[COUNSEL]

THAR was displayed at the Auto Expo in Bangy.

Water drain holes at the driver side floor.



Uneven finish of door pad.


The tail gate refuses to open when I saw in showroom. Even in the Auto Expo it didn't open!! As someone said in the Thar thread, the tail gate locking mechanism needs a re-design!

[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Shankar ji paisa bolta hai! Got the drift?
PS- Thank God, Khan Saab and Tejas did this review, or else this thread would also have been flooded with OKBJ, FFRA, Solid Axle, MRCBT and likes :-

You have all the money to throw away stock tyres and fit it with Mudzillas and stuff, then why not a Sump guard made of 3-4 mm thick gauge steel? Is it that costly?

Spike,

Why not make the Thar an amalgamation of your parts bin instead?

I shall take
1. NGCS Chassis.
2. Solid axles both front and rear.
3. 57" OKJB front (available) and 53" FFRA (also available).
4. Mdi Engine and gearbox
5. MM550 Cabin.
6. Power Steering.

The rest are mostly parts that need to be changed anyway. We can build our own Thar and be happy about it as well.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by 2theMax

a.) Lifestyle weekend vehicle - Can see no utility for a lifestyle vehicle, No AC, Hard top, no storage or cubby holes, can't leave the vehicle for a moment (Soft top), can't use the parking lots, no safety factor for backseat riders... does not qualify as a Lifestyle vehicle for me.

@2theMAX:

This is not a 100% Lifestyle vehicle, only the powertrain is Lifestyle. So, I guess, if you can exclude the ommissions, it is a 60 to 70% percent Lifestyle. Mahindra has just created a new category called "Almost Lifestyle". You can take the "Allmost Lifestyle" vehicle and customise it after tearing up your warranty booklet.

Originally Posted by 2theMax

Can the guru's enlighten me what would I be losing if I get a run down 540 and build it from scratch with the CRDe engine ? IMO I would be saving atleast 3 Lakhs.
Pls correct me..

I am no guru, but I can tell you that it is not worth effort unless you have a very expert mechanic and good source Parts. Now that the MDI is available, it is best to buy the MDI 4x4 rather than build from scratch.

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

@4x4addict
Can't a traditional jeeper also want non rusted parts, properly finished interiors and travel in comfort in an AC? Or just to prove that he's a man he has to travel in a rust bucket in the heat with a jagged dash poking him all the time?

All jeepers should be able to get properly finished interiors, but I was saying that people who have been around jeeps have seen worse so they maybe more forgiving about the Thar's interiors. However, this will not be the case with a person who has mostly driven newer cars. They will be quite appalled by the interior fit and finish.

These two pictures describe my feeling right now. The off-roader I wanted/expected and the lifestyle vehicle that was launched.

[pjbiju]

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Biju, I have no intentions of giving any excuse to anyone. I just spoke the truth, if that is taken as an excuse, please pardon me.

Spike :-)

Spike, I did not mean it that way. I mean you guys worked hard to bring us the Thar. But I think you worked under a lot of restrictions. So what I meant is that you (or BD) do not have to give excuses for the mistakes done by other teams in M&M. But yes, if you guys had all the budget and time and a free hand, then it would have been a different story.

I am just wondering how in the world could PG or AM could look at this vehicle and say, take it to the market. How I wish if they had this vehicle close to their hearts as you guys had.

p.s. My son was bugging my wife the whole day "to get the Thar". He woke up this morning asking me "Did you book the Thar?"

[Sudarshan]

IMHO

the pricing has been really messed up

pricing of a lifestyle vehicle put to a basic looking & finished Jeep .

Expectations are too much ( specially about fit & finish ) Only because of the pricing .

All Issues regarding fit & finish would have gone reasonably ignored IF pricing had been right ( ? )

M&M you have given a really ' KILLER PRICE' for 'this ' Thar.

Sudarshan

PS I seriously hope that this vehicle which has a huge potential ' Survives '

[Cyrus43]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

I too was shocked when the needle reached empty and we required an urgent splash and dash on our way to Mahape.

The following i attribute to the poor FE:
- Test vehicle. In my personal experience, the test cars always run rich so that the customer experiences less vibrations and better performance.
- why i suspect the above? The crawl in 2wd was surprising! No matter what i did to stall the vehicle, it just refused to stall on letting go of the clutch. She would crawl.
- we did really push her on and off the road and many times she idled when we examined obstacles. So let not this be a test of true efficiency.

Do not make assumptions about how much fuel efficiency you got. You need to do a proper FE run for that. Ask someone who works in an auto magazine how it is done and they will tell you how strenuous it is. Ask me how it is for that matter, and I will tell you how difficult it is.

There are some statements about poor build quality etc. How many of you have seen how the build quality of a bolero is?

Anyways, the other point I would like to make is that the whole IFS not being able to cope with the strain is a speculation. If the Thar can pass through Belgian Pave Tests without a glitch (which I presume it has at the track....spikey your comment on this please) I dont think there should be much of an issue. And for all those who were there at EXAMM and AKC, you have seen how dad went about hammering the thar everywhere. Did anything break?? Now someone will say that it was some special components that that particular thar was using......What? titanium Suspension components??

Yes, I agree that there are several parts that are not perfect when there is a consumer who will spend his hard earned money on a car, however, if the whole Mahindra That team was not on teamBHP, we would have let this whole thing go long ago. So why the exception??

Again, I am not saying negative reviews are bad, they are good, Better than the positive ones actually as they tell you what is wrong and what needs to be redone, but some people harping on the same point for the three hundredth time is getting a bit lame and uncalled for.

@Arka,Most of the things you have asked are really a little over what you can expect from a normal manufacturing unit like Mahindra.

Anyways,
I spoke to dad yesterday and asked him about our Thar. The reply was positive... Hope we get it before I come back from England!! Dad..... MH 01 P 8300 all over again... but this time WE KEEP IT!!!

[nitrous]

What is this Shiny SILVER Thing?

http://www.team-bhp.com/carpics/mahi...ah-thar-12.jpg

ECU, Arka. Welcome to the club.

[discoverwild]

Hi Cyrus,

With due respect to you and your father, if Mahindra is a normal manufacturing unit, then so are Tata, Maruti, Hyundai and so on.

If Tata can consistently improve their models over the years (they have been in the field only 12 years), What's stopping Mahindra from improving the interiors in over 25 years of MM540s?

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Cyrus, the thar came from kandivali with a full tank of 60litres. We finished it at approx 350kms on the odo. Refilled 10litres. Off roaded exactly for 30 min at mahape and drove back 35kms and finished the 10litres (needle came back to where it was before refuelling). Do the math.

[gthang]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

Do not make assumptions about how much fuel efficiency you got. You need to do a proper FE run for that. Ask someone who works in an auto magazine how it is done and they will tell you how strenuous it is. Ask me how it is for that matter, and I will tell you how difficult it is.

There are some statements about poor build quality etc. How many of you have seen how the build quality of a bolero is?

For an average consumer, FE is top up to top up divided by distance covered. When you see the fuel gauge drop rapidly, it means poor FE. Dont need an "Auto Magazine tester" or any complicated test to prove it.

Have you seen a TVS King autorickshaw? Better plastics and finish.

[Cyrus43]

As I said, there is most definately things that can be done to improve the Thar like the fit and finish etc etc. My statement about the "normal manufacturing unit" was regarding people wanting everything and still not wanting to pay for it. And IMHO, the gypsy isnt that great in fit and finish as well. But lets not digress shall we.

There was a comment a few pages ago about the bumpers breaking and how this wasnt the case in the EXAMM vehicle. the EXAMM vehicle had no bumpers on it. (thanks for brining this to my notice Abhi)

We could go on and on about the issues of the Thar, and yes, there certainly are some, but then is there a car that doesnt??

We all grumble about cars, I grumble about most Tata and hyundai products as I am biased about them. Look beyond your biases guys. There is a silver lining.

[Sudarshan]

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

Cyrus, the thar came from kandivali with a full tank of 60litres. We finished it at approx 350kms on the odo. Refilled 10litres.

& the tank was full ?
OMG was it a printing /typing mistake ?


anyways on a lighter note

There will be new IFS,( for Thar ) specially for BHPians , ( fitted by MM ) have a look



Sudarshan

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Originally Posted by pjbiju

Spike, I did not mean it that way.
p.s. My son was bugging my wife the whole day "to get the Thar". He woke up this morning asking me "Did you book the Thar?"

Lovely!

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

If the Thar can pass through Belgian Pave Tests without a glitch (which I presume it has at the track....spikey your comment on this please) I dont think there should be much of an issue. Now someone will say that it was some special components that that particular thar was using......What? titanium Suspension components??

LOL! good one Cyrus! Yes we have Belgian pave tracks, the Thar has done several hundred cycles without any so called "CV joint failures".

I remember someone telling me this story:- An Engineer from Lotus happened to visit the torture tracks to see how vehicles are tested for durability. After observing for some time he said "Is this the way you test your vehicles"

Spike

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

Do not make assumptions about how much fuel efficiency you got. You need to do a proper FE run for that. Ask someone who works in an auto magazine how it is done and they will tell you how strenuous it is. Ask me how it is for that matter, and I will tell you how difficult it is

As far as i know FE was not in the list of things when the test drive agenda was finalized. It was just an observation that happened. And please dont kid me with how difficult it is to measure, any tom dick and harry with some common sense can do a FE test accurate to atleast a km or two. It is not rocket science!

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

There are some statements about poor build quality etc. How many of you have seen how the build quality of a bolero is?

I have right from version 1 till date. Milecruncher owns one of the current gen, maybe he can comment further.

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

Anyways, the other point I would like to make is that the whole IFS not being able to cope with the strain is a speculation. If the Thar can pass through Belgian Pave Tests without a glitch (which I presume it has at the track....spikey your comment on this please) I dont think there should be much of an issue. And for all those who were there at EXAMM and AKC, you have seen how dad went about hammering the thar everywhere. Did anything break?? Now someone will say that it was some special components that that particular thar was using......What? titanium Suspension components??

Can you or for that matter anyone from R&D team give it in writing that it never went back to surgeons table after the event and all the so called readings were within permissible limit?

By the way i have been holding back on this. Did that Thar complete all the obstacles on day 1, 2 and 3?? Can someone assure me that Thar was as stock as a showroom Thar and was running no trick bits including MLD, same engine and remaps??? Lets really not get into that now.

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

So why the exception??

I dont see any exception, I still remember how much of debate GTO had with me when i said build quality of swift is not that bad lol

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

but some people harping on the same point for the three hundredth time is getting a bit lame and uncalled for.

As a consumer we have all the rights to do that. You would also if your bumblebee panels cut your finger while riding it.

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

I spoke to dad yesterday and asked him about our Thar. The reply was positive...
====
but this time WE KEEP IT!!!

Advance wishes on the new buy, its a great car and great adventure tourer which can do quite a bit of offroading also

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

Lovely!


LOL! good one Cyrus! Yes we have Belgian pave tracks, the Thar has done several hundred cycles without any so called "CV joint failures".

I remember someone telling me this story:- An Engineer from Lotus happened to visit the torture tracks to see how vehicles are tested for durability. After observing for some time he said "Is this the way you test your vehicles"

Spike

Is it because the test track is not harsh enough?!

Guys chill, no one is saying its a bad 4x4, but dont try to make it something which it is not.

[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by Cyrus43

As I said, there is most definately things that can be done to improve the Thar like the fit and finish etc etc. My statement about the "normal manufacturing unit" was regarding people wanting everything and still not wanting to pay for it. And IMHO, the gypsy isnt that great in fit and finish as well. But lets not digress shall we.

There was a comment a few pages ago about the bumpers breaking and how this wasnt the case in the EXAMM vehicle. the EXAMM vehicle had no bumpers on it. (thanks for brining this to my notice Abhi)

We could go on and on about the issues of the Thar, and yes, there certainly are some, but then is there a car that doesnt??

We all grumble about cars, I grumble about most Tata and hyundai products as I am biased about them. Look beyond your biases guys. There is a silver lining.

Hi Cyrus,
We are not biased. It is the love for the jeep that most of the folks here are up in arms. Too bad, Mahindra doesn't want to listen to them.

Having had the Gypsy King for 9 years, except for the small seats and the lack of space upfront, I have been pretty happy about it for 127000 kms or so. Never had a breakdown other than a torn radiator hose once and a broken leafspring.

I have never seen so many ill-fitting parts and visible nuts and bolts anywhere other than the Thar, not even in the Sumo. Heck, not even in an autorickshaw.