBD scanner will typically scan not just the ECU but will look at all the various computers and if there is anything amiss will flag an error code.
Even if there are no error codes presents, it helps to know, as you can start looking for stuff that doesnt throw error codes. E.g. a clogged airfilter.

BR Jeroen

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by peterjim13

Throughout the drive, i have been noticing some clear turbo lag, especially on 2 and 3 gears.
This was evident on the Wayanad Ghats, where I typically use 2 or 3 gears throughout till hair pin 8 (from bottom), this time it was the job of 1 and 2 - with AC on and off at times.
I could feel significant lack of power in need and could feel the same on uphill / curves throughout.

It seems that your engine's low end torque has reduced. Though I am not technically qualified as to why this is happening, I believe after an overhaul the low end torque should increase, not decrease or at least stay the same. In 2013, our 99 Omni had to go through an engine overhaul, we did go the half engine way as it was cheap. I took delivery after the engine swap, the first thing I noticed was that the low end torque had improved considerably, while higher up the rev range I couldn't find a noticeable difference.

Then in 2016 our Punto MJD's engine was dying (all of our engines seem to wear out quickly), even here I noticed a slight decrease in low end torque & a more pronounced turbo lag. This time we didn't go for an overhaul & instead sold her, so I have no idea as to how she would have behaved after an overhaul. I would advice you to consult an expert & if possible drive a different XUV500. It may be possible that after completing running in of your new engine, performance will improve.

[peterjim13]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

I would advice you to consult an expert & if possible drive a different XUV500.

Yes, I am bringing my car down to the dealer this April mid - which should be about 1K on the ODO post overhaul. I will have to check the difference on a similar XUV5OO.

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

It may be possible that after completing running in of your new engine, performance will improve.

How does this work ? What do you mean by "completing running in?"

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by peterjim13

How does this work ? What do you mean by "completing running in?"

Well, I tried to mean that a new engine needs some time to "run in" before it delivers its full potential. After we buy a new car, we tend to "run in" the car for a few 1000 kilometers (though it is said that running in isn't required for modern cars) before the engine settles down & things like FE improve. Even the last car we bought, an Ecosport diesel performed slightly better & the FE improved after a running of 1000 km or so.

As your engine has been overhauled, after a few 1000 km of running, the engine parts might settle down better & the performance could improve. Still, I think the power loss you are facing is on the higher side even with a new engine.

[peterjim13]

Recently, almost a few weeks back, I got a call / message from Mr. Prashant from Pune about a similar issue he faced with his per-worshiped XUV5OO.

This gave me a feeling of what could have happened to my car if I had driven my car further. However, again in his case the customer care / dealer couldnt identify the cause given that the engine rebuild was recommended within a few months of the recent service.

Sharing his note below as I feel - it would help him. He has been asking me to post this as his membership to tbhp is still pending.

His detailed experience has been mentioned on the email here. And this email was based on the dealers diagnosis.

Email from the service manager based on his request after they recommended an overhaul

Dear Mr. Arora,

This is in refernece to your vehicle XUV 5OO bearing reg no. ----- reported to our workshop for concern of abnormal noise coming from engiene side and further our discusion.

As explained to you, at the receipt of your vehicle there was no coolant level found in reservor and on further inspection it is observed that the rubber hose related to coolant circuit was found cracked leading to coolant leakage. For further inspection, it is recoommeded to dismantle engine to know extent of the damages and to provide you tentative repair estimate for the same. As discussed with you, vehicle is equipped with high temperature indicator with notification beep, same would have been triggred during runing conditon of the vehicle.

You are requested to approve us to go ahead further for engine dismantling to provide you necessary repair estimate.

For any further query, feel free to contact undersigned.

Regards,
General Manager - Service
Sahyadri Motors, Wakad

He wanted to take this up with Mahindra, and I think the tag is close to 1.5 lakhs, I feel he has his car still lying idle at home - with engine oil topped up. He asked for my help in getting this forwarded to tbhp for advise and see if there is anything that could be done through Mahindra.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Prashant Arora <>
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2018 at 1:40 AM
Subject: Fwd: Abnormal sound in Engine HR10T6070
To: CUSTOMERCARE <customercare@mahindra.com>, <>

Hello Team,
This is to share my recent experience and issue with my XUV 500 (July 2012). While below are the details but this note is to draw your attention on a potential malfunctioning in the vehicle and unsatisfactory response form the authorized service center.

During my recent trip to city, I have noticed blinking of the overheat indicator which went off when I have halt my car for 15-20 minutes during my commute and again after resuming my drive, the warning of Low Engine Oil Pressure showed up intermittently. It was a blinking light came a couple of times and again went off. I have again stopped the car and called the service center (Shayadri Motors, Wakad Pune) and was advised that if the light was blinking and went off, I could drive the car slowly for a few KM and if the light is constant on the cluster, then I must stop the car immediately. Worried enough I stopped the car, turned off the engine and waited for about an hour for them to send somebody to check. After a long wait when I started the car again the warning was not there and I drove the car for 2.3 km to reach the service center.

After the inspection, the report came to me is in the thread below with a recommendation to dismantle the engine.

My concerns and questions are:
1. Despite of well maintaining the car, why this has happened specially the car has only covered 42000 km and about 5.5 years old?
2. Why there was no signal / warning on coolant, check engine came neither the overheat signal came again?
3. As the diagnosis is potential engine damage, I am concerned that could this have been due to parts malfunctioning (oil pump and coolant hose/pipe were the issues in July 2012 models)?

There is a lot of money, care and love given to this vehicle and M&M claims that this is equipped with many smart features then why those features didn't come to save a potential engine damage, is my biggest worry.

So far all I heard from the ASC was this has happened due to normal wear & tear but to highlight, I had the 40000 km service done at the same ASC in January this year and after that the car has just ran another 500 km why any such potential issues/ risks were not diagnosed then?

On top of this, I have received mixed information from the ASC some of them are:
- Its an engine seize and require half-engine replacement
- Dismantle the engine to identify the actual damage
- Run as is with knocking noise but maintain the coolant and oil level

These have given me doubts about the capability of the engineers at the mentioned ASC hence I request involvement from Mahindra directly to investigate the root cause and suggest the best and economical solution.

Also, would like to highlight, I have asked a couple of times to check the ODI logs to see what warnings came and what didnt but that never happened but the flat recommendation was to dismantle the engine. Didnt get the name and number of the Regional Customer Care Manager despite of my multiple requests to the ASC Managers /Supervisor.

I and many of my blood relatives have trusted Mahindra for the vehicles and the best in class customer support since years and with the same hope I am writing this note.

Looking forward to your response and attention on this matter.

I essentially did a rebuild as the dealer knocked down the engine without my consent.

On top of everything I feel there could be something with the particular batch of vehicles. Worst part is, the service guys couldnt even check engine levels.

Guys see if anyone can be of help, I shall convey your response across to him until he gets into tbhp

[peterjim13]

Attaching images to show the coolant hose damage and drained coolant

[peterjim13]

A quick update here, the car was with my dad for quite some time now, and he had recently mentioned about a noise, especially while idling the car after drives. He mentioned something similar to howling and he had taken the car to ERAM motors in Calicut.

To our surprise the staff mentioned that there is a component which is a part of turbo and should have been replaced while the turbo was being replaced - do not recollect the name (as I was not there during the repair & have not seen the bill as yet). But it is something like a vaccuum pump - according to the technician this would have affected the performance of the turbo - as this is critical for the optimal performance of the turbo. I could see that this could be the suspect of visible turbo lag.

Though the SA claimed that the performance is normal, I am yet to see whether the performance has got back to par.

In the meanwhile - my ICE is also getting its Silver Box replaced - and it will cost me a whopping 20K.

[mpksuhas]

Originally Posted by peterjim13

He mentioned something similar to howling and he had taken the car to ERAM motors in Calicut.

Is it vacuum modulator ? It produces a whilisting sound on going kaput. However, in XUV you should be getting 'Check Engine' light if this is the culprit.

[peterjim13]

Originally Posted by mpksuhas

Is it vacuum modulator ? It produces a whilisting sound on going kaput. However, in XUV you should be getting 'Check Engine' light if this is the culprit.

Vaccum Modulator of course, just replaced it. As the engine - turbo etc are brand new - post overhaul.

[mpksuhas]

Originally Posted by peterjim13

Vaccum Modulator of course, just replaced it.

Glad to know that it got fixed.

That said, I don't think this issue is related to your engine overhaul. Vacuum modulator is known to go kaput in XUV easily.

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by peterjim13

Compression Value (dry test)

1st Cylinder 380psi (low)
2nd Cylinder 420psi
3rd Cylinder 400psi
4th Cylinder 400psi

Standard value 400psi to 440psi>

What is done is done, you cannot go back, but hence forth note that in such cases, the issue with the part consuming oil (Turbo charger here ) should be rectified first.
The sump should be removed, and connecting bearing caps checked for loosening, if ok you can refit it with new sump gasket.
Then the compression should be checked again with new oil in the engine. It usually goes up by about 5 to 10%, if a piston ring has lost its tention due to hot running, it can regain it in a few 1000 kms. First few 1000 km may have some oil consumption, which should reduce, as ring tention improves.
Next oil change should be done after half the recommended mileage, if there are particulates in the oil plan on selling the car, if all is ok compression will also have improved by then.

Always note that inspite of all warnings and electronic check devices, oil and water level has to be checked every morning.

Rahul

[peterjim13]

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

What is done is done, you cannot go back, but hence forth note that in such cases, the issue with the part consuming oil (Turbo charger here ) should be rectified first.

I must admit that I had let the dealer play on my car due to my ignorance - and fell for the constant fear that the dealer created - making me believe that - its is the end of my cars life.

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

The sump should be removed, and connecting bearing caps checked for loosening, if ok you can refit it with new sump gasket.
Then the compression should be checked again with new oil in the engine. It usually goes up by about 5 to 10%, if a piston ring has lost its tention due to hot running, it can regain it in a few 1000 kms. First few 1000 km may have some oil consumption, which should reduce, as ring tention improves.
Next oil change should be done after half the recommended mileage, if there are particulates in the oil plan on selling the car, if all is ok compression will also have improved by then.

As I end up being the most ill fated bhpian in terms of durability of the vehicle I use - my Ecosport is also waiting to have its head removed to look at probable piston / bore damages which showed a pretty low compression at 2 cylinders with 57K on the ODO.

With just 6 month out of warranty, the Service Head has come forward to get it to the right track and have some goodwill support from FORD.

Do you think this could be the challenge with my Ecosport as well - here based on what the SH has arrived at - no external leaks have been identified, but there has been a bit of black smoke recently and had also found some blue smoke amidst morning cold start.

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by peterjim13

I must admit that I had let the dealer play on my car due to my ignorance - and fell for the constant fear that the dealer created - making me believe that - its is the end of my cars life.

They always do so, and so I always kept my cars away from dealers the day warranty expired. They also refuse to accept the existance of a seprate heavy usage service manual for cars that run more than 50000 km a year.

Originally Posted by peterjim13

As I end up being the most ill fated bhpian in terms of durability of the vehicle I use - my Ecosport is also waiting to have its head removed to look at probable piston / bore damages which showed a pretty low compression at 2 cylinders with 57K on the ODO.

Has the engine ever over heated or run with low oil level.

Originally Posted by peterjim13

With just 6 month out of warranty, the Service Head has come forward to get it to the right track and have some goodwill support from FORD.

They always do so, managed to get goodwill warranty for a friends 2 Yr 1.1 Lakh done Skoda Rapid.

Originally Posted by peterjim13

Do you think this could be the challenge with my Ecosport as well - here based on what the SH has arrived at - no external leaks have been identified, but there has been a bit of black smoke recently and had also found some blue smoke amidst morning cold start.

Black smoke can have many sources, most common a clogged cataytic converter. Is your oil level dropping, if it is it can be an issue. Many Ecosport engines have done 2 Lakh + untouched.
get an FNG to clean your converter, then drive 300 km and have a look.
Of 19 cars I've owned till date, all except one did more than 2 Lakh km.
First Lakh in my hands then with my sales team or service team. Best was surprisingly an Indica which did 3.24 Lakh on original engine, and sold at an Decent price of Rs 80,000.

Rahul

[peterjim13]

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

Has the engine ever over heated or run with low oil level.

No over heating for sure, but I once had a low oil pressure alarm one day and it vanished - I topped the engine with sufficient Oil - almost 2 litres or more. Then I have been tracking the consumption levels frequently - and realized the high consumption levels.

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

They always do so, managed to get goodwill warranty for a friends 2 Yr 1.1 Lakh done Skoda Rapid.

Fingers Crossed here.

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

Black smoke can have many sources, most common a clogged cataytic converter.

They had done this check if I am not wrong - shall reconfirm.

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

Is your oil level dropping, if it is it can be an issue. Many Ecosport engines have done 2 Lakh + untouched.

Oil level is of course dropping way beyond the accepted level. But the Black smoke is not so regular - you will only get them on heavy acceleration on idling - I do not usually get smoke on start up.

Post decarbonizing the level has come down further.

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

get an FNG to clean your converter, then drive 300 km and have a look.

Let me see if I have room for this.

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

Of 19 cars I've owned till date, all except one did more than 2 Lakh km.
First Lakh in my hands then with my sales team or service team. Best was surprisingly an Indica which did 3.24 Lakh on original engine, and sold at an Decent price of Rs 80,000.

Good to know, our old Indica DLS did 1.4 lakhs without any work on the engine and sold for 2.4 Lakhs post 7 years of use. But the fate has not been the same for the other 2 cars we use, while everyone recommended to sell both the cars, we couldn't looking at the additional hit on the pocket - as well as the emotional attachment to these vehicles.

[peterjim13]

UPDATE:

After about a month or more since the "Vaccum Modulator" has been replaced - I got to drive my car back home and a huge sigh of relief as my car drives like before - and that was quite a feel as I had kept my fingers crossed since the rebuild.

I think this was essentially because of the MASS in Cochin (Pothen's) lack of experience with Mahidnra vehicles or their lack of attention to detail as they never checked the Vaccum Modulator during the rebuild.

In the meantime - my dad also identified two other issues and has shared this for replacement.

Siren Assembly

He found the siren assembly hanging out from the car and had taken it to the ERAM Motors - MASS. Now this has to be replaced - and since they did not have this on stock - they have ordered it now.

ICE
ICE has been showing issues with Maps, Playing Music and reading USBs. Dropped them at a Kenwood service center at Calicut and they have taken the Silver Box and the Display out and we are getting a replacement.

I wouldnt have done this at this stage. The replacement costs about 20 K now.