Team-BHP - The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

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- - The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/43377-tata-safari-2-2l-technical-problems-thread-47.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979 (Post 1225905)

Does anyone of you see service light coming on under high load. For example when vehicle is stuck and you give high revs, leading to wheelspin?
In my vehicle whenever I do that service light comes on for a second. I presume this is a feature and not a bug?

Never seen this in my 3.0, even with revving beyond the redline stuck in slush (NOT RECOMMENDED). Only movement other than spinning wheels was the temp. gauge getting cosy with the 1/2 mark.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrag (Post 1225971)

Never seen this in my 3.0, even with revving beyond the redline stuck in slush (NOT RECOMMENDED). Only movement other than spinning wheels was the temp. gauge getting cosy with the 1/2 mark.

This could be a new feature to intimate the driver that he is reving above the limit and putting more pressure on the engine unlike in 3.0L your temp gauge indicating the heat.

I have 6 years of experience with Tatas' features - this is definitely not one of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyWheels (Post 1225073)

Wasn't there few 2.2 owners who said that using premium fuel caused some sound, the 'Grrr Grrr' ( :D ) from the engine and this went off when normal diesel was used?

It was Krr Krr and not Grr Grr and the difference is not just in the alphabetslol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun (Post 1225250)

I got mine changed last week for the 15000 service. The cost is
Fuel Filter Assy (Delphi) 2161.00

I would disagree with that, I was said at the A.S.S that all the Dicor engines use the Delphi filter costing 2161.00 where as the TDI's use a cheaper filter (around Rs 300.00 only)

So they are using different filters for the 2.2 VTT's

I agree. The TCIC has regular Bosch / TVS fuel filters used in pair of 2 nos which cost ~ Rs. 300.00 per set (same as that for the Sierra / Estate). The Delphi fuel filters used for 2.2 (don't about the 3.0L) are Rs. 2000+

I have my doubts about the service light at high loads/redline being a feature.

Most vehicles are designed to run under high loads and it is a different matter that owners rarely explore more than 40-50% of the capability envelope of their rides during its life time. (hrag being the honorable exception here :D)

so putting a vehicle under what and owner deems "high load" may actually be a walk in the park for a vehicle.

High load will generally lead to two things- higher than normal temperature of the engine and smell of clutch burning (like in cases of steep gradients, standing starts with a lot of load on a slope etc.)

I would definitely get this service light issue checked.

I saw a notice pasted at autolinks from Tata. It says that filter change interval has changed to 30K kms from 15K kms

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979 (Post 1226089)

I saw a notice pasted at autolinks from Tata. It says that filter change interval has changed to 30K kms from 15K kms

The same is also mentioned in the owners manual.

I raised this subject at the 2nd service after 1 year and the TASS service adviser informed me that these will be changed at 30000 Kms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adc (Post 1225052)

For both may be the 2.2 engine will be more senstive, both manufacterers are pushed to develop the 2.2 due to pollution norms from 2010 though suspect diesel still remains commonly available - I absolutely use premium diesel in travel when away from the trusted pump, as much as possible of IOC, just for the peace of mind.

It is already Euro IV ready, sells in Italy as EuroIV engine. The difference, a different ECU software. The same will be put in India in 2010.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979 (Post 1226089)

I saw a notice pasted at autolinks from Tata. It says that filter change interval has changed to 30K kms from 15K kms

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingshukt (Post 1226116)

The same is also mentioned in the owners manual.

I raised this subject at the 2nd service after 1 year and the TASS service adviser informed me that these will be changed at 30000 Kms.

Yes, they came out with a new filter assembly having a different part no which I had already posted earlier in this thread. Now its a 30k replacement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami (Post 1226054)

High load will generally lead to two things- higher than normal temperature of the engine and smell of clutch burning (like in cases of steep gradients, standing starts with a lot of load on a slope etc.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by adc (Post 1199216)

In Orissa Sunabeda forest on an incline, was going back on the back gear but the incline was too steep, in the middle of the incline the rear wheels were only spinning and the load on the engine was definitely high and suddenly the service light came on.

Immediately let go of the accelerator, rolled down the incline and turned and then went over the incline this time front facing and in 1st gear with better intial speed. By that time the service light was off, it was on for hardly may be few seconds.

Called up the Calcutta service manager later when out of Sunabeda forest from Orissa itself and told him about the situation. He did confer about that service light most probably came on, sensing that the clutch was slipping and was under high stress. Told me not to worry but to carry on the journey and report it if it comes up again on a plain road. Everything was very much normal all through, no problem and still now.

Well this is my story, for yours it may be was due to load as TML guy is saying but still a tentative conclusion given your's VTT particular background. Anyway, worry if it comes up on a plain road.

The forest incline was real steep and loose topsoil and also smell of clutch burning came - the situation was such that I had to use half clutch in that forest path with 2wd as I was slowly stallling with wheels spinning furiously on the incline

My idea, anyone of 2.2 can replicate that service light.

Just do this, if your 2wd, take a steep dusty [loose soil] incline which normally would not go back up on the back gear, and on the middle of incline your wheels are just spinning and you are in half clutch.

or do this

For a 2wd, position your VTT in such a way that the front tires just above a boulder rock or let say over ledge of some height and there is not much space to go forward - means like you cannot drive forward and go backwards over the ledge with some momentum and thus go on back gear with some force - so basically yours rear wheels are spinning and still the front wheels dont go above ledge, thus within a second you have to do all these manouvering on a half clutch as you are now standstill with rear wheels spinning. You will get the service light.

In both situations clutch is under extreme stress and in both situations in half clutch, either just starting to smell the burning or about to burn, the rpm was/is not the factor, and both times you will get the service light.

Whether this is a safety feature, dont know but sure does tell that you are about to fry your clutch plate.

Of course, do that experiment remembering that a clutch plate and extras cost around Rs 13,000 - burned clutch plate is not under warranty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adc (Post 1223365)

Today while on the Bullet, saw a parked 2.2 Dicor with driver, demanded that the hood be opened and lo and behold the pipe is attached well in the clip. Around 7k used Safari this was. Asked him also any issues, said the last driver burned the clutch and got thrown out - clutch and paraphernalia repair costs around 13k around

Absolutely never a service light ever after, only for those 2 secs or so for those situations and everything okay till now.

Service light coming on should NEVER be considered a feature for any vehicle. That is not what a service light is meant for. It basically means that one of the sensors have given a reading outside normal parameters to the ECU.

Well as per TM SS out here, as per the circular, use only normal diesel and no additives [even no STP or System D]

As such, after 1.5 years of Premium Fuel, I have changed back to normal diesel from a trusted pump. The acceleration felt the same, noise level ..hmmmm.. seemed to be very slightly higher but very unsure.

Can other VTT owners when in a TASS, ask about this fuel dilemma/if any new notice from TM about diesel

Quote:

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami (Post 1225949)

You have to specifically tell them to drain the sedmenter. But even if they have not done it, it is a simple DIY job that will take you no more than 20-25 minutes to do.

Can you explain please, pics would help, I don't even know how the sedimenter looks like :eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadu (Post 1226550)

Yes, they came out with a new filter assembly having a different part no which I had already posted earlier in this thread. Now its a 30k replacement.

How do I know if I have the new filter assembly / part number ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun (Post 1227229)

Can you explain please, pics would help, I don't even know how the sedimenter looks like :eek:

I dont quite know how to explain this here in the forum, but the Safari's manual can be a good guide. it clearly shows the location of the sedimenter and how to access it.

here is a pdf version of the 2.2's manual. you will get the relevant infor on page 45

http://www.customercare.tatamotors.c...afariDicor.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami (Post 1227659)

You can check on the Page 109 for cleaning the Sedimenter

Quote:

Originally Posted by adc (Post 1227106)

Premium or additive once is a quarter dont harm, they help clean nothing else.

I had provided TATA engineers a printout of Delphi themselves suggesting usage of "their" fuel additives (sourced from chevron, same as System D) and they did not have an answer. Read "FAQ" from the first Question containing the term "Delphi Diesel +". I tried contacting Delphi directly and after some initial response they backed out.

Quote:

October 15, 2007, FRANKFURT, GERMANY -- Delphi, one of the largest producers of diesel fuel injection systems, and Chevron Global Lubricants (CGL) have launched a new aftermarket fuel additive.

The product, called Delphi Diesel+ and co-branded by both Delphi and Chevron Texaco, the new fuel treatment is available through authorised Delphi distributors. It offers major benefits in protecting the latest generation Euro IV and Euro V engines from damage resulting from variable fuel quality. Chevron Texaco point out that diesel fuel can suffer when poorly stored.

The new treatment contains a number of key elements to aid engine efficiency. While these are often present in top quality fuels, Delphi Diesel+ helps compensate when fuel quality is variable and where fuel may have been contaminated.
.
.
.
Delphi Diesel+ has been successfully tested and proven in the latest high pressure systems.

They just want to be more prudent in India.

Source for Quoted text

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun (Post 1227229)

Can you explain please, pics would help, I don't even know how the sedimenter looks like :eek:

How do I know if I have the new filter assembly / part number ?

Can someone click pictures and upload a guide on cleaning the sedimenter, during their next cleanup, it would be helpful for all here.

You can ask the SA to check for the part number on the filter, they are aware of it.