[Behemoth]

Originally Posted by Mu009

VCDS! Oh ho!
1. How would you compare the Compass's movement off the line to your Yeti's? And what about post take-off?
2. While I expect the engine noise scenario on the Endeavour will improve for him somewhat with time (having read other owner's claims), assuming that he is calibrated to the Yeti, it would be a nice comparison by proxy if you were to tell me your impressions of cabin noise. I know it has been shared before (I have read it and remember it - cold start, 10 minutes, water-like sound at idle et. al.), but I am not needlessly asking you for it again - I am looking for this answer from a different perspective.

Oh, and I forgot to mention in my previous post, one other detail that I really appreciated in this thread was the fact that your dashboard rattle was attended to and solved - that is one huge area of concern to me. A rattling car would be a real let down at any price point above 15 big ones (though of course, the Ecosport in my experience is one that provides that sort of experience at a lower price point).
A small thing as it apparently may be, that was one of the things I had marked as a potential deal-breaker when going through the Compass's thread. I hope that rattle hasn't been bothering you anymore?

I hope you will regard "Thanks in advance" as goes without saying in all my posts.
*laments universal lack of tip-of-the-hat emoji*

Sure, let me address your queries one by one!
1) The Compass has a very linear acceleration compared to the Yeti. The Yeti engine was more perky and had a strong turbo pull after 1800 rpm. The Compass on the other hand has a straight linear pull between 1500-2500 rpm. After 2500 rpm I feel that the torque tapers down.
The Yeti had short gearing in 1st (Probably since it did not have 4x4 low and only had Haldex 4x4, so they tried making up for it with short gearing). The gap between 1st and 2nd gear ratios was high in the Yeti, so one would need to shift down to 1st gear on speed breakers to prevent the car from stalling.

The Compass has slightly taller gearing in 1st and 2nd. One can take speed breakers in 2nd gear on the Compass with a little practice.
On paper the Yeti had 140 bhp and 320 Nm torque and the Compass has 170 Bhp and 350 Nm torque. In real world performance the Yeti was faster than the Compass in 0-100 (I had timed mine for 10.5 sec on the Yeti), while the Compass is around 11.2 sec. The Yeti is able to sustain the torque at higher values for a more usable rev range, which makes it faster.

2) The Yeti (1st Gen) was noisy and you could hear the engine noise inside the cabin most of the time and it had a gruff note. Comparatively the Compass is far quieter and you can just about hear an engine gargle uptil 1500 rpm. The Noise when at high speeds is more from the tyres and engine noise in the Compass is quite less. The Cabin is very well acoustically insulated and damping is very good. (you can hear a huge difference when you roll down the windows).
On the Endeavour I don't have first hand experience so can't comment.
But I believe that the Compass is one of the quieter cars in this segment.
It probably would become even quieter with better tyres like Michelin Latitude tour HP (which should be better than the existing Firestones)

3) The Dashboard rattle is 95% resolved in my case, but varying heat levels (car parked in sun) can cause it to reappear occasionally. In my case I tend to do a lot of tinkering myself to fix these things!

My current bugbear which I need a good solution for is the Lighting upgrade - I have done it to the max possible with the Halogens same at stock wattage, but I am just itching for something like HID as that will be a significant improvement. I even tried 3 pairs of different LED bulbs, but none of them worked properly and did not have the correct beam pattern.
On the Trailhawk, it should come by default with HID bulbs so should not be an issue for you.

Regards,
Behemoth

[Mu009]

1. Thanks. That helps a lot - a lot of practical details there. I don't know how much difference there'll be on the Trailhawk's 9 sp auto. So gearing might not apply as is. The Australian/European reviews are the ones I'm looking at for that since that's where one gets the diesel Trailhawk (the US get a never praised 2.4l Petrol engine ONLY).
That said, the performance to engine speed ought to be the same. But wouldn't you say the Torque band is a little narrow then? Of course that would depend on how sharply it tapers off after 2.5k. But with this kind of a diesel, i'd hope for a decent torque surge up to 3k. Though I suppose one can't have everything - performance is praised by just about everyone, and fuel economy numbers on this thread are wallet-soothing.

And yes, the way the power is delivered is paramount - there certainly isn't much of a difference in weight between a Yeti 4x4 and a Compass 4x2. I don't think the aerodynamic advantage of the Yeti (if any) would be much either.
But the Trailhawk diesel auto is supposed to do the 0-60 dash in about 9-odd seconds. Not bad, I suppose.

2. That's why I was using the 2 experiences - with the Yeti as a baseline, I can build some castles in the air comparing the Compass and Endeavour. But it sounds positive in my book (however flawed my metric).

The sound deadening measures on the compass do seem promising - under bonnet insulation sheet, acoustic windshield, triple seal doors.

And yes, a tyre change is on the top of my list - those firestones have a bad reputation everywhere. Only the Australians seem to be praising the stock tyres on the Trailhawk as theirs comes with a different brand. This is one area where I will not compromise (and will factor in purchase cost) - so many are content to pay for cosmetic mods but reluctant to pay for upgrading the only points of contact which they actually have with the road. I just hope I can get someone to change them for a set of Yokohama Geolander AT-S.
I've been looking at a whole bunch of tyres as well, and these seem to be the safest bet, especially as there are positive reviews from reliable quarters in India as well. With conditions as they are around here, foreign reviews can only tell you so much - their calibration is just so different. What constitutes a badly paved road for them for example, is laughable for us.
I've heard good things about Michelin's too, but unfortunately, tyres aren't reviewed and compared as religiously as cars.

3. Yes, even with the Activa at home, I had to open up the fairing and pad it up myself. I'm open to try such fixes with anything since I like DIY and rattle-free-ness is a priority, but it's a little irritating when you spend so much and still have to do it yourself. India, I suppose.

Yes, I was quite disappointed to see just how many people were disappointed with the headlights and how jeep's variant positioning made getting HIDs somewhat prohibitive. But what's really bad is how poor the stock illumination is and the almost ineffectual upgraded they offered.
Personally of course, as you rightly say, I wouldn't be bothered with a Trailhawk, but I like to think we're all in this together - after all, what else makes us share quite so much quite so freely and with such relish?

Anyhow, one more thing - what about the AC? Now that you've had a chance to experience it in the full blazing summer and had the software niggled ironed out, you will have really gauged how good it is. One hopes for a really quick and silent chiller at this price point. How long does it take to get things down to say, 26C on 44 degree afternoon?
(I know I keep harping on about the price point, but please bear in mind I'm thinking of the Trailhawk)

Cheers!

[Behemoth]

Originally Posted by Mu009

And yes, a tyre change is on the top of my list - those firestones have a bad reputation everywhere. Only the Australians seem to be praising the stock tyres on the Trailhawk as theirs comes with a different brand. This is one area where I will not compromise (and will factor in purchase cost) - so many are content to pay for cosmetic mods but reluctant to pay for upgrading the only points of contact which they actually have with the road. I just hope I can get someone to change them for a set of Yokohama Geolander AT-S.
I've been looking at a whole bunch of tyres as well, and these seem to be the safest bet, especially as there are positive reviews from reliable quarters in India as well. With conditions as they are around here, foreign reviews can only tell you so much - their calibration is just so different. What constitutes a badly paved road for them for example, is laughable for us.
I've heard good things about Michelin's too, but unfortunately, tyres aren't reviewed and compared as religiously as cars.

Anyhow, one more thing - what about the AC? Now that you've had a chance to experience it in the full blazing summer and had the software niggled ironed out, you will have really gauged how good it is. One hopes for a really quick and silent chiller at this price point. How long does it take to get things down to say, 26C on 44 degree afternoon?
(I know I keep harping on about the price point, but please bear in mind I'm thinking of the Trailhawk)

Cheers!

On the Tyres my first recommendation (in the stock size) would be Michelin Latitude Tour HP as these are good tyres for a 80 (city) : 20 (Offroad) usage pattern.
The Yoko Geolandar AT-S are good for 50:50 usage and will be noisier than the stock tyres due to their aggressive tyre patterns.
For 80:20 Usage the Yoko Geolandar HT-S would be more suitable.
My last tyres on the Yeti were Falken Wildpeak which were quite good and less noisy that the Yoko HT-S.
That should also be a good choice for the Compass, for 80:20 Usage, if available in the right size.

If you are going to go for hardcore offroading usage, something like BF Goodrich or Maxxis Mud Tyres might be more appropriate, though you would have to scale up the size and put in a lift kit for them!

There are some interesting discussions on upsizing tyres on the new compass here:
http://www.myjeepcompass.com/forums/...s-2nd-gen.html

On the AC, it is fine now and for a parked car in sun, if you vent the hot air by opening all the windows / doors first, it is able to bring the cabin temperature to around 26C within 3-4 min, which is comparable to my Laura. What really spoilt me was my Honda Civic's AC which was an absolute chiller and would be able to bring the cabin temperature down within 2 min. That was a really great AC! I still miss my Civic AT, but the mileage on Petrol in that was just atrocious at 6-7 which is why it became unviable to drive and we replaced it with our Laura (which gives a mileage of 18-20 on diesel!)

[Mu009]

You are a veritable fount of information! It's great that you have such a breadth of experience on the tyres as well.

Thanks to my willfully somewhat curious position, my city usage will be near zero. Only when heading to B-roads/Highways for pleasure trips/excursions.
Any purchase I make will be almost purely recreational and a "Expedition Vehicle". So naturally, highway manners of the tyres are also important. But there'll be frequent B-road driving, dirt trails and greenlaning for shorter more frequent trips.

So I don't think the Michelins will be the right ones for me.
But I am surprised that the Geolander AT-S's will be noisier than the Firestones - I understood that the Firestones were terrible and the new AT-S's rather good on the noise front, so I was under the misapprehension that even with their offroad bias they might be quieter than the Firestones.

On the other hand, it is good to hear about the Fallken Wildpeaks being decent - that's what the compass is shod with in both North America and Australia. But they too were H/T. So that would mean that they'd be quieter ones than the Yoko HT-S's, going by your experience. However, while they were praised as being a decent compromise in Australia, they were cited as a big limiting factor offroad (coupled with TC and the abysmal engine the Compass comes with in the US) in US reviews.

Much confusion and food for thought here for me - picking the right tyres isn't going to be an easy task.

And also, while I'll go through the link anyway, upsizing is not for me - warranty and electronics calibration issues are too off-putting and outweigh the benefits.

Likewise, I wouldn't bother with a lift either - and the added wear on components isn't something I'm keen on either. Also I feel that the Trailhawk's ground clearance is quite high in stock form - about as much as most bigger SUVs without air suspension - which coupled with its relatively smaller wheelbase makes for sufficient ADR angles for me (for now).

And as far as heavy mud-plugging and Goodrichs go, I am not entirely convinced about either "Trailhawks" or Monocoques (given the digging I've done so far).

And so the AC isn't something killer like a Ford then. Ah well, you can't have everything I suppose - and I've picked up smart enough AC habits over the years for it to not be a problem. Again, was just trying to ascertain how much luxury there might be on offer.

[Behemoth]

Originally Posted by Mu009

You are a veritable fount of information! It's great that you have such a breadth of experience on the tyres as well.

So I don't think the Michelins will be the right ones for me.
But I am surprised that the Geolander AT-S's will be noisier than the Firestones - I understood that the Firestones were terrible and the new AT-S's rather good on the noise front, so I was under the misapprehension that even with their offroad bias they might be quieter than the Firestones.

On the other hand, it is good to hear about the Fallken Wildpeaks being decent - that's what the compass is shod with in both North America and Australia. But they too were H/T. So that would mean that they'd be quieter ones than the Yoko HT-S's, going by your experience. However, while they were praised as being a decent compromise in Australia, they were cited as a big limiting factor offroad (coupled with TC and the abysmal engine the Compass comes with in the US) in US reviews.

In that case, looks like the best option will be 225/65 R17 tyres for you. This is the closest size to stock which other users have put into their Compass in other markets without any modifications or lift kits required. In this size, you have plenty of offroad tyre options like the Yoko Geolandar AT-S available which will work for you. With the increase in aspect ratio, the overall difference in circumference is 3.2% and around an increase in GC by 11 mm (which is even better). It should also increase the ride comfort due to higher aspect tyres.
In my Yeti, I had used 215/65 R16 tyres instead of the stock 215/60 R16 for more than 70K kms and did not face any challenges and in fact the ride quality had improved substantially with the tyre size increase.
In the Compass too, I expect there should not be any issues.

[Mu009]

The trailhawk comes with 215/65 R17 in the US and 225/60 R17 in Australia.
225/65 R17 would mean a .3" increase in sidewall over the former and .5" over the latter.
I suspect we'll be getting the latter. That would be toeing the line a little bit with the "3% is about okay" thumb rule. But yes, your own experience with the Yeti and others having upsized even more on newer vehicles with similar electronics do make it seem like it won't pose a problem. And the benefits of .5" sidewall would be much more than such a seemingly small number suggests.

But the problem with tyre swaps is that one must do them immediately (unless one has infinite reserves), and in that time I would not be able to gauge the service station's inclination to let that aspect slide when warranty issues crop up.

Boils my blood really - so-called off-road capable vehicles across the board, and customers who might actually want to use these vehicles for their intended purpose can't move an inch without warranty worries.

Oh, and more thing - if you could measure the decibel level inside the cabin, say at 100 and 120 kph whenever you're on the highway with a passenger next, that'd be great (a simple smartphone app such as sound meter could do it). That would be a great way to gain some objectivity around the whole sound insulation question.

[DJM]

Hello BHpean,
I am planning to get a Compass.
Please share your views which trim to go for.
Below are the inputs for your valuable thoughts:
Presently own- Honda Civic 1.8 manual transmission 2011, Ford Icon 1.3 Flair, each one has done 1lac+ kms.
Love MT any day, not a fan of AT
Like petrol cars over diesel cars, but wouldn't mind a diesel one.
Monthly average travel, 2000 kms city traffic+1000 km express way traffic.
Off-Roading possibility is rare, may be once in a year.

Now guide me which trim to go for.
Thanks in advance!

[Behemoth]

Originally Posted by DJM

Hello BHpean,
I am planning to get a Compass.
Please share your views which trim to go for.
Below are the inputs for your valuable thoughts:
Presently own- Honda Civic 1.8 manual transmission 2011, Ford Icon 1.3 Flair, each one has done 1lac+ kms.
Love MT any day, not a fan of AT
Like petrol cars over diesel cars, but wouldn't mind a diesel one.
Monthly average travel, 2000 kms city traffic+1000 km express way traffic.
Off-Roading possibility is rare, may be once in a year.

Now guide me which trim to go for.
Thanks in advance!

The most value for money variant of the Compass is probably the Longitude (O) which gets most of the good features of the Compass.
You should definitely get a diesel MT as your monthly running is high and the diesel will save you a lot of money over a petrol version in terms on running.
4x2 should be fine for your usage and it would not be worth buying a 4x4 as your offroad usage is very low.

[malgudi]

Hi Behemoth,

If possible can you please upload the pics for headlight throw both with low beam and high beam and with and without fog lamps.

Also any recent servicing that you got done and the experience, things done and cost?

[Behemoth]

Originally Posted by malgudi

Hi Behemoth,

If possible can you please upload the pics for headlight throw both with low beam and high beam and with and without fog lamps.

Also any recent servicing that you got done and the experience, things done and cost?

Sure will try to take some pics over the weekend. The beam pattern with the 9011 bulbs is exactly same as the stock bulbs but light output is around 40-50% better.
On the service costs I have covered only 10k kms so far and when I had gotten my first service done at 5k kms the cost IIRC was around 2000 rupees, which was mainly wheel alignment and balancing and lubrication.
I also got my cabin air filter changed in a separate visit at around 8k kms as it had gotten choked with dust. Cost for that was around 500 rupees including labor.

[malgudi]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

I also got my cabin air filter changed in a separate visit at around 8k kms as it had gotten choked with dust. Cost for that was around 500 rupees including labor.

On a new car the cabin air filter getting choked? Have not faced this on any of the cars that I know of in my friends circle.

Do share the pics over the weekend.

[Behemoth]

Originally Posted by malgudi

On a new car the cabin air filter getting choked? Have not faced this on any of the cars that I know of in my friends circle.

Do share the pics over the weekend.

Yes my cabin filter was choked as I travel on quite dusty roads to our farm once a month. The cabin filter is supposed to be replaced at every 15k kms but might make sense to have it replaced more frequently in dusty cities.

[Olympal]

I see Fiat's approach to selling the Compass similar to what they did with the Palio in the early 1990s.
Then too they had garnered excellent response in the form of bookings but lost customer goodwill due to inconsistent quality and unprofessional service outlets.
I had bought a Palio then but suffered unending misery due to parts shortage, untrained mechanics and exorbitant pricing of service and spares.
A friend recently bought a Compass and the car AC packed up within 2 months. The car was with the service outlet for over 3 weeks as they were waiting for some part to arrive. He is facing regular niggles such as rattles coming from the dashboard, noise from the underbody when driven over poor roads and the reverse camera blanking out.
I was planning to buy a Compass but have put my plans on hold till I read more opinions of customer satisfaction.
Hope Fiat lives up to expectations this time around.

[Behemoth]

So yesterday I got down to some pending requests and here are my results. Here are images of the nighttime headlights in both low beam and high beam as requested. (Pardon the poor image quality of my Samsung A7!)

The second request was for boot measurements below the parcel shelf. So here they are (in cm) and as per my calculations the actual boot space is only 312 Lts (excluding the small niches next to the wheel wells, which could be maybe 10L each but are not usable really for anything other than small knick knacks). I feel the Jeep is showing the boot space wrongly as 438L as the actual measurements show otherwise.

[ank.nsit]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

... So here they are (in cm) and as per my calculations the actual boot space is only 312 Lts (excluding the small niches next to the wheel wells, which could be maybe 10L each but are not usable really for anything other than small knick knacks). I feel the Jeep is showing the boot space wrongly as 438L as the actual measurements show otherwise.

Maybe Jeep is including the spare wheel area as well in the boot space, which it definitely should not.

Not to question your measurements, but 312L figure seems too low. My dzire has ~300L boot space n jeep no doubt has more space than that.

Maybe Maruti also included the wheel well area in its 300L figure.