[visweshkalambur]

Folks.. read the june sales numbers...Optra is selling more than the Civic...

Numbers given below in the order of March, April, May & June

Optra - 270 368 240 241 (Total 1119)
Civic - 379 253 190 175 (Total 971)

This surprised me, plesantly though.

[Poitive]

The Civic figures make the Optra look good

In other news, there is a thread about the New Fiesta being launched on the 10th of July! Saw it on Vb-San's post on the Fiesta thread (just in case someone is not following it)

Link for the launch :
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...july-10th.html

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by rock22

Now three more TDs to go...
1. New Ford Fiesta
2. Verna Fluidic
3. And of course... Optra

I know its not a sedan per se; but please consider the Jazz too. Negatives include lack of thigh support on rear seat and no separate boot. I leave you to figure out the positives!
Dont buy it if you dont want to, but at least go for a TD

Originally Posted by visweshkalambur

Folks.. read the june sales numbers...Optra is selling more than the Civic...

Numbers given below in the order of March, April, May & June

Optra - 270 368 240 241 (Total 1119)
Civic - 379 253 190 175 (Total 971)

This surprised me, plesantly though.

Whoa, it looks like a lot of prospective Civic buyers are expecting some price cuts as done for the City!
Jokes apart, it is great to observe the consistent sales of the Optra as against the alarming dip for the Civic. Perhaps some of the prospective Civic buyers were lured by the ANHV?

[Poitive]

got this sms from ford:
All New Ford Fiesta launches on 14 July. You are invited to an Exclusive Preview on 10 July at your nearest Ford dealership.

[Cooltronics]

Originally Posted by Poitive

The Volkswagen Vento

The showroom staff was neatly presented. Formally and Well dressed. Seemed that if one let them, they would take forever to attend to you. Pressed a bit to get things moving.

Soon was in the Vento HL (even tough I was really only considering the TL version). The first thing that struck me was the somewhat cramped feeling in the cabin. The windscreen started pretty high. I personally like airy cabins. This surely wasn't one. The dark interiors didn't help any. The space on offer was also strictly moderate. Good sitting posture though.

The cabin design felt sedate. No brilliance here - designed to please all and offend none, is what I thought. Have read people apprecaiting the quality of the interiors and plastics etc. I didn't find anything special at all. To me, it didn't have a premium feel.

The car felt easy to drive. Not too large. Nimble enough for the city. The wide power band only made it easier to drive. Vibrations did filter into the cabin though. Liked the power delivery of the car, however didn't feel as smooth as I would have liked it. The suspension was a bit on the stiffer side. The car handled pretty well. There was a pretty assured feeling when one swerved the car to overtake. Felt quite composed at high speeds.

On returning back to the showroom, I tried sitting on the rear seat. I was aghast. I could not even sit straight on the rear seat (am 6'). Am not talking about how much space between my head and the ceiling. I simply could not sit straight! The headroom was that bad. The ingress and egress from the rear seat was terrible. The front was only a bit better.

Overall was a nice car to drive. Not brilliant. Neither the handling. Nor the ride. The cabin was not at all to my liking. A lot of people may buy this because of the VW badge. Or for the overall well rounded nature.

It didn't seem my cup of tea. Surely not a car for tall people.

Waiting to hear your feedback about the NFS . Are you going to check out one today ? have you decided on your new car ?

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by Cooltronics

Waiting to hear your feedback about the NFS . Are you going to check out one today ? have you decided on your new car ?

Decision is pretty much like before. Optra or Manza, but the purchase has been deferred for now. Will try the New Fiesta, just in case it springs in a good surprise; though with Optra like pricing, doubt it would suit me more.

Didn't check it mate. Had seen it from outside a few times at Select in Delhi so wasn't motivated enough to go for the 'launch'. Will TD it once the rush dies down, so it may take a while.

What cars are you considering and what are your priorities mate?

[Cooltronics]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Decision is pretty much like before. Optra or Manza, but the purchase has been deferred for now. Will try the New Fiesta, just in case it springs in a good surprise; though with Optra like pricing, doubt it would suit me more.

Didn't check it mate. Had seen it from outside a few times at Select in Delhi so wasn't motivated enough to go for the 'launch'. Will TD it once the rush dies down, so it may take a while.

What cars are you considering and what are your priorities mate?

Contemplating between petrol & diesel still. I have a daily run of avg 6 km but might go in for some weekend trips next year onwards.
Tilting in favor of Petrol, I am thinking about the Fiesta Classic or the new Fiesta if its priced right. Other options can be i20 petrol Asta or Magna Diesel. Vento Trendline can be thought if I can stretch some more

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by Cooltronics

Contemplating between petrol & diesel still. I have a daily run of avg 6 km but might go in for some weekend trips next year onwards.
Tilting in favor of Petrol, I am thinking about the Fiesta Classic or the new Fiesta if its priced right. Other options can be i20 petrol Asta or Magna Diesel. Vento Trendline can be thought if I can stretch some more

I am sure once you get your hands on the car of your choice, your runs and the distance would both increase!
I recommend you TD the Jazz.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by Cooltronics

Contemplating between petrol & diesel still. I have a daily run of avg 6 km but might go in for some weekend trips next year onwards.

Unless you are going in for a Manza/Vista/Indigo/Indica or an Optra, petrol would be the way for you.

Originally Posted by selfdrive

I am sure once you get your hands on the car of your choice, your runs and the distance would both increase!
I recommend you TD the Jazz.

One is hearing more and more good things about the Jazz on the forum. About price drops, continuity etc, you may want to read this.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by Cooltronics

Waiting to hear your feedback about the NFS .

Had a feel of the New Ford Fiesta and have posted observations in the Fiesta thread here. Hope it helps mate

If and when I TD it, will post the details here and/or on the Spacious Diesel Sedan thread.

[Poitive]

Guys, Managed to have an unexpected TD of the New Ford Fiesta. Had had a feel of the cabin before and posted a report on the NFF thread. Will copy it here too for ease of readers, as the focus was a bit different this time. The link of that report is there in the previous post. Copy below in this post. The TD report in the following one(s).

(@Mods, am breaking up the posts to make it easier to read and for better linkage and quoting (new members, and at times even old, often link the whole post just to add a 1-2 line statement. In such cases, it may be needlessly long to quote the whole post)

--------------------------------

Seen and felt – The New Fiesta


Happened to be near a Ford showroom and dropped in to have a peep at the New Ford Fiesta. Spent a few minutes with it. A lot of things stated below may be personal and for my body size (am 6’ and biggishly built); some things like looks etc are anyway personal. No offence meant to anyone.

Thoughts and observations:

• Looks from front : Quite handsome. Prefer it to the Fluidic Verna from the front.
• Looks from the rear: Bulky. Too much metal without enough breaks. But well, it may just be a matter of getting used to things (we did get used to the Santro, didn’t we?)
• Side and overall : Quite good. Simple. Not as much attention seeking as the Fluidic. May have a longer lasting appeal.
• Ingress and Egress was quite easy.
• The dash was a bit in your face. Too many buttons. Cluttered and not immediately easy to live with. But what the heck, after a few months, we all get a bit too used to the dash and rarely even notice it (unless it is exceptionally good or exceptionally bad). Not particularly impressed with the design of the dash.
• The finish of the dash was pretty ordinary. Nothing to complain at all. Nothing to write home about either. The Fluidic was way better.
• The steering felt quite good to hold. Sporty feel.
• Seats were the kind which wrap around you. Wrap around even more than the Fluidic. They give you a sporty feel and will hold you if you try to test if this one is on rails. But over long journeys (say 7-10 hours), it may not be too comfortable, as it is not contusive to changing sitting position. There is really only one right position to sit and one can’t sit like that over long journeys. Such seats are also usually suitable only for a certain size of body structure. They were quite small for me and I didn’t fit well into them. Though, after some more time in the seat, it felt significantly better, though still not good enough for me.
• The seatwas height adjustable and it took a while to find a comfortable sitting position. As soon as I was physically comfortable with the seat, I realized that I was sitting pretty high up (the seat height also has an effect on the angle of the seat base). The upper end of the windscreen was very much in my eye-line. I had to lower the seat for this reason and then it became physically a bit uncomfortable. But overall was not bad at all. Not what the doc ordered, but surely not a deal breaker either. It anyway changes a lot based on one's body.
• The lever to change the recline is a knob. Allows a more graded and precise recline; but in the Maruti 800 days, it was something one was weary of, as they would tend to break with pressure, and that was very risky. Hope these ones are better. Far better.
• There was ample knee room and the console wasn’t obtrusive. Not as comfortable for the left leg as the Fluidic was, but comfortable enough.
• There was a dead pedal like space, without the rubber one expects in a dead pedal. It wasn’t as wide as one would want. Overall the foot well was just about adequate, but significantly better than the Manza (the only gripe with Manza’s space was with the cramped footwell). IMO dead pedals are a must. Still don’t understand why it is not considered an essential while designing the car.
• The OVRM control didn’t feel intuitive, but is a very minor point, as one should get used to it over time.
• The width of the car felt just about adequate in front.
• In the rear, the seat was a lot better than the Fluidic. But if you try to carry three adults, you will have to screen them for size! LOL. Unhappy seating for three for longer journeys. Really is a two seater (and a kid) bench. The console extended a bit to far back intruding into the rear bench's foot-room making seating three an even bigger pain.
• It is by no means as claustrophobic as the Fluidic Verna.
• The headroom was only about adequate at the rear. The car hitting an unexpected hump may mean my head hitting the ceiling, which would happen in many cars. The headroom was more than the Vento (bear in mind that this is beyond just the measurement figures – how the seats and their recline etc are designed also play a role).
• One 6’ person behind the another? No! Just adequate for a 5’10” behind a 5’10 IMO. Adequate, not comfortable. Two 5'9" should be comfortable.
• The boot though deep and quite wide had a pretty narrow opening – not suited to put those biggish suitcases vertically. One can only stack them one over the other and put other stuff around them. Quite a waste of space, in a sense. And we didn’t even get a beautiful looking rear end to justify this.
• There was that ‘almost there’ thud feeling on closing doors. Almost, because there seemed to be a tiny issue with the door alignment. Or maybe it was to do with the rubber dampening. I didn’t really inspect.
• Overall the cabin felt smallish. However, given it’s size was not claustrophobic, despite the black interiors. Light colour interiors may not have looked as sporty, but would have added a much greater sense of space.

Closing Remarks:

IMO it very much seemed like a car made for singles or small families of more developed countries, where this would be an entry level sedan.

It should be a car where two adults are to be in front and kids in the rear. The occasional journey with adults would also not be an issue. Doesn’t seem to be suited at all, in case you are to be chauffeur driven (no surprise here).

The cabin though not claustrophobic, wasn’t really airy either. Just made across the acceptable limit, for me. I personally like airy cabins a lot.

Foot note.

A diesel cabin to be driven in? Well, we still don’t have much better than the Manza in the sub 10-12L range. (not counting the Optra). A 1.6L engine with a 50-80k increase in price and some more confidence in it’s reliablility and the Manza could really do well, IMO.

For petrols, it seems the Honda city is yet to get any real competition in cabin design, besides the rather unpopular petrol models of Optra and Manza.

[Poitive]

Driven! - The New Ford Fiesta Diesel (Titanium+)

No offense meant to anyone. A lot of things stated are just the personal opinion of one person (me) and please feel free to discard them. Also please bear in mind that I am 6' and kind of widely built. Please TD the car yourself, as we experience cars very differently, to form an opinion for yourself.

There are Test Drives and there are Test DrivesSo there I was, trying to squeeze in a TD, I rushed into the showroom without any prior appointment. The TD vehicle I had seen outside the showroom had started moving – someone was about to start a TD. I quickly requested the staff, made a noise and managed to get into the rear seat. The fellow took a round-the-block sort of a TD. About 3 kms of very sedate everyday driving. Was a sensible way to take a TD, I thought. He is using it as he would normally use the car on a day to day basis.


I found the rear benck,quite a comfortable place to be in, possibly because the benchmarks were pretty low. Had already seen the cabin before. The Fluidic only made the expectations lower. That said, it didn’t have as much legroom as the Verna, but felt a LOT lesser claustrophobic. Much easier to be with. The waist line felt higher (possibly because the seats were of a more appropriate height) and it made the cabin better lit. The seats seemed well designed, but as stated before only really for two and a kiddo. There was acceptable headroom too, without the seats being lowered (to uncomfortable levels as were in the Fluidic). The top of the windows seemed a tad low, but still better than the Fluidic. The ride was quite OK in the rear in the short sedate drive I had there. Didn’t really get to experience it in the rear bench anymore.

And I finally entered the hot seat!!
The ingress needed a bit of effort. Moving the seat back, getting in and then readjusting it to my body structure. The seat experience was quite the same. Not too well suited for my wide structure. After a while felt more at ease. Not ideally suited for me, but something I felt I would get quite used to after a while.

I tried various positions over the drive, but was only so comfortable in my driving position. Again, was something which didn’t seem well suited, but was something I could live with. Not as bothersome as a Cruze. Nowhere as comfortable as a Fluidic Verna or a Manza (or many others for that matter. Optra, of course was in another league for me). People with narrower bodies may like the seats quite lot, I think. However ones who drive for long periods (say 6-9 hours) may not appreciate it, as there seemed to be only one good position for one’s back. Any change in position felt uncomfortable. While such seats feel very good and sporty to start with, they may not be appreciated over time for many body types, especially for longer journeys.

The cabin on the whole felt swanky with all those buttons in the middle. Making one feel like a super techie. One which others would have to ask how to do this and that! A bit overdone for my personal taste, but something I got more used to over the drive. The line where the glass area (windows and windshield) met the ceiling was kind of low. It was in the upper reaches of my immediate field of vision. For taller people it would be a bit of a bother – something to get used to.

The left leg was seated quite comfortably on the console, but near as comfortable as the Fluidic. Overall quite spacious for it’s segment. The foot space was better than the Manza (probably the only place where Manza quite sorely lacks on space).

[Poitive]

The Wheel felt good – Finally, we get to driving it
The steering had a nice sporty feel to it. Quite liked the grip it had at about 10:10 position. But I think I may be a bit ol’ fashioned and prefer more uniform steering wheels. They allow me to be less ‘sporty’ and make every day driving a bit more easy. If I was in some sort of a street race, this one would surely feel better. The only ‘problem’ being that I rarely get into those, if at all. I quite liked the horn 'button' in the middle of the steering. It was large, though not easily accessible while holding the steering at 10:10. I like it when the horn can be pressed while still holding the steering - those big ones which come close to the outer ring. This was half way there.


I usually can work comfortably with almost all gear boxes, so they don’t really stand out for me, unless they are particularly good or particularly bad. I think this one was quite good, but don’t take my word for it.

They say “no replacement for displacement” and it was showing. The 1.5 motor felt very much like it was – a 1.5. The 1.3 MJD’s had felt a bit underpowered in comparison. The Verna and Vento clearly more eager to please. It picked up quite smoothly and was nearly effortless. I may be wrong, but it didn’t feel as free-to-rev as the MJD’s. May be something to do with a FE based tuning of the engine. So, it didn’t feel underpowered at all, however didn’t have any thrill associated with it’s power either. Pretty sedate. What many will enjoy is the linear the power delivery.

There were times, when it felt that it didn’t respond to the throttle as one would expect it to, even though it was in the power range of RPM. The power was a tad delayed, however no where near being a deal breaker; not at all.


I turned; and I turned hard
What was really impressive about it was how very composed it was over rough roads. I didn’t get a chance to try it at high speeds, but at lower speeds it was wonderful. Broken road, taking a turn and this one is totally in control. Totally. A Ford, after all.

I had had the tyre pressure checked and got it to 33psi after some running so it would equate to about 31on cold – about ideal to check for handling, I thought. It was rush hour now, and was difficult to really push it hard to check the handling and road-grip at higher speeds. It did hold very well at sharp turns around a round-about - I wasn't fast, however it was not exactly a huge radius I was turning on. The rear tyres finally did slip a bit, but I felt a strong centrifugal force around telling me that this one was pretty sure footed at turns. Ford talking again. Loved it. While it was very good at low-medium speeds, I expect it would remain good at high speeds and not brilliant.

It was obeying commands rather well. Was quite quick to respond, but nowhere in Linea territory. Probably pretty much like the Vento.

I really did like the composure of the car. Something so sorely missed in the Verna.

Was the car telling me something?
After the experience with the Linea, this one felt clearly disappointing. The steering feedback was nowhere comparable. Yes, it is an EPS, but I wasn’t really as impressed as the others. What I did like however was how soft and easy it would become at lower speeds and the limited feedback would improve at higher speeds. That said, it may be more practical a steering to be with on your normal runs than the Linea, which was ‘too sporty’ for my everyday drives. So it was a more practical sorta steering feel than an all-out driver oriented one.

Given the handling, the ride was praiseworthy. For it’s size (am excluding the Optra from my mind here, as it really is a size bigger) it was soaking up the roads rather well. It also remained very well composed at double digit speeds.

And then it was humming something in my ears; rather my whole body
It was making a disconcerting low frequency humming sound, vibrations rather, at various speeds. It was inconsistent - there some time and not at all there at other times. The kind one would expect to feel in a low powered engine being pushed from a lower RPM. The RPM however wasn’t low and the power was being delivered quite like expected. I didn't attempt to replicate it, as then the whole TD would have been focused on this. It was very unwelcome for me. It could have been an issue with the new TD vehicle which was only a few hundred on the Odo. Possibly something to do with the car not being run-in, though I don’t really think that should be the case.


Had I seriously narrowed down to this car, this was a potential deal breaker for me, especially if I found it across multiple TDs. It really was adding to a sense of fatigue. All the NVH being controlled suddenly seemed useless. Besides the times this came up, the NVH did feel rather good. Almost Verna like. Almost, though not really there. I find all the gizmos and handling etc. pretty useless if I can’t be comfortable in the cabin to start with.

A Solid Feel
The car did feel rather solid. Very European and not at all flimsy. Probably even better than a Vento, but only just (and I am not going by the door thud). Not like the light Korean-Japanese builds. I really like that in a car. Also like the confidence in being able to go over rough roads and small humps, when one needs to. This car surely did provide that. This was a BIG plus for me.

As has been said before, it was being a bit let down by the motor, which didn’t match the sporty feel of the car, and that made it a sort of half-baked fun-to-drive car.

[Poitive]

Thoughts to sum up
Am a bit confused where this car reaches. With the benchmark of a driver’s car at this price, the motor feels a bit of a letdown (is surely not bad, but not what one would expect). The steering, besides the wheel itself, isn’t too sporty either. The space in the rear bench is lesser than most in the segment. The seats themselves are more comfortable than quite a few, however. It then seems to have only a limited appeal as a driver’s car. However since the only other car (again excluding the Optra) for the FTD factor in this segment remains the Linea. Given how people want to stay away from the Tata service, this car makes a place for itself - a bit on it’s own merit, a bit because of the failure of the competition.

But that doesn’t sum it up enough. So who is this car for?
A family which doesn’t have tall people or is a couple with a kids and wants a car with some FTD, is looking for a car with some sense of style, image and good FE. Something the neighbors will look at. Someone who does go on highways and enjoys driving and still wants to stay away from Tata service.

If there aren’t tall people pushing the seats back, the rear bench should surely feel better than the Verna. The Verna may feel better if there are more tall people, as basic legroom is something one needs – an airy feel and under-thigh support is what one can relatively do without.

And yes, in case you are going to be chauffeur driven, make sure you spend enough time in the rear bench, to feel confident, as it is the front which is significantly more impressive.

End notes: (Yes, I still haven’t finished LOL, you guys must totally bored and be pulling your hair out by now!!!)

So, should someone who enjoys driving go ahead and book this car?
Well, I would say, TD the Linea for sure. You may love it enough (with it’s agile sharp nature and raw feedback) to want to bear TASS, as and when you might need it. Also if you find the cabin of the Vento livable (it didn’t work for me at all, mainly due to my body size and expectations) that may be the car for you, as it is a lot of fun to drive too, especially given it’s motor and one isn’t dealing with TASS.

Hope this was a worthwhile read and the effort of penning this helps some. Thanks for reading.

Edit: After this lengthy writing, I wonder (again, like the Choosing the Spacious Diesel Sedans thread) if this thread is even useful and read by people, as there is almost no feedback. Neither through words, nor through thread ratings

[Highflyer]

Hi poitive,
It's an excellent write up and a large number of people must be reading it . Actually this thread would be better if merged with 'choosing 12 Lakh......' Then it would give a complete picture of this segment.
I must congratulate you for creating two wonderful threads in a very short time.
Got your PM but could't reply because I did'nt have internet at that time.