Fiesta Trouble!

anandpadhye · 5th July 2007, 15:59

Can the knoweldgeable friends hee tell me something about the Air-intake?

What if the bonnet seals break or the fender gaps widen (due to dent paint work etc) around the areas near the air intake and some rain water droplets go into the air intake.
Or ....
even more dangerous is that i have seen the service center guys open the bonet and washing the entire engine bay with hose pipe! Can the water enter the air-intake during this? isn't this risky????

Please reply.
Half doctor is always dangerous. So I would like to have complete knowledge about the possibilities of water entering the air-intake. The I can be careful...

Jaggu · 5th July 2007, 16:54

air intakes are designed in such a way that water dont rush into the engine if its minimal, it will have a collection and drain arrangement for water also, again your air filter will absorb some water (esp if its sponge or paper type)

yes its always better to close the air intakes with some plastic or cloth while pressure washing, also remember to remove it afterwards. otherwise ask the wash guy to be careful and avoid the open area while washing.

again air intakes are kept hidden (inside the fender) in most cases, so that the rain and wash water doesnt go inside.

in case of flooding this is not the case and large amount of water enters the air filter which is then sucked inside the engine.

in swift d there is snorkel inlet positioned above the engine, on top of the front bumper/headlight stay, which is good for wading flood but bad for washing.

zakaaaaasss · 5th July 2007, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

the service center guys open the bonet and washing the entire engine bay with hose pipe! Can the water enter the air-intake during this? isn't this risky????

in these cases, the quantity of water is less, hence what-ever water is gone inside the air intake, it may get absorbed in the paper filter itself. also if you see the air intake by opening the cover over the air filter, you'll see that the compartment has some depth wherein small amounts of water can get acccumulated and water does not enter the chamber directly.

anandpadhye · 5th July 2007, 18:04

Jaggu and Nimish,

Thanks.

I hope NHC compartment that can collect the water has some drain also.

Else the only way out is evaporation by engine heat but then the vapour will be sucked in isn't it?

And the NHC air intake isn't hidden. it's quite open and very close to the left fender and bonnet.

anandpadhye · 6th July 2007, 11:04

Hey...

Today I washed my NHC and then opened the bonnet to see if the air intake was dry.

It wasn't. A few drops of water in the intake pipe.

I opened the Air filter cover and to my pleasant surprize - I found decent sized recessed compartment below the air filter where water can go and you know what, it has a small drain as well.

Also, the actual air intake pipe connected to the engine is above the air filter. So the air sucked in from the atmosphere flows into the compartment below the air filter, and then passes upwards through the air filter and then gets sucked into the engine. Any water going in actually accumulates in the recessed compartment below the filter and drains out!

To check how effective this is, I started the engine while there was this small qty of water in the intake pipe and observed that the water gets sucked in and really does accumulate below the filter and drains out.

Very thoughful design. Amazing Honda!

I do not have any Ford Fiesta in my friend circle but now I am curious to open every bonnet I can and study the air intake and filter design.

zakaaaaasss · 6th July 2007, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

NHC air intake isn't hidden. it's quite open and very close to the left fender and bonnet.

this holds correct not only for NHC but majority of the road vehicles manufactured.....these air intakes have an opening near the bonnet/fender so that fresh and ambient air gets sucked into the engine....

you must have seen those OEM bonnet scoops on many vehicles...they too serve the same purpose

anandpadhye · 6th July 2007, 11:25

Nimish,
yes now I understand. Good picture.

anandpadhye · 6th July 2007, 11:28

BTW,
Can you tell me the best way to clean the air filter myself.
I get a gut feeling this air filter thing is very much maintenable by myself.
Deccan Honda as usual will charge labour and then will not even clean it at times...

Also, any thoughts on how to identify original NHC air filter versus duplicate one. Or choose the best quality one?

Thanks.

Vid6639 · 6th July 2007, 13:52

Update: Ford has refused to bear any charges. They washed their hands off the matter. Even then I'm fighting it out with them to see if they relent.

Also it seems this was a big problem in Kolkata and GM has stepped forward to help out their car owners.

I am also trying now for insurance as Ford says being a flood it should be covered by insurance. I have requested them to help out for insurance. Still waiting for the reply.

I spoke to my Insurance agent in bangalore and he confirmed that insurance is possible for this type of case.

Below is a useful article:

Shot at 2007-07-06

ps: mods sorry for the large size but if i resize it, it becomes unreadable.

sbasak · 6th July 2007, 16:05

After reading this thread (and some other similar incidents, especially the Protest against Tata Motors) I wonder how far actually manufacturers care about the warranty/After Sales Service!

Paying 1 lakh to fix the engine (probably less as they don't have to buy from 3rd party) is a miniscule amount to a company like Ford.

This thread will be read by many viewers (not necessarily members here) and will influence many potential buyers' decision against buying Ford.

If 100 people decides not to buy Ford because of this, doesn't it make sense to fix this car and maintain their goodwill?

For Tata Motors case, I understand that they are a typical truck manufacturing company with no customer service thinking at all. But how can an international company like Ford behave like this??

Or it is just the local dealer's boss playing foul get a higher rating in his own appraisal?

mclaren1885 · 6th July 2007, 20:15

First an issue with a friends Mondeo and now this. Listening to these stories I have started asking my friends to stay away from Fords. And being the informed lot that we all are I do hope this thread serves as a indicative to those buying Ford cars regarding the *** and marketing strategy. And I am quite sure it will make people think twice before they do think of buying a car from Ford which could directly translate to less sales for Ford.

Vidyut, its really sad to hear that your uncle had to to go through all this. So what does he intend to do now?

Vid6639 · 6th July 2007, 20:34

Mcl, a few options come up. One thing is to get hold of the report submitted by the dealer to Ford India. It seems that the dealer has fudged a few stuff and given all false info in the report. As per the report Ford india received from the dealer, it says that water has entered the cabin which is far from the truth. My uncle sadly dint take pics else Ford would really be in a soup to explain how water entered with a few inches of water.

Second option is to try to convince the insurance guys. I am trying to rope in Ford to help me out in the insurance even if they can't repair it under warranty. As per the newspaper article GM is trying to get insurance claim for there customers.

If all fails then go to private garage, get the car repaired and dispose it off.

In the meanwhile since my uncle is without a car he is purchasing an Innova. Again I have suggested him this so again it will be on my head if something goes wrong.

The Fiesta was my suggestion to him based on his requirements and he took my word for it and bought it. He was extremely happy with it for the 18months he had it, but after this experience he is left with a bitter taste about Ford.

Before this he had a corsa 1.6 for 6 years which never gave him any problems other than regular maintenance. He has gone through even worse waterlogged roads in that and just dint expect this to happen.

1100D · 6th July 2007, 21:38

I do not want to act spoilsport to the momentum of this Ford bashing, but are there examples of other manufacturers having fixed (at their cost) a seized engine after water got into it?

Vid6639 · 6th July 2007, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1100D

I do not want to act spoilsport to the momentum of this Ford bashing, but are there examples of other manufacturers having fixed (at their cost) a seized engine after water got into it?

I'm not sure yaar but I wasn't bashing Ford at all about not repairing the car at their cost. i was just disappointed at how this could happen. Obviously we know how water got in, but if other car's dont have a problem wading in a few inches of water why should this car have?

Like I mentioned his corsa had seen worse rains and gone through even deeper waters. I even remember one such incident in kolkata when one of the roads was flooded.

1100D · 6th July 2007, 22:31

It could simply be "providence".

I know the amount might come as a shock to any person, but whenever there is water, there is a chance. I myself have waded thru deeper waters in the last year itself (but I always knew the chance I was taking).

5th July 2007, 15:59	#106
anandpadhye Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 3,054 Thanked: 3,313 Times	Can the knoweldgeable friends hee tell me something about the Air-intake? What if the bonnet seals break or the fender gaps widen (due to dent paint work etc) around the areas near the air intake and some rain water droplets go into the air intake. Or .... even more dangerous is that i have seen the service center guys open the bonet and washing the entire engine bay with hose pipe! Can the water enter the air-intake during this? isn't this risky???? Please reply. Half doctor is always dangerous. So I would like to have complete knowledge about the possibilities of water entering the air-intake. The I can be careful...
	() Thanks

5th July 2007, 16:54	#107
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,215 Thanked: 15,908 Times	air intakes are designed in such a way that water dont rush into the engine if its minimal, it will have a collection and drain arrangement for water also, again your air filter will absorb some water (esp if its sponge or paper type) yes its always better to close the air intakes with some plastic or cloth while pressure washing, also remember to remove it afterwards. otherwise ask the wash guy to be careful and avoid the open area while washing. again air intakes are kept hidden (inside the fender) in most cases, so that the rain and wash water doesnt go inside. in case of flooding this is not the case and large amount of water enters the air filter which is then sucked inside the engine. in swift d there is snorkel inlet positioned above the engine, on top of the front bumper/headlight stay, which is good for wading flood but bad for washing.
	() Thanks

5th July 2007, 18:04	#109
anandpadhye Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 3,054 Thanked: 3,313 Times	Jaggu and Nimish, Thanks. I hope NHC compartment that can collect the water has some drain also. Else the only way out is evaporation by engine heat but then the vapour will be sucked in isn't it? And the NHC air intake isn't hidden. it's quite open and very close to the left fender and bonnet.
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 11:04	#110
anandpadhye Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 3,054 Thanked: 3,313 Times	Hey... Today I washed my NHC and then opened the bonnet to see if the air intake was dry. It wasn't. A few drops of water in the intake pipe. I opened the Air filter cover and to my pleasant surprize - I found decent sized recessed compartment below the air filter where water can go and you know what, it has a small drain as well. Also, the actual air intake pipe connected to the engine is above the air filter. So the air sucked in from the atmosphere flows into the compartment below the air filter, and then passes upwards through the air filter and then gets sucked into the engine. Any water going in actually accumulates in the recessed compartment below the filter and drains out! To check how effective this is, I started the engine while there was this small qty of water in the intake pipe and observed that the water gets sucked in and really does accumulate below the filter and drains out. Very thoughful design. Amazing Honda! I do not have any Ford Fiesta in my friend circle but now I am curious to open every bonnet I can and study the air intake and filter design.
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 11:25	#112
anandpadhye Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 3,054 Thanked: 3,313 Times	Nimish, yes now I understand. Good picture.
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 11:28	#113
anandpadhye Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 3,054 Thanked: 3,313 Times	BTW, Can you tell me the best way to clean the air filter myself. I get a gut feeling this air filter thing is very much maintenable by myself. Deccan Honda as usual will charge labour and then will not even clean it at times... Also, any thoughts on how to identify original NHC air filter versus duplicate one. Or choose the best quality one? Thanks.
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 13:52	#114
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,486 Times View My Garage	Update: Ford has refused to bear any charges. They washed their hands off the matter. Even then I'm fighting it out with them to see if they relent. Also it seems this was a big problem in Kolkata and GM has stepped forward to help out their car owners. I am also trying now for insurance as Ford says being a flood it should be covered by insurance. I have requested them to help out for insurance. Still waiting for the reply. I spoke to my Insurance agent in bangalore and he confirmed that insurance is possible for this type of case. Below is a useful article: Shot at 2007-07-06 ps: mods sorry for the large size but if i resize it, it becomes unreadable. Last edited by Vid6639 : 6th July 2007 at 13:55.
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 16:05	#115
sbasak BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CCU-LTN Posts: 608 Thanked: 14 Times	Is Ford reading this forum? After reading this thread (and some other similar incidents, especially the Protest against Tata Motors) I wonder how far actually manufacturers care about the warranty/After Sales Service! Paying 1 lakh to fix the engine (probably less as they don't have to buy from 3rd party) is a miniscule amount to a company like Ford. This thread will be read by many viewers (not necessarily members here) and will influence many potential buyers' decision against buying Ford. If 100 people decides not to buy Ford because of this, doesn't it make sense to fix this car and maintain their goodwill? For Tata Motors case, I understand that they are a typical truck manufacturing company with no customer service thinking at all. But how can an international company like Ford behave like this?? Or it is just the local dealer's boss playing foul get a higher rating in his own appraisal?
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 20:15	#116
mclaren1885 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 4,820 Thanked: 45 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	First an issue with a friends Mondeo and now this. Listening to these stories I have started asking my friends to stay away from Fords. And being the informed lot that we all are I do hope this thread serves as a indicative to those buying Ford cars regarding the *** and marketing strategy. And I am quite sure it will make people think twice before they do think of buying a car from Ford which could directly translate to less sales for Ford. Vidyut, its really sad to hear that your uncle had to to go through all this. So what does he intend to do now?
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 20:34	#117
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,486 Times View My Garage	Mcl, a few options come up. One thing is to get hold of the report submitted by the dealer to Ford India. It seems that the dealer has fudged a few stuff and given all false info in the report. As per the report Ford india received from the dealer, it says that water has entered the cabin which is far from the truth. My uncle sadly dint take pics else Ford would really be in a soup to explain how water entered with a few inches of water. Second option is to try to convince the insurance guys. I am trying to rope in Ford to help me out in the insurance even if they can't repair it under warranty. As per the newspaper article GM is trying to get insurance claim for there customers. If all fails then go to private garage, get the car repaired and dispose it off. In the meanwhile since my uncle is without a car he is purchasing an Innova. Again I have suggested him this so again it will be on my head if something goes wrong. The Fiesta was my suggestion to him based on his requirements and he took my word for it and bought it. He was extremely happy with it for the 18months he had it, but after this experience he is left with a bitter taste about Ford. Before this he had a corsa 1.6 for 6 years which never gave him any problems other than regular maintenance. He has gone through even worse waterlogged roads in that and just dint expect this to happen.
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 21:38	#118
1100D Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,390 Thanked: 4,096 Times View My Garage	I do not want to act spoilsport to the momentum of this Ford bashing, but are there examples of other manufacturers having fixed (at their cost) a seized engine after water got into it?
	() Thanks

6th July 2007, 22:31	#120
1100D Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,390 Thanked: 4,096 Times View My Garage	It could simply be "providence". I know the amount might come as a shock to any person, but whenever there is water, there is a chance. I myself have waded thru deeper waters in the last year itself (but I always knew the chance I was taking).
	() Thanks