[puchoo]

yes , i am pretty clear on that - if the TD makes you happy then that should be enough , however , what i am going to do , since i have the time is get the Samara guys to give me a TD and take it on a Sunday - roads in S Delhi are pretty empty and i can get an almost straight line run from Moolchand to post the Nirulas flyover , and then throw in a few curves inside Defence colony itself!

Originally Posted by souravc

If you loved the car during TD , go ahead and buy it . This is a very extreme example, is not a representative case. I seriously don't believe that the 4 thousand odd people who are buying this car month on month are plain morons who are only enticed by the blings. No car out there is perfect , the car that you choose to buy should depend on what compromise you can live with and what factors are absolute non negotiable for you.

[F150]

Originally Posted by souravc

1.I seriously don't believe that the 4 thousand odd people who are buying this car month on month are plain morons who are only enticed by the blings.

2.No car out there is perfect , the car that you choose to buy should depend on what compromise you can live with and what factors are absolute non negotiable for you.

1.I can show you so many people at my work place, who just own a car for the sake of owning a car. They have no clue about ride quality or handling or NVH. They buy cars because they have the money.For such customers, features inside the car, all the bells and whistles are the most important. They hardly travel 300 -500 kms per month but they still need a diesel car, why ? Petrol (fuel) is expensive.
This is the type of customers hyundai caters to, and there is nothing wrong about it. There is demand and hyundai is catering to it. Examples are i20 and ANHV, going by the feedback on the forum.
2. Very well said. Priorities vary.

[nishantgandhi]

Originally Posted by puchoo

yes , i am pretty clear on that - if the TD makes you happy then that should be enough

+1 to that.

I TD'ed the usual suspect Sedans - VW Vento Petrol, Fluidic Verna and ANHC. I was surprised by the Vento (very lazy and unresponsive power delivery), the FV (no steering feedback, wobbly at high speeds) and ANHC (plain boring IMHO). I have heard good reviews about Ford Fiesta, but somehow was not keen to go for it.

And then came the surprise package - Linea TJet! I thought that a 1.4 engine would not impress me much - after driving a 1.3 Getz. But really, the turbo is addictive and one TD is enough to hook you on to buy the car! As the cliche goes - drive it to believe it. No reviews can do justice to the drive.

So a TD is essentially as important as trying out a pair of shoes/jeans before buying. It's a mandatory, no matter what the public opinion says. After all, it's your personal belonging and you need to be comfortable in it (the car, as well as shoes and jeans I mean)!

[oxyzen]

Originally Posted by F150

1.I can show you so many people at my work place, who just own a car for the sake of owning a car. They have no clue about ride quality or handling or NVH. They buy cars because they have the money.For such customers, features inside the car, all the bells and whistles are the most important.

+1 to that.

Am admi's preference
1) Should look good from outside
2) Should feel awesome from inside
3) Should have ample space
4) Loads of features to play with
5) Good A$$
6) Value for $$$

Wanna be enthusiast's preference (in addition to am admi's preference)
1) Max power on paper. (RPM Ir-relevent) (Torque: what is that?)
2) Sporty looks
3) Badge Value
4) Sports utility vehicle (one guy said I want to buy a SUV as I want to race) Courtesy to the Scorpio owners.

I have seen people walk out of showroom just because it does not have steering mounted audio control. A lot of people just fall in love with oodles of space and then turn a blind eve to everything. I am not saying they are morons. They just dont need a car to drive with passion. They need a point A to point B commuter. And according to their preference Verna makes a very good case for itself.

Originally Posted by F150

They hardly travel 300 -500 kms per month but they still need a diesel car, why ? Petrol (fuel) is expensive.

I have done some calculations to find out even with 450KM/month diesels can a decent choice (economically).
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-approach.html

[keyur]

Originally Posted by souravc

I seriously don't believe that the 4 thousand odd people who are buying this car month on month are plain morons who are only enticed by the blings.

They are not morons, but that does not mean that they know all the aspects. The most standard aspects that any layman looks at are :

• Looks
• Economy (Price and FE)
• Service

Two other factors are:

• Delivery time
• Snob value

You will be surprised about the number of people who go to purchase a car and don't know what BHp, Torque, Turbo or for that matter even simple things like Cylinder means!
How else would you explain the sudden spurt of bookings of the Fluidic even when the vehicle was not available for a look (let alone a TD)?

If you are game, you can go and ask a few prospective buyers if they even know or plan to find out the cost of servicing, the periodicity and such other factors before they actually buy the car (or sometimes, before they actually take it for servicing)

Originally Posted by F150

1.I can show you so many people at my work place, who just own a car for the sake of owning a car. They have no clue about ride quality or handling or NVH.

I agree here. I know so many people who choose a particular car just because it has bluetooth or because it is a Honda or because it has leather seats or sometimes because the dealer gives them a lot of freebies with the car!

Originally Posted by nishantgandhi

+1 to that.

I TD'ed the usual suspect Sedans - VW Vento Petrol, Fluidic Verna and ANHC.

If you are looking at petrols, do try out the Fiesta Classic (the older model). That 1.6L petrol engine is something that will never fail to please you!
If it's a diesel, you have to try the Optra!

[nishantgandhi]

^ is the old Fiesta still available? If yes, at what price on road for the top end model? Also, does it have a turbo charger ala Linea TJet?

[GTO]

Originally Posted by keyur

What phenom has done here seems to be the logical thing to do!

Logic varies from person to person. Mine is:

- He probably lost 1.xx lakhs on the Verna sale (if not more)

- He is about to buy a car that loses 40+% in resale in the first year.

Combined, thats about 5 lakh rupees.

Now, let me tell you that with bolt-on suspension components, there is NO FIDDLING around. That's why they are called "bolt on". In fact, one of the reasons why such good suspension kits don't come as stock is the cost. Dampers like Koni FSDs cost a phenomenal amount of moolah more than the regular stuff available on sub-10 lakh rupee cars.

Thus, for 50 thousand rupees, he could have a car that handles atleast as well as other C segment sedans, and then better some. He would lose suspension warranty, sure. But:

a) His branded OEM after-market kits have warranty
b) He would ONLY lose suspension warranty. If you get a different set of dampers & springs, and tomorrow there is an engine problem, don't worry. Few manufacturers will link the two together. Worst case, you can always swap the original components back (4 hours of work).

Thus, in the simplest calculation, should he spend 50,000 and be happy with the car he already has? Or lose 5 lakhs in a year, spend time & effort selling the current car and then spend time & effort finding a new car?

He did not like the way the car felt, the handling, the power etc.. He had two options :

Power? There's nothing wrong with the Verna's power. It's one of the best in the segment.

After that, if he still did not feel satisfied, he would have been left with a new car that has lost it's warranty + a bill of all the extras!

Actually, if he still wasn't happy, he could easily swap the stock components back. Less than a 1/2 day of work. At the most, he would lose 20K of the 50K he spent on the suspension. 20K is a worthy risk, when we're talking about losing a lot more in depreciation.

Amongst all those who are in for changing the suspension, how many of you all would be happy voiding the warranty of your brand new car??

A tyre upgrade or a pro-stereo install can also void the warranty of your car. A lot of us do it. Rest of the relevant points on the matter above. You'd be surprised to know that changing springs & dampers is easier to reverse than some of the pro-audio systems you see on the forum.

In case you do come across a 1 year old Magnum in good condition and reasonable running at 4-5 lakhs off, please be kind enough to PM me as soon as possible - I will definitely be interested!

Absolutely, please look up the used car dealers I've put up in the Team-BHP Directory...they are the ones I go to when I'm looking for pre-worshipped cars. Also, do note that the reason you saw few Optras in the used market is that very few of them sell new in the first place. Just like the other depreciation disasters like the Cedia, Linea petrol and gang. Fact is, any (new) car that has bombed in the market, it always bombs in the used car market too.

And when one does come up, either the owner has to settle for whopping depreciation losses, or decide to retain the car because the resale is way too low. I understand you are an Optra owner, but facts are facts. And the Optra is a market dud, whether we are talking about a new example or used.

Noop, mob mentality exists everywhere. People follow the crowds - thats a fact! And except for a few who would really get into the specs of a vehicle, most of the customers get carried away by the looks and the gizmos.

I guess I do "really get into the specs of a vehicle" and would still buy the Fluidic Verna over the Optra. I think you should give the Indian customer a li'l more credit than you do; he is an extremely astute personality (as many car companies have discovered, after spending millions of bucks).

Like phenom, there were thousands of people who had booked the Fluidic without the test drive (most did not even see the car!)

Nothing exclusive to the Verna. 2/3 rds of all cars sold in the Indian market are sold without a test-drive. I probably know of 50 people who did test-drive the Verna, and did end up buying it BTW.

it's just a matter of wrong place, wrong time, bad luck!

Also a matter of selling beyond the "sell by" date. No car in the 10 lakh segment sells for 10 years. You have to keep your product line up "fresh" here. Else, Honda would still be selling us the 1st gen Honda City. The Optra needs to R-I-P, all the more so because it's replacement is already on sale!!

Originally Posted by keyur

Looks, Economy (Price and FE), Service

Actually, it's brand -> Looks -> Reputation (of course, with the price being in their budget and the FE being acceptable). Clearly, it's not the brand that's working against the Optra, else the Cruze would have never been the king of the 15 lakh rupee segment (that's a full segment ABOVE). It's the product, plain and simple. Buyers just don't want it, as the market data amply proves.

[Ricky_63]

Though I have not driven the Fluidic. But the name says it all !! Why did you not consider a suspension upgrade instead of selling it off ?

There is good suspension kits which might have taken the ride & handling to another level, & thus you may have kept the feature packed car without loosing too much on a suspension upgrade. Just my humble opinion.


P.S. I posted this after I read the first page.




Cheers

[Yeldo]

Originally Posted by GTO

Logic varies from person to person. Mine is:

- He probably lost 1.xx lakhs on the Verna sale (if not more)

- He is about to buy a car that loses 40+% in resale in the first year.

Combined, thats about 5 lakh rupees.

Phew, that's some cold, hard logic, Sir!

I feel that someone looking for a handler should not go for a Hyundai. People who are used to European cars find Hyundais nervous handlers. I sold my Octavia when bought my 1st generation Verna, while keeping a Laura also. The first few weeks, I had serious apprehensions about the steering and handling that felt too light after the Octavia. This even while I earlier owned the Accent DLS and the Accent CRDi.

But I recently drove the new Verna and the new Fiesta (BTW, this Ford is a rather rare specimen in our part of the country- selling very few, I reckon). I was left wondering where the 11 lacs go into in the Ford. Apart from tighter handling, what is there in it, I don't know. But the Fluidic Verna seemed to be a better car overall. I would only prefer the Vento over it in its class, or a Linea if it comes with a more powerful Diesel.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Yeldo

I feel that someone looking for a handler should not go for a Hyundai.

True. But my point is, if you already bought one, try making the most of it. If you still aren't satisfied post suspension upgrade (which is HIGHLY unlikely), then sell it off. Atleast you tried!

Second, if someone is looking for handling, and that's the reason they are selling off a Verna, an Optra is hardly the car to upgrade to. Sure, the stability is good and the car has balanced road manners. But it is hardly a corner carver. Cars like the Linea (especially T-Jet) & Fiesta blow it away in terms of handling.

[keyur]

Originally Posted by nishantgandhi

^ is the old Fiesta still available? If yes, at what price on road for the top end model? Also, does it have a turbo charger ala Linea TJet?

This is OT, but trying to help anyways. The old Fiesta goes by Fiesta Classic. Here is the price sheet for Pune.

[NoRules]

Originally Posted by GTO

an Optra is hardly the car to upgrade to. Sure, the stability is good and the car has balanced road manners. But it is hardly a corner carver.

I think you are being unfair to the Optra. For someone who was scared to take a turn on the highway at 80-90 kmph speed in a Baleno and has taken the same turn at speed over 140 kmph in Optra easily, I would say Optra is a good corner carver.

You keep saying Optra depreciates by over 40% in the very first year - then how come I could not find even one car in my long search which was less than 3-4 years old and sold for less than 5.25 to 6.5 lakhs? Trust me, I did look for a pre-owned car, based on your own thread of the pre-worshipped Honda.

I personally believe in an individual's choice and never berated any car just because I did not like it because my parameters of choosing a car will not be same as another person but this generalization of Optra being a dud is not fair at all. Before I spent 10.63 lakhs on my Optra I spoke to several users personally and also had discussion with the service centre guys whom I knew personally and trusted to give me an honest feedback and the feedback I got was that it is a fantastic car if you are not particular about being the latest in features, not performance.

After driving my Optra for over 3000 kms I can personally vouch for Optra being a good car which delivers on what it promises - stability, power, comfort.

If a one year old Optra is available @40-50% of the new car price, please let me know: I have friends who would buy it immediately.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by NoRules

After driving my Optra for over 3000 kms I can personally vouch for Optra being a good car which delivers on what it promises - stability, power, comfort.

If a one year old Optra is available @40-50% of the new car price, please let me know: I have friends who would buy it immediately.

No doubt the car is good, but that does not mean it can't be a sales dud. GTO is not saying the car is bad, hes saying it didn't sell.

Oh and you won't find a 1 year old Optra in the market, who in their right minds would want to lose so much $$ and sell after a year.

[bluevolt]

The debate is not on Optra versus Verna but on TS's decision on selling a poor handling car (Verna) and getting an average handling (Optra) instead of getting a good handling car (fiesta)as the sole reason of TC's being unhappy was handling. GTO is absolutely correct on the resale value. We should understand the facts and accept them.
PS - posting from my blackberry, please pardon for errors if any!

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by keyur

I think that you should seriously TD the Verna, the Optra and a couple of boats!
My Optra's front tyre burst when I was driving at a speed of 120. The car handled so well that there was absolutely no panic and I could take my car to the side lane with ease, so calling it dangerous is incorrect! On the contrary, it feels extremely solid and you do not feel any kind of fear/instability/apprehension at speeds over 180 kmph!

Not interested.

I will pass the Verna test drive. I drove the previous generation Accent and Verna and the cars felt like they were disconnected from the road after 100Kmph. There was no life from the steering and it actually felt like it was floating. 100Kmph is the absolute safe limit for a Hyundai.

You sure are brave to take a car like the Optra to 180Kmph. When you get an opportunity, do try the same with a Ford or a Fiat. Your perception of how a car can behave at speed or a corner will change forever.

A good driver can control a blow out well. The difference is how each car feels when the same happens.