[SansGT]

Originally Posted by gopalsunny

I assume the regeneration happened the first time around because there were no warning lights on the dashboard

Ideally when you drive for half an hour at high speeds, the regeneration should be complete. Are you trying with enough fuel in your tank? Normally, during regeneration, increased quantity of diesel is consumed to enable the burning of soot (the same reason why your FE dropped in the first case). This is the reason some manufacturers do not trigger regeneration if fuel tank is not filled to certain level (again, I have read this somewhere. Not sure if completely true). You can try the regeneration process with a full tank.

[Nikhil Beke]

Originally Posted by SansGT

I feel this is absurd and asked for clarification on the same. Also, I have enquired about the price of DPF replacement. Let's see if they respond to that.

Have you heard back from the Ford? I wrote them asking nearly the same question, they have just directed me back to the dealership who just ask me to drive on the highway (practically not possible in daily routine all the time).

[SansGT]

Originally Posted by Nikhil Beke

Have you heard back from the Ford? I wrote them asking nearly the same question, they have just directed me back to the dealership who just ask me to drive on the highway (practically not possible in daily routine all the time).

No. They didn't reply back to that query. I still feel there is lack of education about emission control systems among manufacturer personnel and service advisors in India.

[Nikhil Beke]

I still feel there is lack of education about emission control systems among manufacturer personnel and service advisors in India.

That's quite sad, really: I'm in dilemma- whether to cancel my booking for Ford Freestyle 1.5L TDCi, an otherwise fantastic vehicle that fulfills all my requirements, but for this lack of clarity on this issue. It's quite difficult to own a diesel vehicle honestly, howsoever amazing it might be otherwise, if I'm not sure whether it would be able to work the next day!

[gopalsunny]

Originally Posted by SansGT

Ideally when you drive for half an hour at high speeds, the regeneration should be complete. Are you trying with enough fuel in your tank? Normally, during regeneration, increased quantity of diesel is consumed to enable the burning of soot (the same reason why your FE dropped in the first case). This is the reason some manufacturers do not trigger regeneration if fuel tank is not filled to certain level (again, I have read this somewhere. Not sure if completely true). You can try the regeneration process with a full tank.

I tried with full tank but the process did not work. Have contacted the service center again, they said they will have a look.

However, one of my biggest concerns is that the service center doesn't seem to have an answer, solution or a probable solution in this matter. They seem to be completely unaware of the working of the internals which is surprising.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Nikhil Beke

That's quite sad, really: I'm in dilemma- whether to cancel my booking for Ford Freestyle 1.5L TDCi, an otherwise fantastic vehicle that fulfills all my requirements, but for this lack of clarity on this issue. It's quite difficult to own a diesel vehicle honestly, howsoever amazing it might be otherwise, if I'm not sure whether it would be able to work the next day!

I think you shouldn't worry too much about this. DPF issues were reported world wide earlier and over time they have been resolved in various ways by different manufacturers based on the issues. Here for the Tata, I believe it's their usual electronics issues which they are fond of having in their cars.

We have entered the world of DPF, Adblue, LNT quite recently compared to other countries and given the average knowledge of the after sales guys as well as the customer care, you cant expect detailed explanations for such queries. Like they say, under normal running conditions, the DPF is expected to last as long as the life of the vehicle. Normal running condition is where the DPF would fill up to a capacity and would be naturally regenerated during the driving time itself. What wouldn't be normal is if the fuel is bad(you only get BS6 grade diesel now in most bunks in India AFAIK), and your driving is always short distances which will never give the DPF a chance to regenerated on its own. What is also not good is if the DPF reaches a level where it has to be forcibly regenerated. This I am sure isn't good to be done frequently. Hence, the more such abnormal conditions occur, the more are the chances of a DPF failure. As long as that doesnt happen, things should be fine.

My Innova has done close to 8k kms now, and never once have I got a message to regenerate the DPF. It has always been done during the course of driving itself. So just stick to the max warranty available, and if at all there are real defects in the system you can always get a replacement. If something happens beyond this, then it's either the life of the system itself, or bad luck.

[gopalsunny]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

a) Last successful regeneration
b) How long did the last regeneration run
c) Time elapsed since last full regeneration
d) No. of unsuccessful regeneration attempts
e) Aborted regeneration

I had a long discussion with the TATA team and they were not keen on providing the exact details but here are the answers.

a) A couple of days back when they tried it after connecting to the ECU
b) 25-30 minutes
c) no data
d) None - they claimed that the regeneration was happening perfectly fine
e) None

Originally Posted by audioholic

I think you shouldn't worry too much about this. DPF issues were reported world wide earlier and over time they have been resolved in various ways by different manufacturers based on the issues. Here for the Tata, I believe it's their usual electronics issues which they are fond of having in their cars.

This is right on the point, one of the key issues they have pointed to is that the ECU is not removing the DPF/Check Engine warnings even after successful regeneration which is keeping the car in limp home mode. This sounds a lot like software issue than a mechanical one. They mentioned that they removed the errors from the ECU and I shouldn't be facing an issue again.

I think the intent behind the technology is good but the implementation seems to have been messed up. Some of the things I learnt along the way.

1) It seems that there is no way to detach DPF filter from the exhaust system(for Altroz) - If this were to be true then there is no way to get the DPF cleaned mechanically and the cost of replacement will be very high
2) It is better to keep away from cars/variants(mass market) which sell less.
3) I have enquired about the in-tank additives for keeping the DPF clean but there seems to be a aversion for this idea and I was strictly advised not to do this.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by gopalsunny

1) It seems that there is no way to detach DPF filter from the exhaust system(for Altroz) - If this were to be true then there is no way to get the DPF cleaned mechanically and the cost of replacement will be very high
2) It is better to keep away from cars/variants(mass market) which sell less.
3) I have enquired about the in-tank additives for keeping the DPF clean but there seems to be a aversion for this idea and I was strictly advised not to do this.

So my guess was right. Tata and electronics has never been a good story till date. The DPF would be mostly supplied by a reputed company which would be doing across brands and countries. But to clarify your other points:
1. DPF is like another catalytic converter. It is a part of the exhaust and would be a sealed unit. Like the catcon, even DPF cant be removed. It can only be accessed by cutting the exhaust open. Thats the case in all cars.
2. Small cars and DPF is a new topic entirely in the industry. Hence many manufacturers decided to ditch diesel engines for small cars. I think its a good move. But here, I think its an inherent issue with TATA that they cant get their niggles sorted and not an issue with DPF.
3. There are no fuel additives as far as I know for DPF. All you can do is use fuel from reputed bunks, avoid excessive short commutes, and also avoid lugging the engine with full throttle in case you drive a manual car.

[Rahulinthecity]

Hello , I am fairly new to diesel engines. I have some noob queries.
How long does it take for the yellow light to flash in city traffic ? Approximately will it flash after burning through say 40 litres of diesel ?
Let's say I drive daily to office and back covering a total distance of 16 km daily with no highway usage . Average speed would be about 30km/hr. How soon will I see the yellow lights flashing.
If I keep a diesel car parked in my garage for 2 weeks , will I need to top up DPF as soon as I start the car ? Does the level reduce over a period of time or is it only a factor of how much diesel I burn irrespective of the time it takes to burn them ..weeks days months..
These are absolutely noob queries , but I am planning to go with a diesel car , but from what I read diesel cars seem to become a real headache if I am not able to include a few highway runs every month.

[ags82]

Has anyone used DPF cleaners? Appreciate if you could share your experience here.

[rd18]

Originally Posted by gopalsunny

Hi Everyone,

I have been reading a couple of threads on the forum and kind of tried various things after my car(Altroz Diesel) threw the DPF warning accompanied with Check Engine Light. Though I have not noticed a drop in the performance of the car, I did notice a drop in mileage when I first encountered the problem a month back.

Was completely unaware of DPF issues(or rather behavior) in BS6 engines, until it made an appearance in my Altroz Diesel at around 2250 km.
Before that only remember, glancing over this icon in Owner's Manual.

Either I failed to notice lamp first time, or DPF lamp to "Engine Malfunction" lamp very quick. Yes, should have picked up sudden mileage drop symptom.

Having gone through the forum, I was found guilty of short city drives and not revving the engine enough (engine run-in period & FE mindset).

Originally Posted by gopalsunny

During the first case, I tried DPF re-generation suggested by the manual and eventually the warning light disappeared, however after that Check Engine Light started behaving weird, it comes on for sometime, disappears and then reappears out of the blue. During the whole process, neither the performance nor the mileage took a hit. It was only my anxiety which drove me to visit the nearest TATA service station.

Things were going well until yesterday, after the first incident, I drove my car for around 1200 Kms.

I am not sure, what to check or how to proceed further. The DPF light is still on along with the Check Engine Light, the car wouldn't go above 2500rpm or 70km/hr in 3rd gear .

yes, this is true. I thought I will try the solution given in Owners Manual but car won't climb even 2000 rpm(even in 4th and 5th gears).

Discarded attempt and went straight to nearest Tata Motors dealer in Pune than the dealer I purchased car from (Chakan). Wanted to avoid driving long with "Engine Malfunction" lamp ON. They said it was at 'level 2'(means can't clean by self) and "fixed" it using laptop, and this has been only 2 days. fingers crossed!

And yes, the low mileage all of a sudden was surely a signal. Had no idea that it was due to DPF, and now will use the solution proposed here. "Italian tune-up from time to time and some long drives."

Having said that, this is going to stick on the back of the mind always and as a new owner, people need to be aware of this behavior in BS6 diesel engines.

Moderators - If this can be linked to Altroz Diesel official review thread, it will help prospective buyers.

[sbm]

Can someone please clarify what would be considered a short running. I live in an industrial township and daily drives from my residence to the plant are 10kms each way with a 40kmph speed limit for 5kms. I can rev the engine for the first 5kms but not after that. There is no traffic congestion and roads are wide. Will these driving conditions cause DPF clogging? I also do long trips thrice an year and a couple of 100km trips every two months. I am finding it difficult to decide between Creta diesel and petrol.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by sbm

- what would be considered a short running.
- I can rev the engine for the first 5kms but not after that.
- Will these driving conditions cause DPF clogging?
- I also do long trips thrice an year and a couple of 100km trips every two months.
- I am finding it difficult to decide between Creta diesel and petrol and this Dpf issue is very confusing.

- there is no definite explanation, but its mainly about driving in a way that the revs are high and exhaust temperature high enough for the soot to burn off from the DPF(called passive regen). I am assuming it requires at least 40-60 mins(depending on the DPF capacity and level of clogging) of maintaining highway speeds at a higher rpm than usual at least a week but like I said just a guess, nothing definite.

- Revving a cold engine isn't recommended and in your case its a catch 22 situation.

- Considering the sparse traffic patterns it will happen later than a congested city but it could happen. How soon also depends on the car/engine in question. Don't know anything further than this.

- Will help for sure but not very significant and definitely not a guarantee.

- Just get the petrol, your running doesn't justify a diesel in terms of economy anyway and adding the potential DPF issues it doesn't make sense, IMHO.

If you're getting the diesel for its driving characteristics then the DPF issue becomes a known risk.

Honestly, the DPF issue is becoming a case of the car driving the owner rather than the other way around

OT : The very reason I never liked the earlier RE motorcycles

Check this thread/post (DPF issues in BS6-compliant cars at high altitude places like Ladakh, Zanskar and Spiti) for further info.

PS : DPF is like the scrubbers installed in powerplant chimneys to remove the particulates/pollutants from escaping into the atmosphere. Here the powerplant is your diesel engine and scrubber is your DPF. Only thing is that the emission of soot is variable and dependent on a lot of factors but the rest of the logic is the same.

Hope it helps.

[Nikhil Beke]

Honestly, the DPF issue is becoming a case of the car driving the owner rather than the other way around

It's amazing how all available information on DPF is full of uncertainties(with the manufacturers also not willing to commit to accurate information/ investing in troubleshooting this issue), making the whole peace of mind factor in diesel ownership itself unpredictable.

I wish they'd fit this filter close to the external end of the exhaust which can be detached and heated on a burner in some safe way

Looking at the increasing density of traffic even on the highways, you have to travel a good 20-30km out of the heart of a metro city to start regeneration passively/actively(We don't exactly have US/Australia like stretches of long, empty freeways) Going by the sprawling growth of outskirts in my city over last few years, this distance is set to increase. It's ok if one has a frequent highway run anyway, but running it just to clear the DPF is an utter waste of fuel and ones precious time. No wonder the proportion of Diesels is dipping to 17%- wonder what unpleasant surprise is on store for petrol owners with flex-petrol and BS7 norms.

[sbm]

Originally Posted by shancz

- there is no definite explanation, but its mainly about driving in a way that the revs are high and exhaust temperature high enough for the soot to burn off from the DPF(called passive regen). I am assuming it requires at least 40-60 mins(......
PS : DPF is like the scrubbers installed in powerplant chimneys to remove the particulates/pollutants from escaping into the atmosphere. Here the powerplant is your diesel engine and scrubber is your DPF. Only thing is that the emission of soot is variable and dependent on a lot of factors but the rest of the logic is the same.

Hope it helps.

I guess the BS6 diesels have become like 'shaadi ke ladoo' jo khaye wo pachtaye jo na khaye wo bhi pachtaye It's a very tricky situation now. If you want performace like a diesel, you need to buy a turbo petrol and that too, atleast a 1.4turbo but they are available only in the top end trims of Creta/Seltos and even these engine won't be able to match the efficiency and reliability (since they are comparitively new tech) of trusted turbo diesels. So the only options left are NA petrols or 1.0tsi of Skoda.

I can totally relate to the powerplant example. It's kind of daily routine at my workplace. By the way, thanks for the wonderful explanation