[lurker]

Can I ask you, why you repeatedly overhaul the starter motor instead of just replacing it with a brand new one which has warranty etc.

[sammyboy]

Originally Posted by sujithsidhardha

Apologies for digging out an old thread, But its a real time problem i am facing now.

=========
Meanwhile, requesting advice and suggestions from fellow bhpians who got the similar issues resolved.

What worked for me was a battery change. I have the same thing documented in one of the threads , maybe this one but after suffering for a while, changing the starter motor, alternator included, that's what helped me. Instead of putting your battery in another car, do it the other way exchange it with someone for a couple of days .

[sgiitk]

I had this problem in my Santro AT. What it turned out to be was a battery on the way out. As a hot engine due to its compression may require more juice to turn over, a marginal battery can lead to this. I always thought it was a cold engine which needed more juice. I changed the battery and then ran the car well for over a year, with no trouble.

[lurker]

But is this a Santro AT, the poster hasn't mentioned anywhere that he has an AT.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by lurker

But is this a Santro AT, the poster hasn't mentioned anywhere that he has an AT.

The issue is the same. AT or MT matters only when the beastie fires up. Only with an AT push starting is out, so the problem becomes more acute. I keep jumpers in both my cars for this reason.

[sujithsidhardha]

Originally Posted by lurker

Can I ask you, why you repeatedly overhaul the starter motor instead of just replacing it with a brand new one which has warranty etc.

Overhaul from ASC is opening the starter motor, clean it and put it back and costs somewhere around 450/-. A new starter motor costs somewhere around 5000/-. More over, they haven't even identified what the issue was. Along with that hey didn't asked my permission before overhauling. I had to create an issue during the last overhauling (during solenoid change), as the same service center had done an overhauling a month ago.

Seems Hyundai ASC's ultimate aim now is to create maximum revenue. Now a days their professionalism and quality has been degraded a lot. I can really feel that during these years of ownership.

[sujithsidhardha]

Update: Mechanic opened the starter and replaced the brushes initially and put everything back in place. Drove the car for some time and the problem exists. Now the suspect is armature. Solenoid is already ruled out, as the replacement was recent and they didn't find any issues while checking it. They tried to rewind the armature and later concluded that there is some issue with the armature. A replacement is better than repairing it. So replaced the armature and its working fine now. No more issue when engine is hot. Drove around 50 Kms, stopped around 10 times during the drive. Waited for 2 to 3 minutes before starting and now the car starts without any issues.

Seems, its concluded that the issue was with the starter motor itself. Any way, let me see how long it goes with the replaced armature. Had to pay 2K for all the work and parts. Anyway, i am glad that the issue is clearly identified now.

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I had this problem in my Santro AT. What it turned out to be was a battery on the way out. As a hot engine due to its compression may require more juice to turn over, a marginal battery can lead to this. I always thought it was a cold engine which needed more juice. I changed the battery and then ran the car well for over a year, with no trouble.

Mine is MT. was also confused with the strange behavior. Until i had the opportunity to swap the battery, i suspected the battery. I was even planning to buy another battery. But my previous experiences along with my testing pulled me back. I had to identify the actual issue, before spending anything.

Originally Posted by sammyboy

What worked for me was a battery change. I have the same thing documented in one of the threads , maybe this one but after suffering for a while, changing the starter motor, alternator included, that's what helped me. Instead of putting your battery in another car, do it the other way exchange it with someone for a couple of days .

Tried both ways. Recreated the situation by driving for some time. When i faced the issue in cranking, connected my battery in another santro and it started without any issues as mentioned in my original port. At the same time, connected the other battery (Its a new battery) on my santro and i was facing the same issue. So ruled out the issue with battery. Battery is working fine. Checked the negative terminal connectivity as well.

[Sutripta]

Was the current drawn by the starter ever measured?
Armature put on a growler?

Regards
Sutripta

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by sujithsidhardha

Seems, its concluded that the issue was with the starter motor itself. Any way, let me see how long it goes with the replaced armature. Had to pay 2K for all the work and parts. Anyway, i am glad that the issue is clearly identified now.

Mine is MT. was also confused with the strange behavior. Until i had the opportunity to swap the battery, i suspected the battery. I was even planning to buy another battery. But my previous experiences along with my testing pulled me back. I had to identify the actual issue, before spending anything.

Tried both ways. Recreated the situation by driving for some time. When i faced the issue in cranking, connected my battery in another santro and it started without any issues as mentioned in my original port. At the same time, connected the other battery (Its a new battery) on my santro and i was facing the same issue. So ruled out the issue with battery. Battery is working fine. Checked the negative terminal connectivity as well.

Good to learn that starter issues still exist, and you are back in business. You took the right approach to find the problem.

The last time I had a starter needing work was during my Maruti Esteem days.

Ten years ago I would have picked up the starter as the prime suspect, no more. As for MT or AT it matters only when the engine fires up. Only as I said earlier with an AT push starting is out.

[sujithsidhardha]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Was the current drawn by the starter ever measured?
Armature put on a growler?

Regards
Sutripta

I am not sure, whether the current drawn by the starter was measured.

But the drop in voltage at the time of ignition was measured by me, battery shop technician and the mechanic. During cold starts, it never went less than 10 volt. But when the engine is hot, i saw the multi meter reading went to less than 2 volt on both the batteries i tried. I suspected both the batteries and at the same time, thought about an internal short in starter motor as well.

[balenoed_]

Bringing this thread back live.

I kind of sensing that my Baleno (2004) model is having this issue. It has not become very severe yet. But I have seen that it doesn’t start in the first few tries after running hot for a while. Like, when I stop for a petrol, tea break after long drives.
It starts after few tries though. I have not seen this problem before. It just starts in the first try when it is cold.

I have read all the posts here and other threads and it seems that all discussions are around:-

- Battery
- Battery terminal
- Starter Motor
- Ignition Coil

I am about to start investigation by picking up one by one. Does anyone want to shed some light on why the above 4 items malfunctions when it the Engine has run for a while. Why not they behave the same way when it is cold?

[glomus123]

I think here the culprit is ignition coil. Reason could me many which I am not sure, including increased resistance of copper when hot, and losing insulation when hot.

Originally Posted by balenoed_

Bringing this thread back live.
:-

- Battery
- Battery terminal
- Starter Motor
- Ignition Coil

I am about to start investigation by picking up one by one. Does anyone want to shed some light on why the above 4 items malfunctions when it the Engine has run for a while. Why not they behave the same way when it is cold?

[Kestrel5915]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

I am about to start investigation by picking up one by one. Does anyone want to shed some light on why the above 4 items malfunctions when it the Engine has run for a while. Why not they behave the same way when it is cold?

Heat increases the resistance of conductors and wires causing lower amount of current to flow.
In that condition the starter will also require more amperage.
This is usually known as Heat Soak condition.

One other issue can be vapor lock in the fuel due to heat.
However, the probability of this occurring is low.
Checking the condition of the coolant won't hurt.

[Ameya Janvekar]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

Bringing this thread back live.

I kind of sensing that my Baleno (2004) model is having this issue. It has not become very severe yet. But I have seen that it doesn't start in the first few tries after running hot for a while. Like, when I stop for a petrol, tea break after long drives.
It starts after few tries though. I have not seen this problem before. It just starts in the first try when it is cold.

I have read all the posts here and other threads and it seems that all discussions are around:-

- Battery
- Battery terminal
- Starter Motor
- Ignition Coil

If the engine cranks strongly / normally then the battery & starter may not be the issue.

I do not know if your cars has ( fundamental engineering say it should ) a Fuel Lift Pump. It is the pump which actuates when you turn the key to IGNITION ON. This pump primes the fuel line from tank to engine. It is the small whirring sound you can here sometimes.

My '03 Indigo GLS had the same issue after a few years. The lift pump would heat up & stop functioning till it cooled down. As long as the car was running, it would be fine. But stop for a few minutes & re-try it would not start till it cooled.

It could also be the relay of this pump.

Rgds

Ameya

[sujithsidhardha]

Current Status: I am back to Square one. After the last work, there were no issues for about 2-3 months. Then things started rolling back. If i try to start the car within 10-20 seconds after switching off the ignition, it will start fine on most cases. If i wait for more and try to crank, it fails like with a poor battery. Once the car is cooled, after 15-20 minutes, it will start without any issues. Tried another mechanic and he pointed that the radiator fan is not working as expected. I was also convinced and changed the thermo water temperature switch. Anyway, it wouldn't help much, other than the fan started to work on higher temperatures. (Being my daily commute is only around 5 km x 2, i couldn't face a serious issue with engine over heating yet).

Visit to ASC: Just to try my luck, i visited the Hyundai ASC. Without any checking, they told me that the Engine gasket is gone and it take 2 weeks to complete the work and an approximate estimate of 15K. .
When i left there, the security told me not to keep the vehicle with them, as they will rip me apart. He also advised to go to another ASC nearby!.

New Hint: I checked the multi meter method again for checking battery. During cold start, voltage is not dropping below 10 volt. But when hot and with starting issue, it drops to less than 2 volt and then to 0 like a short circuit. Is the starter armature again be the culprit? If so, why it worked without any issues for around 3 months and the same scenario is recurring?

Totally confused! Any expert opinions to get this sorted out? Different mechanics, different options and resolution suggestions!

Originally Posted by Ameya Janvekar

My '03 Indigo GLS had the same issue after a few years. The lift pump would heat up & stop functioning till it cooled down. As long as the car was running, it would be fine. But stop for a few minutes & re-try it would not start till it cooled.

In this case, engine will crank, but won't start. Just like trying to start the car without Fuel. Right?

Originally Posted by Ameya Janvekar

It could also be the relay of this pump.

Faulty relay return the same symptom. Will crank, but won't start. I had such a scenario earlier. Starter runs, but engine will not start. Normally, when i turn on the ignition on my 2002 Santro LP Zip Plus MT, i could normally hear the "sssssssss" sound followed by a relay click. This ensures that the relay is ok. But on that day, i couldn't hear any such sounds. The mechanic came, checked and told me the sound was not there and replaced the relay on the left side of front passenger foot well. Problem resolved in a minute.